What It Feels Like To Be An Atheist

[manu1959]

To which ones do you refer? There were many texts written about Jesus. The ones that went into the New Testament were decided upon by the Council of Nicea. Everybody knows that.

http://www.answers.com/topic/historicity-of-jesus

just one of many .... read and judge for yourself....google is a cool tool

 

[Hagbard Celine]

We also know that a man named Jesus existed, and that a few of His disciples wrote biographies of him, so that we can know some of the events of His life, including the fact that He was crucified, and that He rose from the dead again.

Oh, wait. Those aren't the kind of facts you wanted to see... my bad.

We also know that Jesus isn't the first person to claim he is God.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

http://www.answers.com/topic/historicity-of-jesus

just one of many .... read and judge for yourself....google is a cool tool

Of course Jesus existed, nobody's refuting that. I'm refuting that you can prove what was written about him is true. It's fairly far-fetched if you haven't noticed.

I can tell you bluffed. You didn't look anything up until I called you on it. Anyway, many of the sources here, i.e. Josephus, Pliny the Elder, etc. weren't used by the Council of Nicea because they refute many claims made by purveyors/converters of the faith such as Paul, John, Mark, and Matthew.

 

[manu1959]

We also know that Jesus isn't the first person to claim he is God.

as my mom worked in a mental hospital and introduced me to jesus and god several times.....i doubt it will be the last

 

[Avatar4321]

All of these stories were written well after Jesus died. I'm not sure that we can deem them all factual although I'm sure part of the stories were factual. How do we know Jesus didn't go into a coma?

Yeah, funny how the events leading up to and surounding the death of Christ were written after his death. Who would have thought?

 

[Avatar4321]

Doesnt having a picture up in every post you make take up a lot of bandwidth? Doesnt that cost the forum money?

I believe it does, and I believe that having a picture in the signature is against the rules. It doesnt occur very often so Ill have to check.

 

[Avatar4321]

See, the difference with your genius Hitler example is that we have photographic, video, audio, dna, physical, memorial and documentary evidence of Hitler and the things he did. The evidence validating the story of Jesus? A book written down hundreds of years after he died by people from different cultures who didn't know him that has been translated from Hebrew, to Aramaic, to Greek, to Latin, to German, to English. Don't get me started on the Old Testament. For the first 2,000 years, it survived only in oral tradition. But I guess primitive desert nomads never forget.

The majority of the New Testament was written in Greek, not translated from Hebrew to Aarmaic to Greek.

And I don't know that any English Bible was every translated from the German Bibles. Where do you get this stuff?

That and the claim that it wasn't written by the people who actually knew him is the most ridiculous. Say your claim is true, how on earth do you even begin to prove that it is?

Besides, you naturally assume the Bible is all there is. The fact is the Holy Ghost can testify to people the reality of the resurrection. It's one of His missions.

 

[Avatar4321]

well the article was a waste of time. No where in the article did I find any evidence that the writer was concerned with rational intellectual discussion or even capable of it.

The fact is even from the beginning he admitted he is closed minded to the possibility. The fact that he dismisses anyone who has faith in God as insane clearly demonstrates how open he is in the discussion.

I found the Santa analogy pretty poor, because it doesn't really reflect any type of religious people, particularly Christian fundamentalists who I am sure he is trying to imply are like this. heck even the muslim terrorists dont reflect half of the things he is trying to analogize.

And considering how passionate he is about his diatribe, i hardly believe this is a guy that is going to be walking on eggshells trying not to offend people. If he experiences half of what he tries to claim I doubt he is the innocent party in a majority of those encounters.

I think the majority of the problem is he has completely closed himself off of the possibility. Not because it isn't logical, but because he doesn't want to believe. The problem is he would merely dismiss any evidence of God as people merely being deluded sheep.

For example, I know God exists, I know that Jesus Christ died for my sins and rose from the grave because of my experiences with the Lord, the miracles of seen, etc. Most of all just from talking with the Lord. and you don't have to take my word for it, you can talk with the Lord yourself and He will tell you.

