what so bad about socialism

[EdwardBaiamonte]

.
Please provide CONCRETE examples of Products/Services from China that prove your Best Price/Quality along the Poor, Middle Class and Wealthy spectrum.

Apple products are made in China; Apple is the biggest company in human history!!

 

[bripat9643]

Dear, 1929 proved capitalism fails .

why capitalism and not liberalism since Hoover was a liberal???

dear, only those who lack True faith in Capitalism, shill.

1929 proved liberalism does not work since country and Hoover/FDR were liberals.

"We didn't admit it at the time, but practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."

Rexford Guy Tugwell, Roosevelt Advisor

Prescience, dear? Maybe they knew to lose their faith in True capitalism. Unlike the Right, today.

Hoover was Conservative.
Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

Hoover was a liberal Republican. He endorsed all the same economic fallacies that FDR believed in.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

why capitalism and not liberalism since Hoover was a liberal???

dear, only those who lack True faith in Capitalism, shill.

1929 proved liberalism does not work since country and Hoover/FDR were liberals.

"We didn't admit it at the time, but practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."

Rexford Guy Tugwell, Roosevelt Advisor

Prescience, dear? Maybe they knew to lose their faith in True capitalism. Unlike the Right, today.

Hoover was Conservative.
Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

Hoover was a liberal Republican. He endorsed all the same economic fallacies that FDR believed in.

well, lets look on the bright side. the Hoover/FDR Great Depression and World War only lasted 16 years and only killed 60 million. It could have been worse.

 

[bripat9643]

The US didn't need to be riddled with people dying of starvation.

True, that's why the policies of Hoover and FDR were so idiotic.

 

[bripat9643]

The only reason many people DON'T starve is due to the Socialist programs that Conservatives hate so much.

100% stupid and liberal as always.

When Clinton eliminated "welfare as we know it" by making it workfare fully half decided they were no long poor.

See why we say liberalism is based in pure ignorance?? Is any other conclusion possible??

I have destroyed you twice already, Dr. Dementia.
All you do is reiterate the same old discredited bullshit.
You are as intellectually shallow as a sidewalk pond on a hot summer day.
Is that your book on Amazon that gets 2 out of 5 stars?

It's only "discredited" within your small circle of commie subversives.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The US didn't need to be riddled with people dying of starvation.

liberal, soviet, and Red Chinese policies caused 120 million to slowly starve to death.

 

[danielpalos]

dear, only those who lack True faith in Capitalism, shill.

1929 proved liberalism does not work since country and Hoover/FDR were liberals.

"We didn't admit it at the time, but practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."

Rexford Guy Tugwell, Roosevelt Advisor

Prescience, dear? Maybe they knew to lose their faith in True capitalism. Unlike the Right, today.

Hoover was Conservative.
Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

Hoover was a liberal Republican. He endorsed all the same economic fallacies that FDR believed in.

well, lets look on the bright side. the Hoover/FDR Great Depression and World War only lasted 16 years and only killed 60 million. It could have been worse.

it all started when capitalism failed and had to be bailed out; just bad management. that is all.

 

[danielpalos]

The US didn't need to be riddled with people dying of starvation.

liberal, soviet, and Red Chinese policies caused 120 million to slowly starve to death.

dear, that was soo, last millennium; now, the Best forms of Socialism in the entire World, even provide steak and lobster for the least wealthy.

Only the Right likes to keep harping on the past while repeating historical mistakes.

 

[Andylusion]

I have destroyed you twice already

please show best example or admit you lack the IQ to be here.

As I have already asked you at least 5 or 6 times already in the last two weeks...
Please provide CONCRETE examples of Products/Services from China that prove your Best Price/Quality along the Poor, Middle Class and Wealthy spectrum.

Quality is a trade off of cost. Obviously if you pay workers less money, you can divert that funding to improved quality of the product. And equally, if you are forced to pay workers more money, then you by necessity, have to divert less money to the quality of the product.

You see this in the fast food industry today. As the price of labor goes up, the serving sizes go down. That continues until people are willing to pay more money for a larger serving, and then the sizes go up with price.

Both of those are "large" drinks. One was before 2007, when the minimum wage started going up. And the other was after 2009.

I think you can figure out which is which.

Now when you have a competitive market, and Unionized wages can't adjust with the market, the result is that something has to give. And normally if you can't cut wages to match market reality, then you have to cut something else. And generally there is nothing else to cut, but the quality.

Little over a year ago, I had to buy tires for my car. My first option, was always Goodyear. Good American company, long term history, good product, American Made. Blaw blaw blaw.

Just one problem. I always check the reviews. Looking at the tire in my price range that fit my car, I found complaint after complaint. Bad quality, problems, tires losing air, becoming crap in under 2 years. And the complaints were not limited to one single forum either. I found them everywhere.

So looking around, I found a Uniroyal tire, same fit and price range, nothing but positive reviews, not a single complaint, and..... imported.

Which would you buy? I bought the imported.

And by the way, for those of you who think that protectionism will fix this.... Obama passed a tire tax on imports for China. Did that fix everything? Nope, not at all.

Obama's Half-Truth On China Tire Tariffs

What happened was, yes tire imports from China fell. They did in fact fall. But imports from Canada, Japan, India, and Europe, all went up. By the way... even Europe.... where wages are not $2 a day.

Point being, as I've said a million times, the solution is not to try and penalize others so we prosper. The solution is to reduce regulations, taxation, and labor costs, so we can compete more. Not hope they compete less.

 

[Indeependent]

Protectionism is already at work in Germany, Japan and, to some extent, in Israel, and as soon as enough people around the world in Democratic Republics vote for Socialized Welfare programs that their Middle Class cannot sustain, such as the US, people will support a Fair Trade candidate.

