What is a vital U.S. Interest?

[1776]

Liberals and losertarians are too stupid to understand the effects of allowing China and Russia to invade weaker neighbors. There are economic and military outcomes to evil people taking over weaker innocent people.

Of course, these are the same shitbags that are ok with Iran getting nukes so that they can wipe the US and Israel off the face of the Earth.

There is always that human rights thing too....which clearly shows they are full of shit not caring about other people's plight.

 

[bluesman]

They were actively exporting Communism and sponsoring Communist expansion all over the world.

Unlike you, THEY saw it as a good thing for their objective of world domination.

Barack Obama Sr.was a supporter of Communism in Kenya as the answer to British colonialism.

Barack Obama Jr. took his father's dreams and made them his own.

Anyone starting to connect the dots now?

Hmmm?

Wow. I can't believe you actually did that.

You went from talking about involvement in Viet Nam and communist expansion and went right into bashing Obama.

Kudos for being a hard-core Obama-hater and not being ashamed to just randomly interject Obama-hate talk. I am sure your people will be very happy with you.

Every day more and more people get wise to what Obama is doing to this country. I am doing what I can to tie things in to Obama so they will start thinking about the bigger picture by looking at the small things.

Who knows? Today might be your day to get smart.

Well, if enough people get onboard with you, then you can be assured that he will not win in 2016. For now I guess we, as constitutionalists, just have to respect the constitutional process and do the old fashioned American true conservative thing and just be respectful to democratically elected the commander-in-chief.

 

[Redfish]

Really?

We killed 2 Million Communists.

Hardly a waste.

Too bad we couldn't kill a few hundred million more.

Besides, if you want to blame somebody for Viet Nam, blame JFK and LBJ. Nixon was handed a War we were losing, he won it, and dimocrap scum gave away the victory.....

And between 3 and 4 Million innocent people were murdered by communist scum afterwards.

You should stay out of things you don't understand.

we are usually on the same page, but I must disagree with you on this.
1. we did not win in viet nam-----we lost
2. yes we killed a lot of vietnamese, our govt lied about how many
3. 58,000 good americans died and we spent billions and what we were trying to prevent happened anyway.

Do you know just HOW CLOSE we were to actually WINNING???

Amazon Exclusive Essay: "New Vietnam War History" by Lewis Sorley, Author of A Better War

For a long time most people thought the long years of American involvement in the Vietnam War were just more of the same--with a bad ending. Now we know that during the latter years, when General Creighton Abrams commanded U.S. forces, almost everything changed, and for the better.

Abrams understood the nature of the war and devised a more availing approach to the conduct of it. Building up South Vietnam's own armed forces got high priority, whereas before they had been neglected and allowed to go into combat outgunned by the enemy.

The covert infrastructure which through terror and coercion kept South Vietnam's rural population under domination was painstakingly rooted out, not ignored as earlier. And combat operations were greatly improved, concentrating on large numbers of patrols and ambushes designed to provide security for the people rather than cumbersome large-unit sweeps through the deep jungle.

Some commentators have called the description of these changes "revisionist" history, but actually it is new history.

Virtually all the better-known earlier books about the war concentrated heavily on the early years, leaving the later period grossly neglected.

New insight came importantly from a collection of hundreds of tape recordings of briefings and staff meetings in General Abrams's headquarters during the four years he commanded in Vietnam. They are filled with human drama, professional debate, successes and frustrations, and ultimately a hard-won triumph, told in the voices of Abrams and his senior associates; such visiting officials as the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; and a succession of often brilliant briefing officers.

Later, of course, what they had won was thrown away by the United States Congress, but the story of their better war is still a dramatic testament to courage, integrity, devotion, and professional competence.--Lewis Sorley

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Better-War-Unexamined-Victories-Americas/dp/0156013096/?tag=digitalca0daa06-20]A Better War: The Unexamined Victories and Final Tragedy of America's Last Years in Vietnam: Lewis Sorley: 9780156013093: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

Most Helpful Customer Reviews

136 of 148 people found the following review helpful
Author Sorley Corrects the Record
By Stuart A. Herrington on May 16, 2000
Format: Hardcover

Author Lewis Sorley has done all Americans, especially Vietnam veterans, a service by producing this meticulously researched, balanced study of the Vietnam War's final (post-Westmoreland) years. I served almost four years in Vietnam between January 1971 and the fall of Saigon on 30 April 1975.

