What it means to be Born Again

[Book of Jeremiah]

And another!

 

[there4eyeM]

A hallucination is when one perceives something that isn't there (positive), or doesn't perceive something that is there (negative). The problem: if one is alone, it is impossible to know it is a hallucination.
This makes hallucinations totally democratic; i.e., a majority decides.
Yet we have seen historically that mass hallucinations can occur.
Those who did or did not perceive what the group did or didn't were 'heretics', etc.
Experiencing God is like a hallucination, either positive or negative. The individual cannot rely on anyone else to decide.

 

[Hollie]

And another!

Melissa "Fryrear".

Has someone played a cruel joke on you?

 

[zaangalewa]

A hallucination is when one perceives something that isn't there (positive), or doesn't perceive something that is there (negative). The problem: if one is alone, it is impossible to know it is a hallucination.
This makes hallucinations totally democratic; i.e., a majority decides.
Yet we have seen historically that mass hallucinations can occur.
Those who did or did not perceive what the group did or didn't were 'heretics', etc.
Experiencing God is like a hallucination, either positive or negative. The individual cannot rely on anyone else to decide.

Experiencing the world is a hallucination, because you live on the holodeck of starship enterprise, dear hologram, and your reality is a virtuality made from the computer there.

This is not true - you are not a hologram on a starship. I guess you agree. But you don't know why you know this - why you are not confused from such forms to "think". You know it not because of written formalisms but because you believe in truth - I hope there's no need to say now that god is the light of truth - the not-destructive flame in the thornbush. We are able to explore and to explain the reality all around because this reality is here. God is not a liar, And let me also say: Who believes not in wonders is not a realist.

This all has nothing to do with democracy. What has to do with democracy starts later and is not finished yet. There are for example existing unalienable human rights. The word "unalienable" tells us that this rights are true rights - not democratic rights but absolute rights. It's true that we are equal for example. And if we are equal then democracy makes sense. But democracy is not able to decide that we are not equal, because this is not true. There's for example no difference between a human being minus eight month before birth or 90 years after birth. They are equal ... in the eyes of the Lord. He loves all of his children.

 

[there4eyeM]

A person can only 'know' through perception. Perception happens one hundred percent in the interior of a person. Perception is one hundred percent relative. What one holds to be true is essentially a choice.
What I hold to be true and important I realize is only necessary to be true for me, and even then I allow for doubt and error.
If God exists, I know that any concept, image or idea I have of God must be metaphorical at best.
We cannot escape from the subjectivity of our consciousness and that it occurs entirely within us. If there is any objective truth, it is this.

 

[zaangalewa]

A person can only 'know' through perception.

And a human being cannot be without perceptíon - so everyone should know something. About 50% are perceptions of the body and 50% is perception of the environment.

Perception happens one hundred percent in the interior of a person. Perception is one hundred percent relative.

Relative to what?

What one holds to be true is essentially a choice.

If someone says "Your leg is broken" then this can be true or not. Where's a real choice in situations where it's important to be in the truth? The reality of broken legs needs to know methods how to repair a broken leg. And it's for example true that it helpes nothing in case of a broken leg to eat a piece of bread. Sure it's a possible freedom (=choice) to do so - but what's the sense of such forms to think?

By the way: the most people who are thinking "everything is relative" don't understand the theory of relativity of Einstein, where this form to think comes from (poor Einstein). Einstein found out that space and time are relative, because the speed of light is absolute. A sentence like "everything is a surprise" or "everything is wonderful" would make more sense.

What I hold to be true and important I realize is only necessary to be true for me, and even then I allow for doubt and error.

Besides that doubt needs no allowness and errors come in masses whenever they like to come: you would not be able to communicate in a world without intersubjective agreements about true and wrong statements.

If God exists, I know

If god exists you know? If I exist - what you don't know because I could be your own illusion - what do you know because of this? You "know" that the illusion, which I am, was able to move your thoughts in "strange" directions you never would think about only on your own. If you call this "existance" and god moves your thoughts then god exists.

that any concept, image or idea I have of God must be metaphorical at best.

Metaphorical? Sure no one is able to cry for god because of a full diaper, neverthless I don't think because he's our father he's not our mother too.

We cannot escape from the subjectivity of our consciousness

What kind of consciousness? Awareness or knowledge? My historical consciousness let's me for example think Socrates loved Xanthippe very much. He never spoke any bad word about her. But others did. Oh: Naturally if he spoke any word at all, what we don't know.

and that it occurs entirely within us. If there is any objective truth, it is this.

There are lots of funny - but also harmful - truthes and "truthes" existing today. To find the truth is not always easy, but for sure will no one find any truth if he believes not that truth is real - or reality is true.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

What is means to be Born Again. Afshin's story - listen to what he has to say:



Published on Jun 15, 2012
Afshin was born in 1972 in southern Iran in a city called Abadan. His earliest childhood memories was the islamic revolution in 1979. When he was about 8 years old he remembers a plane flying about 40 feet above his head and a few seconds later there was a loud sound and the ground shook. This was the first bomb dropped by the Iraqi Airforce. At this point they got into a car and left everything they owned and went to a city about an hour away. When the Iraqi's advanced they had to move four more times before they had to leave the country in 1987. As a 15 year old he crossed the dessert walking into Pakistan and witnessed
the poverty in Pakistan. From 1990-1992 he spent time in Bangladesh as a missionary while waiting to move to Canada. He is now the founding member of I AM Thirsty Ministries in Vancouver. Afshin is happily married and recently renewed his wedding vows for his 15th year anniversary. Afshin and his wife have four beautiful children.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

the gospel of jesus says not to follow false prophets

That's right. Believers are to expose false teachers/prophets so others are not deceived by them. Constantine,Ignatius Loyola, Ellen G. White, Joseph Smith, Mohammad, Russell (founder of JW) L.Ron Hubbard, Ghandi, all false teachers - there was last I heard over 1,000 cults in America. The harvest field is great!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Speaking of salvation. Today is the day of Salvation!

