Discussion in 'Israel and Palestine' started by montyfowler, Feb 20, 2004.
RWA,KCM, and Monty geting along.
The sky is Falling!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no logical compromise for the Israel/palestine problem. The two groups have been fighting since basically the beginning of recorded history. Thats over 2000 year, they won't compromise.
"For over 4,000 years the entire world has castigated the jews for various reason, most of which boil down to racism, plain and simple."
This is what Jews would like us to believe. The truth is that Jews are hated because they persistently do things that piss us all off. That is, they're hated because they are HATABLE! Why doesn't the world hate, say, Finns?
"Let's try to keep the antisemitic comments out of the mix. Besides offending people, it only serves to destroy the credibility of your arguments."
In other words, let's analyze this from every possible perspective but the ones that may put (gasp!) some of the blame on Jews. Jews, always blameless. The rest of us (ignorant Muslim masses, nativist white people, Mel Gibson, etc.) are always to be blamed. I get sick of this shit. Doesn't anyone else? Talk about destroying credibility.
Look, I don't see Jews as the source of all the world's problems. But there is something really, really freakin' weird about how they can lock out all criticism of themselves. I think this, more than "racism" or "anti-Semitism," contributes to the belief that they DO run the world.
Jews never get blamed for anything?
Except for that whole deicide thing, right?
There is a world of difference between legitimate criticism of Jews or the Israeli government, and open antisemitic or racist remarks. You're a smart guy and you know the difference.
I would never stop anyone from discussing true criticism of any group...that's the whole point of debate. But you do destroy your credibility when you engage in meanspirited vicious hate speech.
I will be the first one to criticize the Israeli government for their stubborn conduct over the past three years. The massacre at Jenin was criminal and the people in the Israeli government responsible for giving the orders should be prosecuted. The wanton assassination of PLO, Hammas, and other Palestinian leaders is as bad as the suicide bombings. Notice though...there is a difference between the Israeli government and "the Jews". About half of the Israeli executive branch and Knesset are nonreligious. They are no more Jewish than an Italian atheist is Catholic.
Let's get back to the topic of this thread and stop all the moronic hate speech.
If you are interested, there is a psychology professer at the University of California, Long Beach, who has demonstrated that Jews identify as Jews regardless of their level of religiousness --- and sometimes, the less religious a Jew is, the MORE they identify as a Jew. His name is Kevin MacDonald, and his book, Culture of Critique, lays out this viewpoint. He has shown that Jews are essentially an ethnicity, not a religion, but that they have skillfully manipulated their host societies into thinking of them as "just another religion," i.e., of no more significance than the difference between a Lutheran and a Catholic. Genetic testing reveals that Jews are biologically related, however. Their "religion," like them as a people, is NOT open to outsiders. This is quite unlike Christianity.
I don't consider this "moronic hate speech." I consider it crucial to any understanding of solutions to the problems in the Middle East.
So now we are to believe that the "Jews" are a genetically distinct ethnic group? Never mind the great Diaspora that scattered the semitic Jews across Europe and Central Asia over the past 1,400 years. Never mind the 70+ generations of ethnic mixing with the populations of Western Europe, the Balkans, and Russia.
Your last post sounds alot like some of the psuedo-science practiced in the 30's in Germany. What's next? Are you going to point to some research that compares cranial meaurements of Jews with other ethinic groups?
Again...what does any of this have to do with the topic? Show me, Herr Joyce, how any of this trash relates to the problem of peace in the Middle East. I beg of you...please make a point! Even a lame point would be welcome.
Absolutely. A point of MacDonald's work is that despite the diaspora, Jews have maintained very, very tight intra-ethnic connections, even to the point of inbreeding. They have done this by heavy discouragement of marrying outside the ethnicity. And, the genetic research cannot be refuted. You can take a self-identified American Jew and find close genetic relations with German Jews, French Jews, etc.
The point being: what's going on in the Middle East is a RACE WAR. Plain and simple. It's not about "freedom" versus other, or about "Judaism" versus "Islam." Just listen to what the Jews themselves say about it, in moments of honesty.
Sure it can. What genetic research are you (Mac Donald) referencing? What was the sample population size? What genetic markers have been determined to be indicative of "Jewish" ethnicity? Since we do not have an archetypical Jewish genetic sample (100% Jewish - whatever that means) how can any scientist make a meaningful comparison?
Oh...and by the way. Mac Donald and his "scholarly" writings are widely viewed by his peers to be nothing but well-written racist rubbish.
And for a third time...I invite you to post something relevant to the topic of this thread.
Nobody has actually taken issue with the substance of what MacDonald has said. Most folks have simply screamed and said, "You can't say that about the precious Jews!"
But he did. Here:
You are insisting that my posts are not relevant to the topic. I am insisting that they are. Readers will be the judge. Understanding the middle east situation involves an accurate understanding of the competing parties.
Separate names with a comma.