 

[Andylusion]

Protectionism is already at work in Germany, Japan and, to some extent, in Israel, and as soon as enough people around the world in Democratic Republics vote for Socialized Welfare programs that their Middle Class cannot sustain, such as the US, people will support a Fair Trade candidate.

Are you crazy? Germany isn't engaging in protectionism at all. Are there a few small trade barriers here and there? Yes, and all countries have a few small trade barriers. We protection on sugar, which is why we have high-fructose corn syrup. We pay double the world price for sugar. I guess we're protectionist.

Germany has an average import tariff of 1%.... ONE PERCENT. That's protectionism in your book?

You do realize that Germany just right now announced plans to open up a Chinese based exchange in Frankfurt, right?

China and Germany strike deal to boost renminbi trading business - FT.com

That's the opposite of protectionism in my book. They were going to be buy and selling assets held in Renminbi (Chinese currency) in an exchange inside Germany. That's protectionism? That's about as free-trade as you can get.

Can you even imagine the up-roar that would happen, if you saw the ticker at the New York stock exchange, running prices in ¥ (yuan) instead of $ across the ticker? That would be insane.

Germany is not protectionist. You people are crazy when you say stuff like that.

And Japan has been in stagnant slump for years. They have only recently started coming out of it, and only recently they have dismantled most of their protectionist policies. Japan is exactly the example I would cite, of protectionism not working.

 

[Indeependent]

Germany has unions and protects their workers. Their sense of nationalism doesn't require tariff overkill.
Unlike Patriotic Americans who screw each other left and right.
Protectionism is relative to what's required.

 

[Andylusion]

Germany has unions and protects their workers. Their sense of nationalism doesn't require tariff overkill.
Unlike Patriotic Americans who screw each other left and right.
Protectionism is relative to what's required.

Entirely wrong. First off, German Unions are entirely different from US unions. German Unions actually think companies are 'good'. They provide jobs and wages, and products that make society better.

US unions attack, kill, and eat their companies, and then whine and cry that they don't have jobs. Hostess is a perfect example. The company gave them two proposals to save the company, and they rejected both, and the company closed. Everyone was laid off. A new investor bought out the bankrupt company, and re-opened it non-union, and magically..... it's profitable.... but NO UNION.

When the UAW met with the German Union leaders back in 2010, the German Unions backed away when they figured out what UAW stands for.

Moreover, the way that German Unions protect jobs is by allowing lower wages at the low end through "temporary worker status".

And the Union generally support this. Why? Because the Unions are on the board of directors at the company. They understand the numbers. They get that in a competitive market, which most exist in, you can't just drive up wages, and then be shocked you lose to other companies.

You see? The number of workers in traditional full time Unionized jobs, has dramatically fallen, while workers in part time, or temp jobs, had more than doubled.

An entry level worker at Audi in Germany, will earn just $10/hr (article was written in 2012).

Not exactly the workers Utopia some of you make it out to be. Facts trump opinion.

 

[Indeependent]

Never said it was utopia.
The only basic factor is US greed which gets fed through the Free Market and shyster Union leaders.

 

[Andylusion]

Never said it was utopia.
The only basic factor is US greed which gets fed through the Free Market and shyster Union leaders.

Really. So greed doesn't feed the thousands of massive international companies that make billions every year? Greed has no effect in Germany?

How do you know? What basis do you use your comparison? IKEA has no greed? It's not a US based company.

You people are crazy. Everything that you can't explain with your ideology, you just assign to "greed". The fictional boogy man.

 

[NoNukes]

I really thought I would have more support than this. Liberal's don't like free stuff sir, but we don't like people so suffer, and we do want everyone living outside of poverty, and enjoying there lives. I encourage anyone with very different views to please google happiest countries in the world, and see the results. Then spend some time looking that there politics, benefits, and rights... You might be surprised what you find.

View attachment 45824

I've been to every one of those countries in the past 58 years and none of them have any thing on Uncle Sams patch of ground. Any of their residents would rather be here than there.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever been outside of the United States?

 

[Andylusion]

I really thought I would have more support than this. Liberal's don't like free stuff sir, but we don't like people so suffer, and we do want everyone living outside of poverty, and enjoying there lives. I encourage anyone with very different views to please google happiest countries in the world, and see the results. Then spend some time looking that there politics, benefits, and rights... You might be surprised what you find.

View attachment 45824

I've been to every one of those countries in the past 58 years and none of them have any thing on Uncle Sams patch of ground. Any of their residents would rather be here than there.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever been outside of the United States?

Yes, I have. Been all through Europe. It's not the US. Not saying Europe is bad.... They are a million times better than India, or some other 3rd world country. But comparing the EU to the US... US. By far.

 

[Indeependent]

Germany has pretty powerful unions.
If their corporations went as hog wild using foreign labor and importing from China as the US, their level of "Protectionism" would increase in like manner.
For instance, most European nations have minimal H1-Bs whereas the US is inundated.

 

[Indeependent]

Socialism is NOT good.
Free Market Capitalism is NOT good.
Representatives who get elected because they look good on a sign is NOT good.
What I'm trying to express is that in a Democratically Elected Representative Republic, the EXTREME of either ideology in practice will lead to the diametrically opposing ideology fighting back in an irrational manner.

Since Reagan, we have been heading on a Free Market path which has left millions in a position where they think Socialism is the solution when it's not.
But people tend to REACT to their surroundings rather than analyzing and ACTING.

 

[danielpalos]

... it requires social morals for free.