The writer would dismiss me as psycho delusional. Heck I am not sure id believe half of it if i didnt experience it myself. the fact is he has closed himself off to the possibility that there is a God and that He actually interacts with His children. In fact, I am willing to bet a few of the posters who will read this will think I am nuts. But I am not. I know what I know. I've experienced what Ive experienced. You might not believe me but who cares, I know the truth and God knows the truth and I wont deny it nor could I if i wanted to. Although sometimes it may seem like it would be easier if I could.

The Lord said seek and ye shall find, ask and ye shall receive, knock and it it shall be opened unto you. He certainly hasn't lied about that. Problem is few people are willing to actually seek Him out anymore. No one wants to have to change their life to live a higher standard. They want the benefits of faith without the work involved to make it living faith and some want it without having to believe. Which is a pity because God is more than happy to welcome you with open arms when you feel like coming.

 

[Powerman]

Yeah, funny how the events leading up to and surounding the death of Christ were written after his death. Who would have thought?

Yeah but 60+ years after? Sounds kinda fishy to me. Considering what the average life expectancy of people was back then it makes you wonder if any of these stories were written by people who were alive during the time of Jesus. Probably not if you think about it.

 

[Powerman]

I believe it does, and I believe that having a picture in the signature is against the rules. It doesnt occur very often so Ill have to check.

So if I don't have a picture as an avatar, yet have one as a sig, then how am I wasting anymore bandwith than anyone else. And if it is against the rules to have a pic as your sig then why do they have an image function for you when you create your sig? Seems like you guys are just trying to pick on me. I think it's quite pathetic actually. If the sig offends you then just say so and I will happily remove it.

 

[Avatar4321]

Yeah but 60+ years after? Sounds kinda fishy to me. Considering what the average life expectancy of people was back then it makes you wonder if any of these stories were written by people who were alive during the time of Jesus. Probably not if you think about it.

You have to remember that life expectency was so low because a majority of people died as children. Once you survived into adulthood you had a higher chance of living longer. The main reason life expectency has sky rocketed in modern civilization is because a majority of children make it to adulthood, hence you no longer have those low age deaths dragging the calculation for life expectency down.

You are also trying to make an argument from silence. Since we have no originals of the scriptures there is no telling when they were written. 60+ years is an example of the latest possible time it could have been written. Because it was by then that the scriptures started appearing widespread enough to find some existing copies. If you intend to have a serious discussion on any of these matters you can't ignore these problems with your arguments.

 

[5stringJeff]

All of these stories were written well after Jesus died. I'm not sure that we can deem them all factual although I'm sure part of the stories were factual. How do we know Jesus didn't go into a coma?

The four gospels were written 30-60 years after the fact. But the authors had spent the last 30-60 years recounting those stories as they spread the gospel throughout the Roman Empire. The accuracy of the New Testament is light years above and beyond the accuracy of any other ancient book.

And we know that Jesus wasn't in a coma (or didn't swoon, as most people put it) for several reasons. First, as Hobbit said, He was stabbed in the heart, which is almost always fatal on its own. But, before that, He had been beaten with 39 lashes and crucified, hanging on a cross for six hours. Then His body was wrapped up and placed in a guarded tomb for roughly 36 hours.

 

[Hobbit]

Yeah but 60+ years after? Sounds kinda fishy to me. Considering what the average life expectancy of people was back then it makes you wonder if any of these stories were written by people who were alive during the time of Jesus. Probably not if you think about it.

The Roman government oppressed Christians from the start of that religion. With many of the members having been around during the time of Christ, writing everything down and distributing it was not worth the risk considering how easy it was to get a first hand account. Without the invention of the printing press, distributing by written word was painfully slow, as well. The point was not a historical archive, it was to spread the word to as many people as possible, since many early Christians believed Jesus would return only a few decades after he left. With all of these factors combined, the early church kept with a few writings from the time, as well as Paul's letters, but it wasn't until later that those notes, along with the oral traditions, were combined in written form.

If a sheet of paper and enough ink to fill it was $20+ and what you were writing was punishable by the death penalty, would you write it all down and live in fear of discovery your whole life when you could just as easily tell people orally and not leave any physical evidence?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Doesnt having a picture up in every post you make take up a lot of bandwidth? Doesnt that cost the forum money?