I rarely review books about the war because too many of them evoke the sentiment, "If that was Vietnam, where was I?" But as one who fought the Vietcong guerrillas and struggled to ferret out their shadow government, who felt the fury of the NVA's 1972 Easter Offensive, and who ultimately left Vietnam on a marine helicopter from the embassy roof, I can say without qualification that author Sorley has got it right.

He is on the mark when he points out the success of Cambodian sanctuary raids in 1970 and the long-overdue, successful emphasis on pacification pushed by General Abrams and Ambassador Bunker.

He is equally correct in his statement that, by late 1972, it was our war to lose as Hanoi's legions faltered in disarray in the wake of the 13-division attack on South Vietnam that had been launched to bolster sagging revolutionary morale in the South.

I served in a province that, under the Westmoreland strategy, was a revolutionary hotbed, where a simple trip to pick up the mail was an invitation to ambush. When Abrams, Colby, Vann, and Bunker got their hands on the throttle, this same province became a different place, with significant increases in security, massive morale problems and defections among the Vietcong cadre who had once ruled the countryside, and a significant economic upturn.

This was the Vietnam of Sorley's "Better War." Sadly, as some of the reviews of this fine work demonstrate, the truth about that tragic war is too painful to some aging, unreconstructed members of the antiwar movement, some of whom cannot, 25 years later, admit that their love affair with the feisty Vietcong was misplaced, or that their country's men and women in arms had sown the seeds of victory under General Abrams. Bravo Sorley!

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Better-War-Unexamined-Victories-Americas/dp/0156013096/?tag=digitalca0daa06-20]A Better War: The Unexamined Victories and Final Tragedy of America's Last Years in Vietnam: Lewis Sorley: 9780156013093: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]


We snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Who's to blame?

Congress.

Yes, we were very close to "winning". But what would we have won? the opportuity to have american troops in viet nam for the next 50 years?

There was nothing to win.

 

[Redfish]

Liberals and losertarians are too stupid to understand the effects of allowing China and Russia to invade weaker neighbors. There are economic and military outcomes to evil people taking over weaker innocent people.

Of course, these are the same shitbags that are ok with Iran getting nukes so that they can wipe the US and Israel off the face of the Earth.

There is always that human rights thing too....which clearly shows they are full of shit not caring about other people's plight.

nice sentiments, but who put us in charge of policing the world and losing our young people in the process?

who gave us the charter to tell the rest of the world how to live?

But seriously, how would the US be damaged if south korea was taken over by north korea (actually china) ? How would the US be damaged if China took Taiwan back?

and while you are working on those, how is the US damaged when the people of crimea vote to rejoin Russia.?

 

[Redfish]

It's the magnitude of the current situation. Right now our own Government is a more a of threat to us than any foreign nation, even mainstream news polls reflect this opinion.

That is crazy talk. But if you truly feel that way I get it why your moniker is the name of the amendment that is about militias.

As bad as our government is, they dont hold a candle to RUssia, Iran, and China.

the difference is that the govts of those countries are trying to make their country stronger. Our current leader is making the US weaker--------because he hates this country and wants to punish it for its past successes and slavery.

 

[1776]

Shitbag...if North Korea was able to overrun South Korea and got access to their weapons, technology and wealth.....Japan would be in serious danger.

Since we do major trade with Japan and South Korea, shitbag, losing those two countries as trade partners would even harm you in your trailer park.

As for ignoring Russia's violation of treaties and international law in Crimea, you are setting the table for them doing it in the rest of Ukraine, the Baltics, Balkans, etc....yes you are that fucking stupid.