William Gurnall said this about salvation:

Satan distracts sinners with delays. He does not fear fleeting thoughts of repentance. I doubt there are many in hell who did not at one time or another give some thought to repenting, but Satan was always able to carry them away on some more urgent business. Sinner, if you ever hope to escape, run for your life - away from Satan, away from your lusts, away from your present joys if they are the handiwork of Satan. The devil says, "Tomorrow." God says, "Today." Whom will you obey?
-William Gurnall

 

[zaangalewa]

the gospel of jesus says not to follow false prophets

That's right. Believers are to expose false teachers/prophets so others are not deceived by them. Constantine,Ignatius Loyola, Ellen G. White, Joseph Smith, Mohammad, Russell (founder of JW) L.Ron Hubbard, Ghandi, all false teachers - there was last I heard over 1,000 cults in America. The harvest field is great!

Don't forget Alf Kermit Hitler and Jeremiah Hate.

He who goes about to reform the world must begin with himself, or he loses his labor.
Ignatius of Loyola



PS: Scientology (Ron L. Hubbard) has nothing to do with religion.

 

[zaangalewa]

Speaking of salvation. Today is the day of Salvation! ...

What is salvation?

 

[Avatar4321]

the gospel of jesus says not to follow false prophets

That's right. Believers are to expose false teachers/prophets so others are not deceived by them. Constantine,Ignatius Loyola, Ellen G. White, Joseph Smith, Mohammad, Russell (founder of JW) L.Ron Hubbard, Ghandi, all false teachers - there was last I heard over 1,000 cults in America. The harvest field is great!

Silly me, I thought we were supposed to preach the gospel.

 

[Avatar4321]

Was curious so I just did a search of the scriptures for any instructions on exposing false teachers. There was none. The only mention of false teachers in the Bible is the following:

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. (2 Peter 2:1)

Which makes sense. Our commission from Jesus Christ is to preach the gospel. Exposing false teachers doesn't prove Jesus is the Christ. It doesn't uplift or edify anyone. It doesn't help them gain a testimony or experience a rebirth.

A search for the word expose exposed zero references in the Bible.

It seems to me we, as Christians, would be wise to follow Joseph Smith's advice:

"If I esteem mankind to be in error, shall I bear them down? No. I will lift them up, and in their own way too, if I cannot persuade them my way is better; and I will not seek to compel any man to believe as I do, only by the force of reasoning, for truth will cut its own way.”

Teach the doctrine of Christ. They will have a far greater impact on the lives of people than exposing false teachers. They have a tendency to expose themselves

 

[Avatar4321]

This topic reminds me of one of my favorite sermons on the subject

The Lord works from the inside out. The world works from the outside in. The world would take people out of the slums. Christ takes the slums out of people, and then they take themselves out of the slums. The world would mold men by changing their environment. Christ changes men, who then change their environment. The world would shape human behavior, but Christ can change human nature.

“Human nature can be changed, here and now,” said President McKay, and then he quoted the following:

“‘You can change human nature. No man who has felt in him the Spirit of Christ even for half a minute can deny this truth. …

“‘You do change human nature, your own human nature, if you surrender it to Christ. Human nature can be changed here and now. Human nature has been changed in the past. Human nature must be changed on an enormous scale in the future, unless the world is to be drowned in its own blood. And only Christ can change it.

“‘Twelve men did quite a lot to change the world [nineteen hundred] years ago. Twelve simple men.’” (Quoting Beverly Nichols, in Stepping Stones to an Abundant Life, comp. Llewelyn R. McKay, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1971, pp. 23, 127.)

Yes, Christ changes men, and changed men can change the world. - Born of God, Ezra Taft Benson)

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The title reminds me of this sermon. Listen and see for yourselves and then ask yourselves. Am I born again? Am I follower of Jesus Christ?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

the gospel of jesus says not to follow false prophets

That's right. Believers are to expose false teachers/prophets so others are not deceived by them. Constantine,Ignatius Loyola, Ellen G. White, Joseph Smith, Mohammad, Russell (founder of JW) L.Ron Hubbard, Ghandi, all false teachers - there was last I heard over 1,000 cults in America. The harvest field is great!

Silly me, I thought we were supposed to preach the gospel.

When the Gospel is preached - false teachers and their lies are exposed - Joseph Smith was a false prophet.

The bible commands the Believer to do more than preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The believer is to defend the faith, to expose false doctrine, to warn others about hell. You need to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Not Joseph Smith.

 

[pillars]

If you knew anything about Mormonism, you'd realize that Joseph Smith, much like you, believed that he was in direct communion with Jesus Christ, and preached of him constantly.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

If you knew anything about Mormonism, you'd realize that Joseph Smith, much like you, believed that he was in direct communion with Jesus Christ, and preached of him constantly.

You are mistaken. Joseph Smith was a false prophet that taught a false message. I'll post a link for you. In the meantime can a Catholic, a Muslim, a Mormon find Christ and depart from the religion they were brought up in? Yes. Listen to this:

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

 

[featherlite]

I agree the Bible demands Christians teach more than the Gospel of Christ. and I don't agree with specific Mormon teachings...but rarely ( if ever) do I disagree with the gist of Avatars posts.

Im not sure Ill ever be able to move past the Gospel of Christs grace, spirit of inclusion & forgiveness.
Im definitely on the slow bus to spirituality. ( as far as total Biblical truth)