What logical solution can there be?

Discussion in 'Israel and Palestine' started by montyfowler, Feb 20, 2004.

  1. montyfowler
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    montyfowler Member

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    For over 4,000 years the entire world has castigated the jews for various reason, most of which boil down to racism, plain and simple.

    The Arabs -- especially the Palestinians -- have a legitimate beef with the Isreali government, the Bristish, the UN, and the US. Let's not forget how the modern state of Israel came to be. (See UN Partition Plan 181 - Nov. 1947) http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

    Here is a great timeline that summarizes the persecution of the Palestinians. www.palestinerefugees.org/HTML/history.htm Funny we never hear them referred to as persecuted.

    Now don't misunderstand me. I am not talking about Muslims like the ones that attacked us on 9/11. OBL and AQ have no justification for their actions in the Arab-Jew problem. This family feud goes back thousands of years before Islam even existed.

    Let's talk about some of the real issues and some real potential solutions. Let's try to keep the antisemitic comments out of the mix. Besides offending people, it only serves to destroy the credibility of your arguments.
     
  2. Bry
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    Bry Member

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    I follow and/or agree with everything you say with the exception of:
    I'm not sure how to understand this. OBL certainly does cite the American support of Israel as one of his reasons for attacking American targets. That along with American support (if puppeteering isn't a better word...) for various dictatorial regimes in Islamic countries. Do you mean to say he is not responding to the US sponsorship of the creation and support of Israel, or that he is but that those claims on his part are not justifiable?

    I know this is a bit of a nit pick, but it seems an important difference to me.
     
  3. AtlantaWalter
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    AtlantaWalter Member

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    Interesting concept.....

    "For over 4,000 years the entire world has castigated the jews for various reason, most of which boil down to racism, plain and simple." (quote montyfowler)

    that the ENTIRE world could be wrong for 4,000 years.

    I'm thinking your premise is missing something somewhere along the line.

    And, as for "Let's try to the antisemitic comments out of the mix."
    (quote montyfowler)....

    It is quite impossible to attempt to keep racism out of the argument due to the fact that when one attacks the jews as a race, they become a religion, and when one attacks them as a religion, they become a race. Slippery little suckers aren't they!!!
     
  4. montyfowler
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    montyfowler Member

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    The latter...there is no justification for the actions of ABL and AQ in the US support for Isreal. It is overly-simplistic to think that the plight of the Palestinians could inspire people from a different country, language and culture to commit suicide on their behalf.

    Let's dig a bit deeper (Shipler's book does this better than anything I have read on the subject) and uncover the real reasons. As with so many things, the reality is often less sensational and more revealing of man's true nature than is the fantasy.

    Start thinking about this...if you were a poor 20 year old man living in Malaysia with no job, no education, no skills and your only contact with the West was what you see on satellite TV, what would your opinion of Americans be? Now add a weekly speech from the local Imam during worship at the mosque that names the US as the Great Satan, blames us for every evil in the world and every misfortune of the people, and you get a very, very angry young man who hates the West.

    More later...
     
  5. montyfowler
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    montyfowler Member

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    Exactly what I would expect an antisemite to say. Look, some groups do have a legitimate gripe with the Jews...on religious grounds. Other have legitimate gripes with the state of Isreal (all citizens included without regard to their religion). That's why I said, "MOST of which boil down to racism". Some reasons are valid and need to be addressed.

    The problem with racism is that it assumes an unlevel playing field. When one race elevates itself above another, it necessarily reduces the humanity of the other and makes it easier to abandon morality and ethics when dealing with that race, or country.

    Consider how we (the US) dehumanized the Japanese during WWII and the North Vietnamese and Cambodians during the Vietnam War. What attrocities were committed under those conditions...
     
  6. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    Monty, I find your signature line revealing: "You are what you say." Does this also mean, "you are what you say you are?". So, if you say your conservative, we're just supposed to believe you, even though you're obviously lying?

    Very interesting.
     
  7. montyfowler
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    montyfowler Member

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    Do you have anything constructive to say or are you just the self-appointed Conservative police? Give it a rest, man!

    I know who and what I am. At least I have something remotely intelligent to say. You are just a mouthpiece for the worst ideas and vitreol our party has to offer. There is good and bad in every party...and you are revealing yourself as the embodiment of all that is bad.

    Now I am done with you.
     
  8. nbdysfu
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    nbdysfu Member

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    Interesting site Mf., I like this tidbit about 'Palestinian refugees':



     
  9. tim_duncan2000
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    tim_duncan2000 Active Member

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    Not only that, but the Arab nations would not take in the Palestinian refugees and they have done little to nothing about the problem other then talk about how horrible Israel is.
     
  10. Bry
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    Bry Member

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    What you say about the other arab countries doing little or nothing to help the plight of the Palestenians is good and correct as i understand it. Perhaps a refugee problem they were ill equiped to handle. Or perhaps they saw the benefits of such a humanitarian disaster in diplomatic terms. Whichever the case, this bit about "five arab countries attacking a one day old Israel" is garbage. The zionists were very prepared for that conflict, and if anything welcomed it.
    As for the myth that Arab countries encouraged Palestenians to leave...
    and...
     

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