Mouth-breathers like you in the 1930s helped get millions killed worldwide because you claimed Germany and Japan weren't bothering the USA....

Liberals and losertarians are too stupid to understand the effects of allowing China and Russia to invade weaker neighbors. There are economic and military outcomes to evil people taking over weaker innocent people.

Of course, these are the same shitbags that are ok with Iran getting nukes so that they can wipe the US and Israel off the face of the Earth.

There is always that human rights thing too....which clearly shows they are full of shit not caring about other people's plight.

nice sentiments, but who put us in charge of policing the world and losing our young people in the process?

who gave us the charter to tell the rest of the world how to live?

But seriously, how would the US be damaged if south korea was taken over by north korea (actually china) ? How would the US be damaged if China took Taiwan back?

and while you are working on those, how is the US damaged when the people of crimea vote to rejoin Russia.?

 

[velvtacheeze]

The libs here, and their fellow travelling narco-libertarians, maintain that Ukraine is not a vital US interest and we need to stay away.
So what is a vital U.S. interest? Philippines? Cuba? Hawaii? California? At what point is action of any kind a necessity?

What a stupid post.

Hawaii? California? Why do you mention them?

Let's make this easy: When we are attacked, we can attack back. Not before then.

 

[1776]

Trailer trash....it isn't smart to be weak and allow someone to attack you in the first place.

I guess you prefer waiting until someone breaks into your trailer instead of projecting to criminals that breaking in is a big mistake.

The libs here, and their fellow travelling narco-libertarians, maintain that Ukraine is not a vital US interest and we need to stay away.
So what is a vital U.S. interest? Philippines? Cuba? Hawaii? California? At what point is action of any kind a necessity?

What a stupid post.

Hawaii? California? Why do you mention them?

Let's make this easy: When we are attacked, we can attack back. Not before then.

 

[Redfish]

Shitbag...if North Korea was able to overrun South Korea and got access to their weapons, technology and wealth.....Japan would be in serious danger.

Since we do major trade with Japan and South Korea, shitbag, losing those two countries as trade partners would even harm you in your trailer park.

As for ignoring Russia's violation of treaties and international law in Crimea, you are setting the table for them doing in the rest of Ukraine, the Baltics, Balkans, etc....yes you are that fucking stupid.

Mouth-breathers like you in the 1930s helped get millions killed worldwide because you claimed Germany and Japan weren't bothering the USA....

Liberals and losertarians are too stupid to understand the effects of allowing China and Russia to invade weaker neighbors. There are economic and military outcomes to evil people taking over weaker innocent people.

Of course, these are the same shitbags that are ok with Iran getting nukes so that they can wipe the US and Israel off the face of the Earth.

There is always that human rights thing too....which clearly shows they are full of shit not caring about other people's plight.

nice sentiments, but who put us in charge of policing the world and losing our young people in the process?

who gave us the charter to tell the rest of the world how to live?

But seriously, how would the US be damaged if south korea was taken over by north korea (actually china) ? How would the US be damaged if China took Taiwan back?

and while you are working on those, how is the US damaged when the people of crimea vote to rejoin Russia.?

Grow up, namecalling makes you look like an incompetent child. whoever owns North and south korea has to take care of them, they are not self sufficient in fuel, food, defense, or anything else. Taking care of them is expensive. China would much rather see us spend our money on them.

Russia did not violate any treaties in crimea. The people voted to rejoin Russia. The people said "fuck you" to the treaties and to the rest of Ukraine. Its none of our fucking business.

 

[deltex1]

Honoring our treaties would strike me as vital...

As long as they are well thought out, honorable, effective, productive treaties....can we name a few?

 

[Redfish]

Trailer trash....it isn't smart to be weak and allow someone to attack you in the first place.

I guess you prefer waiting until someone breaks into your trailer instead of projecting to criminals that breaking in is a big mistake.

The libs here, and their fellow travelling narco-libertarians, maintain that Ukraine is not a vital US interest and we need to stay away.
So what is a vital U.S. interest? Philippines? Cuba? Hawaii? California? At what point is action of any kind a necessity?

