What Really Happens When You Don't Separate Church and State

[jillian]

warring-against-god-human-rights-activist-and-journalist tried under sharia law

Iranian authorities are seeking a potential death sentence for a human rights activist and journalist, Shiva Nazar-Ahari, 26, for the crime of “warring against God.” Since the regime views itself as the expression of Allah’s will on Earth, Sharia law allows virtually any opposition to the government to constitute “warring against God” in the twisted logic of the Iranian regime.

She is simply charged with “Moharebeh (warring against God), conspiring and gathering to commit a crime, propaganda against the regime and harming public order.”

Nazar-Ahari was first arrested shortly after Iran’s heavily contested June 2009 presidential election. She was then re-arrested in December while on her way to the religious city of Qom for the funeral of dissident cleric Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri.

Despite efforts in the United States to lower the wall of separation, Iran continues to give the world a continuing lesson in the perils of intermingling faith and government.

Warring Against God: Human Rights Activist and Journalist Tried Under Sharia Law JONATHAN TURLEY

 

[California Girl]

If a 'right wing' member of the forum had posted this, truthmatters would be asking us why we hate Islam and telling us we're encouraging Muslim fundamentalists to attack us, that we want a 'war with Islam'. Funny old world.

 

[jillian]

If a 'right wing' member of the forum had posted this, truthmatters would be asking us why we hate Islam and telling us we're encouraging Muslim fundamentalists to attack us, that we want a 'war with Islam'. Funny old world.

you know, i actually think this is a topic worth exploring. TM doesn't much interest me on any level.

 

[California Girl]

If a 'right wing' member of the forum had posted this, truthmatters would be asking us why we hate Islam and telling us we're encouraging Muslim fundamentalists to attack us, that we want a 'war with Islam'. Funny old world.

you know, i actually think this is a topic worth exploring. TM doesn't much interest me on any level.

I agree with you. There are hard questions that need to be asked and answered about the compatibility between Islam and the western culture. I've had that discussion many times with Muslim friends.... and I've never been called a bigot by them. Only by left wing idiots. No surprise.

Personally, I am happy we have a separation of Church and State. I also think it is about time that we recognized the role of religion in our society - or the lack of it, and treat each with equal respect.

 

[WillowTree]

So in essence sharia law could be applied against anybody not of the muslim faith because as "infidels" we can all be seen as warring against god. The human rights violations against the women of that faith are deal breakers as far as I'm concerned. Anytime people can rape women and make it her fault, can stone women, can shoot women, or cut off their noses and ears all in the name of a faith without there being a punishment for such crimes means there is no seperation of church from state. That is a sick oppressed society.

 

[jillian]

So in essence sharia law could be applied against anybody not of the muslim faith because as "infidels" we can all be seen as warring against god. The human rights violations against the women of that faith are deal breakers as far as I'm concerned. Anytime people can rape women and make it her fault, can stone women, can shoot women, or cut off their noses and ears all in the name of a faith without there being a punishment for such crimes means there is no seperation of church from state. That is a sick oppressed society.

in a theocracy like iran, it can be used against anyone.

do you think that if the line between church and state were destroyed in this country that the 'g-d hates fags' or 'let's burn korans' crowd would be any different? you know, like when we had witch hunts here.

 

[California Girl]

So in essence sharia law could be applied against anybody not of the muslim faith because as "infidels" we can all be seen as warring against god. The human rights violations against the women of that faith are deal breakers as far as I'm concerned. Anytime people can rape women and make it her fault, can stone women, can shoot women, or cut off their noses and ears all in the name of a faith without there being a punishment for such crimes means there is no seperation of church from state. That is a sick oppressed society.

in a theocracy like iran, it can be used against anyone.

do you think that if the line between church and state were destroyed in this country that the 'g-d hates fags' or 'let's burn korans' crowd would be any different? you know, like when we had witch hunts here.

Depends on which religion destroyed the lines. Not that I have any desire for any faith to have any influence over the US. But.... I think that Sharia is somewhat 'dark ages' compared to faiths such as yours or mine. What I can say, without fear, is that I'll take up arms rather than allow the destruction of the separation of Church and state. I do, however, wish that those of no faith would understand the difference between freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion. The first is how we live, the second is not.

 

[Mad Scientist]

I see Islam using the Koran as their Constitution of sorts on one end of the political spectrum. I see Liberals wanting to ban all religious activity on the other end.

