What is Secularism?

[ScreamingEagle]

Your own definition just made the argument the atheism is NOT a religion. It is not a system of beliefs, but a single belief.

Your argument typifies exactly what the ACLU is doing in terms of messing with our laws. You want to completely change our way of life because of a very fineline point and saying that there is a vast world of difference between a belief and a system of beliefs.

This is parsing of definitions in the extreme. Playing around with definitions is one major method that liberals use to get their way and pull the wool over the eyes of those who would attempt to be exceedingly correct with the details yet are buffaloed in the broader sense.

Thank you NoOneToVote4 for pointing out definition 4: "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion". It certainly defines atheism as a religion. I held off on that one because I wanted to make a point with the other definition first. I got the typical liberal reaction as expected. It just exemplifies that the "cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal" by the liberals is probably not what it appears to be if they have to go to such idiotic extremes.

Atheism is a major tool of Communism. Let's stop kidding ourselves as to what is really going on here.

 

[MissileMan]

Your argument typifies exactly what the ACLU is doing in terms of messing with our laws. You want to completely change our way of life because of a very fineline point and saying that there is a vast world of difference between a belief and a system of beliefs.

This is parsing of definitions in the extreme. Playing around with definitions is one major method that liberals use to get their way and pull the wool over the eyes of those who would attempt to be exceedingly correct with the details yet are buffaloed in the broader sense.

Thank you NoOneToVote4 for pointing out definition 4: "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion". It certainly defines atheism as a religion. I held off on that one because I wanted to make a point with the other definition first. I got the typical liberal reaction as expected. It just exemplifies that the "cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal" by the liberals is probably not what it appears to be if they have to go to such idiotic extremes.

Atheism is a major tool of Communism. Let's stop kidding ourselves as to what is really going on here.

I'm not sure if I have ever seen so many LEAPS to conclusions in a single post before or not.

Conclusion 1: All atheists are liberals, and all liberals are atheists. Sorry, wrong answer. I am very conservative, though atheism allows me to make up my own mind about a couple of the "Only the Christian are Right" issues.

Conclusion 2: All atheists and liberals are communists. Wrong again! You don't have to be Christian to be a loyal patriot of the good ol' USA.

Conclusion 3: There is no difference between a belief and a belief system. You're still batting 1,000. I don't believe in Santa Claus...does that qualify as a religion too? I don't think so. But maybe I'm an Aclausian and didn't even know it.

BTW, your "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion" definition gives an example of how one might use the word religion in that context..."make a religion of a hobby". It doesn't really fit in the way you want it to. Who's playing around with definitions now?

"ACLAUSIANS OF THE WORLD UNITE!"

 

[no1tovote4]

I'm not sure if I have ever seen so many LEAPS to conclusions in a single post before or not.

Conclusion 1: All atheists are liberals, and all liberals are atheists. Sorry, wrong answer. I am very conservative, though atheism allows me to make up my own mind about a couple of the "Only the Christian are Right" issues.

Conclusion 2: All atheists and liberals are communists. Wrong again! You don't have to be Christian to be a loyal patriot of the good ol' USA.

Conclusion 3: There is no difference between a belief and a belief system. You're still batting 1,000. I don't believe in Santa Claus...does that qualify as a religion too? I don't think so. But maybe I'm an Aclausian and didn't even know it.

BTW, your "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion" definition gives an example of how one might use the word religion in that context..."make a religion of a hobby". It doesn't really fit in the way you want it to. Who's playing around with definitions now?

"ACLAUSIANS OF THE WORLD UNITE!"

Funny, but any religion such as Atheism that has evangelists attempting to convert others and forcing them to follow their religious beliefs is a religion regardless of whether you want to think so or not.

There are those among Atheists that are definitely religious about it, and as I said before not all Atheists are religious about it. Those that are set out to convert others who are not Atheists and work to set laws that will not allow public expression of other religions in any public place. Effectively working to keep Atheism as the official religion of the US. This also works with Secular Humanism.

Since we are all Aclausian together, we can start from that common ground and work from there. However it is unlikely that you can convert one person with a belief in a Supreme Being to your religion, regardless of how many times you attempt to make them believe that their current belief is foolish. It is better to simply accept and understand the different beliefs of others rather than constantly attempt to change them or force them to believe as you do.