No, unless he actually uploaded it to the USMB server, it doesn't cost this forum any more than having a line of text up. Whoever he's hotlinking the image from it costs bandwidth, but having a picture up is no different than having a hyperlink. It's just code that your browser parses into displaying an image.

 

[5stringJeff]

See, the difference with your genius Hitler example is that we have photographic, video, audio, dna, physical, memorial and documentary evidence of Hitler and the things he did. The evidence validating the story of Jesus? A book written down hundreds of years after he died by people from different cultures who didn't know him that has been translated from Hebrew, to Aramaic, to Greek, to Latin, to German, to English. Don't get me started on the Old Testament. For the first 2,000 years, it survived only in oral tradition. But I guess primitive desert nomads never forget.

Incorrect on many counts.

The New Testament was written in Greek, between 30-60 years after the life of Jesus.

The authors were not desert nomads, but were fishermen (Peter, John, James, Jude), scholars (Luke, Paul), and former government officials (Matthew).

The English Bibles of today are translated from the earliest known Greek manuscripts: Greek to English. Even the KJV, written in 1611, was translated from Greek and Latin transcripts, and not from German.

The OT was written over the course of about 1000 years by several authors. The Torah was in written form when the Israelites invaded Caanan, around 1400 BC.

 

[5stringJeff]

We also know that Jesus isn't the first person to claim he is God.

But He was the first to prove it.

 

[5stringJeff]

Do you also believe in the legend of Hercules? Do you believe Buddha reached true enlightenment? Do you believe in the legend of King Arthur? He pulled the sword from the stone you know. Do you believe Muhammad was visited by the angel Gabriel and given the true word of God? If all stories passed down through history are so "factual" as you put it, why aren't you a Muslim or a Morman for that matter?

Or does the term "fact" only refer to the story of Jesus? If so why?

And if you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?

The Bible has plenty of supporting evidence, to include archaeological and parallel historical evidence, to support its claims. The others, to include Islam and Mormonism, do not.

And I would be an oak tree.

 

[dmp]

The Photo-in-Signature topic has been settled.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

See, the difference with your genius Hitler example is that we have photographic, video, audio, dna, physical, memorial and documentary evidence of Hitler and the things he did. The evidence validating the story of Jesus? A book written down hundreds of years after he died by people from different cultures who didn't know him that has been translated from Hebrew, to Aramaic, to Greek, to Latin, to German, to English. Don't get me started on the Old Testament. For the first 2,000 years, it survived only in oral tradition. But I guess primitive desert nomads never forget.

Information transferred in methods you describe, can be done so accurately.

Ok genius. You come up with something that shortcircuits the Hitler example, but we know thats easy enough to circumvent.

Lets take Ghengis Khan.

Your little tirade makes it all the more credible to believe the accounts of Jesus, but of course the fact that you take the very extreme in every circumstance PROVES that you dont seek the truth, but instead insist on attempting to foister your own agenda of hate.

So, all the desert nomads were primitive? Quite the opposite.

Ever hear of the dead sea scrolls? How many languages have they been interpeted through before it gets to English? So, your little propagandistic adjectives can be thrown out in any rational discussion, oppps, that would be quite painful to you, wouldnt it?

 

[dmp]

Incorrect on many counts.

The New Testament was written in Greek, between 30-60 years after the life of Jesus.

The authors were not desert nomads, but were fishermen (Peter, John, James, Jude), scholars (Luke, Paul), and former government officials (Matthew).

The English Bibles of today are translated from the earliest known Greek manuscripts: Greek to English. Even the KJV, written in 1611, was translated from Greek and Latin transcripts, and not from German.

The OT was written over the course of about 1000 years by several authors. The Torah was in written form when the Israelites invaded Caanan, around 1400 BC.

And it's wise to point out, MANY of the authors did not know eachother...several dozen? men writing which supports eachother, unbeknownst to them. Keep in mind, nobody said "let's write The Bible". Nobody directed nor produced the work. The Bible is a series of seperate writings put together in one easy book.