 

[CMike]

There is no constitutional separation.

 

[The Rabbi]

Jillian the lefty again plays the scare card.
fwiw, this country had no separation of church and state for many years. Yes, the federal gov't could not impose tests. But states could. And did.
It isn't the mere act of religion informing the state that makes for horrors. It is the particular religion, the particular state, and the culture of the people involved.
For what happens when the state is devoid of religion, look at the Soviet Union, Albania, China, etc etc.

 

[jillian]

Depends on which religion destroyed the lines. Not that I have any desire for any faith to have any influence over the US. But.... I think that Sharia is somewhat 'dark ages' compared to faiths such as yours or mine. What I can say, without fear, is that I'll take up arms rather than allow the destruction of the separation of Church and state. I do, however, wish that those of no faith would understand the difference between freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion. The first is how we live, the second is not.

i think all religions are dark ages if taken to their extremes. fundamentalism of any type breeds theocracy if permitted.

 

[Si modo]

Depends on which religion destroyed the lines. Not that I have any desire for any faith to have any influence over the US. But.... I think that Sharia is somewhat 'dark ages' compared to faiths such as yours or mine. What I can say, without fear, is that I'll take up arms rather than allow the destruction of the separation of Church and state. I do, however, wish that those of no faith would understand the difference between freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion. The first is how we live, the second is not.

i think all religions are dark ages if taken to their extremes. fundamentalism of any type breeds theocracy if permitted.

Absolutely.

 

[jillian]

Depends on which religion destroyed the lines. Not that I have any desire for any faith to have any influence over the US. But.... I think that Sharia is somewhat 'dark ages' compared to faiths such as yours or mine. What I can say, without fear, is that I'll take up arms rather than allow the destruction of the separation of Church and state. I do, however, wish that those of no faith would understand the difference between freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion. The first is how we live, the second is not.

i think all religions are dark ages if taken to their extremes. fundamentalism of any type breeds theocracy if permitted.

Absolutely.

you see how insane and touchy some loons get when that's pointed out. better to leave government to government and religion to ones church/synagogue/mosque or whatever structure one wishes.

 

[manifold]

The major sticking point here is that Islam EXPLICITLY views secular governments as abominations.

Good luck getting the 'slims to embrace western style separation.

 

[midcan5]

There is a curious irony to all religions that no one ever seems to recognize, at some point along their trajectory, their followers realize and live lives that are separate from the fundamentalism inherent in all religion. How many religious in an advanced society live according to the 'dictates,' I can think of lots of examples. Are there some who still live an orthodox faith, yes, but given other elements of society they eventually separate the two naturally.


"When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow." Anais Nin

 

[manifold]

So in essence sharia law could be applied against anybody not of the muslim faith because as "infidels" we can all be seen as warring against god. The human rights violations against the women of that faith are deal breakers as far as I'm concerned. Anytime people can rape women and make it her fault, can stone women, can shoot women, or cut off their noses and ears all in the name of a faith without there being a punishment for such crimes means there is no seperation of church from state. That is a sick oppressed society.

in a theocracy like iran, it can be used against anyone.

do you think that if the line between church and state were destroyed in this country that the 'g-d hates fags' or 'let's burn korans' crowd would be any different? you know, like when we had witch hunts here.

Are you really comparing a wild and wholly unlikely hypothetical with an absolute hard reality in some assbackwards attempt to make your op not JUST about Islam in the middle east?

 

[jillian]

Are you really comparing a wild and wholly unlikely hypothetical with an absolute hard reality in some assbackwards attempt to make your op not JUST about Islam in the middle east?

I think you get the point i made... societies are much healthier when church and state are separate

 

[The Rabbi]

Are you really comparing a wild and wholly unlikely hypothetical with an absolute hard reality in some assbackwards attempt to make your op not JUST about Islam in the middle east?

I think you get the point i made... societies are much healthier when church and state are separate

You mean like Great Britain?

 

[jillian]

poor insane troll...

 

[The Rabbi]

poor insane troll...

great britain has a national church. but it isn't a theocracy.

Poor idiot.
There is no separation of church and state in GB. The queen is both head of state and head of the church.
No one said a word about "theocracy" until you brought it up. That is an extreme example. Surely you admit there is much between religion informing public life (as it did for most of our history) and a theocracy?

ETA. And now I see you've edited your post to avoid anything resembling a counter argument. I knew you were the intellectually bankrupt moron I always thought.