The fourth definition is the definition that fits those that take on Atheism as the only valid belief system and work to benefit that cause to the exclusion of all others. An example would be the "Freedom From Religion" groups that attempt to work their religion into the public sphere as the only valid religion to be expressed in public.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I'm not sure if I have ever seen so many LEAPS to conclusions in a single post before or not.

Conclusion 1: All atheists are liberals, and all liberals are atheists. Sorry, wrong answer. I am very conservative, though atheism allows me to make up my own mind about a couple of the "Only the Christian are Right" issues.

Conclusion 2: All atheists and liberals are communists. Wrong again! You don't have to be Christian to be a loyal patriot of the good ol' USA.

Conclusion 3: There is no difference between a belief and a belief system. You're still batting 1,000. I don't believe in Santa Claus...does that qualify as a religion too? I don't think so. But maybe I'm an Aclausian and didn't even know it.

BTW, your "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion" definition gives an example of how one might use the word religion in that context..."make a religion of a hobby". It doesn't really fit in the way you want it to. Who's playing around with definitions now?

"ACLAUSIANS OF THE WORLD UNITE!"

Man, you're getting a little uptight aren't you? Why are you being so defensive? I didn't say:
1. that all liberals are atheists (altho many of them are)
2. that all liberals and atheists are communists (altho many of them are)
3. that I can't acknowledge a difference between a belief and a belief system (yet I pointed out that in this particular case the difference in meaning is quite meaningless)

BTW we can play this definition game both ways, can't we? :bangheads

If a conservative starts to get to the heart of the argument, you liberals (or whatever you are) start to fall apart at the seams, grasping for as many straws (or straw arguments) that you possibly can. Your arguments just don't hold up, they're too flimsy.

Better be prepared! Us "scary" religious types are still going to bring (gasp) God into the public arena and you poor secularists (or whatever you are) are going to need to DEAL WITH IT! :halo: <--eek! a religious symbol! :shocked:

 

[MissileMan]

Funny, but any religion such as Atheism that has evangelists attempting to convert others and forcing them to follow their religious beliefs is a religion regardless of whether you want to think so or not.

There are those among Atheists that are definitely religious about it, and as I said before not all Atheists are religious about it. Those that are set out to convert others who are not Atheists and work to set laws that will not allow public expression of other religions in any public place. Effectively working to keep Atheism as the official religion of the US. This also works with Secular Humanism.

Since we are all Aclausian together, we can start from that common ground and work from there. However it is unlikely that you can convert one person with a belief in a Supreme Being to your religion, regardless of how many times you attempt to make them believe that their current belief is foolish. It is better to simply accept and understand the different beliefs of others rather than constantly attempt to change them or force them to believe as you do.

The fourth definition is the definition that fits those that take on Atheism as the only valid belief system and work to benefit that cause to the exclusion of all others. An example would be the "Freedom From Religion" groups that attempt to work their religion into the public sphere as the only valid religion to be expressed in public.

I notice you want to ignore the definition of atheism in this proposition that atheism is a religion. Let's look at it shall we? Atheism: Disbelief in, or denial of the existence of God. This is the exact opposite of a belief system. There is no way that this can be equated to a religion. Atheists have no priests, no anti-bible, no atheist hymns, no atheist churches. A few zealous atheists don't make a religion. BTW, please name some of these atheist evangelists that you claim are spreading the anti-word. I personally have never heard any atheist preaching to anyone to disbelieve in God. As a matter of fact, you'll find that I argued to introduce classes in all religions to public school curriculum.

My intent with the Aclausian tack was to illustrate how a non-belief doesn't equate a religion, not to ridicule anyone's beliefs.

I also have a public anouncement to make:
There will be a meeting of the B.O.O.T.W.D.B.I.T.T.F. next Saturday in our Main Assembly Hall.

