What It Feels Like To Be An Atheist

[Max Power]

That's not a very valid comparison, as the New Testament is a historically reliable book.

How many authors of the bible were there for the virgin birth?
If none, how can it be historically reliable?

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible4.html
(I think that the straight dope is not a biased source)

Quite a few collections of stories about Jesus circulated in the early church, among them The Gospel of Thomas, The Gospel of Mary, and the Secret Book of John. Some of these gave very different and in some cases conflicting accounts of the gospel and, most importantly, of Jesus' alleged resurrection. Some argued for the physical resurrection, with the mantle of leadership falling on those who had experienced it firsthand: the apostles. Others said the resurrection was a spiritual event that anyone could experience. Some thought this latter "heresy" would have led the church away from an organized entity into a situation where anyone could judge the truth for themselves. As Elaine Pagels points out in The Gnostic Gospel, this was no trivial matter. The decision on which interpretation was "correct" was central to the future of the church.

What makes these gospels historically inaccurate, compared to those that are in the bible?
Because of which ones were later selected to be included in the bible (abritrarily related to historical accuracy)?

 

[MissileMan]

However, there is no evidence to refute the claims of Christ's divinity, whereas mountain climbers have seen the top of Mt. Olympus and didn't find any divine beings. I'll admit that emperically, there's really not a whole lot of difference in the amount of evidence supporting any of the world's major religions. However, there's about that much evidence proving evolution, as well, and that crap's taught in schools as fact.

Well obviously Zeus is invisible and chooses to remain so to further the need for faith in him.

All arguments for religion are circular. The arguments as to why you should have faith require faith.

 

[MissileMan]

Yeah, God tends to be a hands-off guy. He wants people to have faith, and faith isn't faith if there's emperical evidence proving it.

A self-fulfilling argument that proves nothing.

 

[5stringJeff]

How many authors of the bible were there for the virgin birth?
If none, how can it be historically reliable?

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible4.html
(I think that the straight dope is not a biased source)


What makes these gospels historically inaccurate, compared to those that are in the bible?
Because of which ones were later selected to be included in the bible (abritrarily related to historical accuracy)?

The Gnostic Gospels not only contradicted the NT Gospels, they also contradicted the teachings of the apostles. For example, from the GoT: "Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go forth from among us, for women are not worthy of the life. Jesus said: Behold, I shall lead her, that I may make her male, in order that she also may become a living spirit like you males. For every woman who makes herself male shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."

 

[5stringJeff]

Well, at least you'll admit that.

I know that Jeff isn't going to show up with some evidence that prove not only that Jesus existed, but that his miracles were real. If anyone DID have this evidence, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Re: miracles.

http://www.carm.org/evidence/miracles.htm

 

[Max Power]

Re: miracles.

http://www.carm.org/evidence/miracles.htm

Well, then like Missile pointed out, you are assuming that there is a God in your proof that there is a God. It's circular.

 

[5stringJeff]

Well, then like Missile pointed out, you are assuming that there is a God in your proof that there is a God. It's circular.

No, I'm assuming that there's a God in my proof of miracles.

Gotta go, be back tomorrow.

 

[8236]

All of these stories were written well after Jesus died. I'm not sure that we can deem them all factual although I'm sure part of the stories were factual. How do we know Jesus didn't go into a coma?

And none of them by the original disciples.

 

[Powerman]

And none of them by the original disciples.

Another important point that seems to be left out. Exactly how did these people know what was going on. And more importantly all of his disciples were long dead by the time these books were written. So an author couldn't even get a decent interview with people to ask them questions.

 

[Bonnie]

Well, at least you'll admit that.

I know that Jeff isn't going to show up with some evidence that prove not only that Jesus existed, but that his miracles were real. If anyone DID have this evidence, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I doubt that..... Some people don't see what's right in front of them, or they choose not to.

 

[Avatar4321]

How many authors of the bible were there for the virgin birth?
If none, how can it be historically reliable?

Why on earth should any modern person not believe the virgin birth? I mean modern science could get a virgin pregnant nowadays. Should we expect an all powerful, all knowing God wouldnt know how? Seriously.

 

[5stringJeff]

And none of them by the original disciples.

Wrong. Matthew and John were two of the 12 Apostles. Mark was a close companion of Peter, Jesus' closest disciple, and Luke was a historian who knew (and travelled with) Paul.

 

[5stringJeff]

Another important point that seems to be left out. Exactly how did these people know what was going on. And more importantly all of his disciples were long dead by the time these books were written. So an author couldn't even get a decent interview with people to ask them questions.

Again, wrong. Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written around 60-75 AD, during which time the disciples would have been older, but not dead. John was believed to have written his gospel around 90 AD, which would have made him quite old, but not impossibly old.

 

[MissileMan]

Why on earth should any modern person not believe the virgin birth? I mean modern science could get a virgin pregnant nowadays. Should we expect an all powerful, all knowing God wouldnt know how? Seriously.

Why would God need to magically impregnate a mortal? Why not simply create a messiah in the same manner alleged in Genesis?

 

[dilloduck]

Why would God need to magically impregnate a mortal? Why not simply create a messiah in the same manner alleged in Genesis?

for effect, maybe?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Why would God need to magically impregnate a mortal? Why not simply create a messiah in the same manner alleged in Genesis?

Thats a good question, but Jesus is fundamentally different than Adam.

It is said that Jesus is FULLY GOD, yet FULLY HUMAN,

it became apparent to me after some time, that the entire miracle, and many of the others would transverse my level of being able to understand, kinda like Einsteins theory of relativity, it can be fully explained, but very, VERY few would even remotely understand it, certainly no one here.

OFF TOPIC, Im wondering, what are those little dots by our names? and why are some green, and others not?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Wrong. Matthew and John were two of the 12 Apostles. Mark was a close companion of Peter, Jesus' closest disciple, and Luke was a historian who knew (and travelled with) Paul.

whats the story with the "letters", like to the Corinthians, etc, from Peter and some of the other boys?? Were they the original letters? Where did they come from?

 

[Hobbit]

Thats a good question, but Jesus is fundamentally different than Adam.

It is said that Jesus is FULLY GOD, yet FULLY HUMAN,

it became apparent to me after some time, that the entire miracle, and many of the others would transverse my level of being able to understand, kinda like Einsteins theory of relativity, it can be fully explained, but very, VERY few would even remotely understand it, certainly no one here.

Jesus wanted the full experience. He wished to become man to see what it was like to become man, and to get the full experience, he had to get born and grow up. Remember, he was 30 when his minitry started, and that means at least 15 years of being a carpenter before that. If the whole point was just to preach for three years and then die, he could have come as a fully grown human and only stay for three years.

OFF TOPIC, Im wondering, what are those little dots by our names? and why are some green, and others not?

If it's green, the person's online.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Obviously, the guy didn't read the part of the Bible about Jesus rising from the dead...

What if it LOOKED like Jesus died--like he went unconscious for three days and then rose from the dead like a voodoo zombie.

 

[Hobbit]

What if it LOOKED like Jesus died--like he went unconscious for three days and then rose from the dead like a voodoo zombie.

Well, he was kinda stabbed in the heart, which rules out the theory of him not actually dying. The most widely accepted "explanation" of Jesus rising from the dead that doesn't actually involve believing that Jesus rose from the dead is that the disciples stole the body, then claimed he rose from the dead. However, the Romans had a century of soldiers (not all at once, they rotated) guarding the tomb to prevent just that, and Romans were the best soldiers in the world at the time. In addition, it would have to have been a pretty big conspiracy to account for all the eyewitnesses who saw him between the ressurection and the ascention.