 

[MissileMan]

Man, you're getting a little uptight aren't you? Why are you being so defensive? I didn't say:
1. that all liberals are atheists (altho many of them are)
2. that all liberals and atheists are communists (altho many of them are)
3. that I can't acknowledge a difference between a belief and a belief system (yet I pointed out that in this particular case the difference in meaning is quite meaningless)

BTW we can play this definition game both ways, can't we? :bangheads

If a conservative starts to get to the heart of the argument, you liberals (or whatever you are) start to fall apart at the seams, grasping for as many straws (or straw arguments) that you possibly can. Your arguments just don't hold up, they're too flimsy.

Better be prepared! Us "scary" religious types are still going to bring (gasp) God into the public arena and you poor secularists (or whatever you are) are going to need to DEAL WITH IT! :halo: <--eek! a religious symbol! :shocked:

The only one grasping at straws is yourself. Trying to categorize atheism as a religion so you can whine about the theory of evolution being taught in public schools. BTW, are you an Aclausian?

 

[no1tovote4]

I notice you want to ignore the definition of atheism in this proposition that atheism is a religion. Let's look at it shall we? Atheism: Disbelief in, or denial of the existence of God. This is the exact opposite of a belief system. There is no way that this can be equated to a religion. Atheists have no priests, no anti-bible, no atheist hymns, no atheist churches. A few zealous atheists don't make a religion. BTW, please name some of these atheist evangelists that you claim are spreading the anti-word. I personally have never heard any atheist preaching to anyone to disbelieve in God. As a matter of fact, you'll find that I argued to introduce classes in all religions to public school curriculum.

My intent with the Aclausian tack was to illustrate how a non-belief doesn't equate a religion, not to ridicule anyone's beliefs.

I also have a public anouncement to make:
There will be a meeting of the B.O.O.T.W.D.B.I.T.T.F. next Saturday in our Main Assembly Hall.

I notice that you ignore the definition of religion when you attempt to define Atheism as something other than a religion.

Neither does Secular Humanism have Priests, etc. However it is definitely a religion. Theravada Buddhism does not deal at all with a Deity, however it is also a religion. There is some assumption that one needs Priests in order to have a religion, but that isn't correct either.

Atheism definitely fits in with the fourth definition of religion in the Websters Dictionary as outlined above. Those the follow the cause, and work toward those things outlined above are clearly following that very definition that regards nothing about Priests or Higher Powers at all.

I personally have heard Atheists that do promote their belief above those beliefs that include a Deity. Regardless that is anecdotal and inadmissable, but it is clear when they attempt to exclude other's religious symbols that they are definitely working toward their belief system to be the only one publicly displayed.

They group together. http://www.atheists.org/

They gather under one roof to raise "awareness".

They sell calendars and take donations for their cause. The only thing that they do is attempt to make it look like it isn't a religion by not calling the leaders of their "movements" priests. I don't care what they are called, Atheists often are religious in their fervor and definitely are often found attempting to convince others of their beliefs.

I personally used to do this when I was an Atheist, once again anecdotal but I definitely know it to be true.

 

[manu1959]

The only one grasping at straws is yourself. Trying to categorize atheism as a religion so you can whine about the theory of evolution being taught in public schools. BTW, are you an Aclausian?

well smart guy an accepted definition of religion is: "a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices"

so if i create it, then it is so and therfore a religion....you do not have to accept it ... but it is still so, because i belive and say it is.

 

[no1tovote4]

Here is a nice site where they gather together and attempt to convince others to follow their belief as well.

http://groups.msn.com/AtheistVSGod/homepage

These evangelical Atheists are looking for "one smart Christian" and "know it will be impossible to find" to discuss their particular beliefs.

Here is a website dedicated to Atheist Groups and how to get in touch with them. Etc.

http://www.geocities.com/hashish_arizona/a9010002.html

Just like a church, intersting again.....

These support groups are simply a different name for a church, like synagogues or temples. That they don't meet every Sunday means nothing again. These groups that attempt to promote their beliefs over those of other's and work to remove the symbolism of other beliefs systems are just as religious as any Church working to get a Christian Choir into the Christmas Day Parade in Denver, CO.

 

[MissileMan]

I notice that you ignore the definition of religion when you attempt to define Atheism as something other than a religion.

I used the definition of religion that deals with a belief system, you use the definition that deals with hobbies...as the definition of atheism is the disbelief in God, the appropriate definition of religion for this argument would deal with the belief in God, not a zeal for one's hobby.

They group together. http://www.atheists.org/

Having a website means they are a religion? That does it, I'm converting to Playboyism!

 

[MissileMan]

well smart guy an accepted definition of religion is: "a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices"

so if i create it, then it is so and therfore a religion....you do not have to accept it ... but it is still so, because i belive and say it is.

So what are you saying, that atheism is a religion because you say so?

 

[manu1959]

the appropriate definition of religion for this argument would deal with the belief in God.

that is quite convenient ... but some how does not seem toooooooo...shall we saw lib PC and inclusive for all who wish to practice freedom of religion of thier choice

 

[manu1959]

So what are you saying, that atheism is a religion because you say so?

yep

 

[ScreamingEagle]

The only one grasping at straws is yourself. Trying to categorize atheism as a religion so you can whine about the theory of evolution being taught in public schools. BTW, are you an Aclausian?

What's an Aclausian? Someone who doesn't believe in Santa Claus? If so, I guess I am. So yes, I see how you are trying to show that it is a non-belief like atheism is a non-belief. And that it is not a religion per se.

However, atheism still fits the definition for religion: "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion". Seems to me that the atheists are quite zealous in their cause to deGod our society because it affects their "sensibilities" or beliefs. And why should our government support one cause or belief over another?

As No1ToVote4 said you are ignoring some of Webster's definitions. You are just picking out the ones you like. He also gave you additional reasons why atheism is considered to be quite similiar to a religion.

 

[no1tovote4]

I used the definition of religion that deals with a belief system, you use the definition that deals with hobbies...as the definition of atheism is the disbelief in God, the appropriate definition of religion for this argument would deal with the belief in God, not a zeal for one's hobby.

It doesn't deal with hobbies or it would say it deals with hobbies, this is a definition of religion.

4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

This would be a cause, and a principle coupled with activities all followed with conscientious devotion: Atheism. There are those that do follow it just this way.

Having a website means they are a religion? That does it, I'm converting to Playboyism!

1. You spoke about meeting places and Priests. I gave examples of where you can go to meet Atheists by giving you addresses to several places where you can get information about their support Groups. You talk of Playboy in a quasifascetious way as if that simply discredited the evidence before your eyes, well it doesn't.

2. You said that Atheists don't attempt to convince others in their belief I showed another site that shows that they do. Your answer to this was to simply ignore that particular site in your post.

3. You said Atheism doesn't match the definition of religion because religion includes a belief in a Higher Power. I mention my religion that does not promote or deny a belief in a Higher Power, you don't address that. I give you the definition and show how it matches then you attempt to add to the definition words that are clearly not there.


Your argument has simply fallen apart, I have proven you wrong on every point with links and direct definitions. You have nothing and have given no evidence to back up your belief other than witticism in an attempt to discredit. It didn't work, you still have lost this one.

 

[MissileMan]

the appropriate definition of religion for this argument would deal with the belief in God.

that is quite convenient ... but some how does not seem toooooooo...shall we saw lib PC and inclusive for all who wish to practice freedom of religion of thier choice

You're so right, I shouldn't quote anything as politically incorrect as the dictionary!

 

[manu1959]

Seems to me that the atheists are quite zealous in their cause to deGod our society because it affects their "sensibilities" or beliefs.

point well taken....but i would say every group has its missionaries .... spokesmen and live and let live crew

 

[ScreamingEagle]

point well taken....but i would say every group has its missionaries .... spokesmen and live and let live crew

Yep, that blows MissleMan's argument that atheists don't have "missionaries" or spokesmen or meetings or whatever to expouse their belief(s) as No1 pointed out quite well.

Not to mention that he also cannot prove that atheism is NOT a religion.

 

[manu1959]

Yep, that blows MissleMan's argument that atheists don't have "missionaries" or spokesmen or meetings or whatever to expouse their belief(s) as No1 pointed out quite well.

if the left get's their way you will have religion as practiced in the soviet union ... it will be called government ... "double plus good!"

 

[no1tovote4]

Time for bed folks, will see you all later.