What a stupid post.

Hawaii? California? Why do you mention them?

Let's make this easy: When we are attacked, we can attack back. Not before then.

put your response at the bottom of the post like a normal human being.

an attack on ukraine is not an attack on the USA, any more than an attack by the congo or uganda is an attack on the USA.

 

[1776]

You stupid fuck SOB....Russia invaded Ukraine and stole Crimea. They signed a Treaty with Ukraine, the US and others to protect Ukraine....from an invasion.

Even your liberal goons in DC understand Russia's bogus election in Crimea is.....bogus.

You are a kook among kooks.

Shitbag...if North Korea was able to overrun South Korea and got access to their weapons, technology and wealth.....Japan would be in serious danger.

Since we do major trade with Japan and South Korea, shitbag, losing those two countries as trade partners would even harm you in your trailer park.

As for ignoring Russia's violation of treaties and international law in Crimea, you are setting the table for them doing in the rest of Ukraine, the Baltics, Balkans, etc....yes you are that fucking stupid.

Mouth-breathers like you in the 1930s helped get millions killed worldwide because you claimed Germany and Japan weren't bothering the USA....

nice sentiments, but who put us in charge of policing the world and losing our young people in the process?

who gave us the charter to tell the rest of the world how to live?

But seriously, how would the US be damaged if south korea was taken over by north korea (actually china) ? How would the US be damaged if China took Taiwan back?

and while you are working on those, how is the US damaged when the people of crimea vote to rejoin Russia.?

Grow up, namecalling makes you look like an incompetent child. whoever owns North and south korea has to take care of them, they are not self sufficient in fuel, food, defense, or anything else. Taking care of them is expensive. China would much rather see us spend our money on them.

Russia did not violate any treaties in crimea. The people voted to rejoin Russia. The people said "fuck you" to the treaties and to the rest of Ukraine. Its none of our fucking business.

 

[1776]

Obama being dumber than a rock, is smarter than you....kook.

Trailer trash....it isn't smart to be weak and allow someone to attack you in the first place.

I guess you prefer waiting until someone breaks into your trailer instead of projecting to criminals that breaking in is a big mistake.

What a stupid post.

Hawaii? California? Why do you mention them?

Let's make this easy: When we are attacked, we can attack back. Not before then.

put your response at the bottom of the post like a normal human being.

an attack on ukraine is not an attack on the USA, any more than an attack by the congo or uganda is an attack on the USA.

 

[Redfish]

You stupid fuck SOB....Russia invaded Ukraine and stole Crimea. They signed a Treaty with Ukraine, the US and others to protect Ukraine....from an invasion.

Even your liberal goons in DC understand Russia's bogus election in Crimea is.....bogus.

You are a kook among kooks.

Shitbag...if North Korea was able to overrun South Korea and got access to their weapons, technology and wealth.....Japan would be in serious danger.

Since we do major trade with Japan and South Korea, shitbag, losing those two countries as trade partners would even harm you in your trailer park.

As for ignoring Russia's violation of treaties and international law in Crimea, you are setting the table for them doing in the rest of Ukraine, the Baltics, Balkans, etc....yes you are that fucking stupid.

Mouth-breathers like you in the 1930s helped get millions killed worldwide because you claimed Germany and Japan weren't bothering the USA....

Grow up, namecalling makes you look like an incompetent child. whoever owns North and south korea has to take care of them, they are not self sufficient in fuel, food, defense, or anything else. Taking care of them is expensive. China would much rather see us spend our money on them.

Russia did not violate any treaties in crimea. The people voted to rejoin Russia. The people said "fuck you" to the treaties and to the rest of Ukraine. Its none of our fucking business.

reply goes at the bottom, either do it right or I will stop responding to you.


the people of crimea voted. are we to overturn the will of the people by force? WTF is wrong with you? why do you want us in another no-win war?

 

[Redfish]

Obama being dumber than a rock, is smarter than you....kook.

Trailer trash....it isn't smart to be weak and allow someone to attack you in the first place.

I guess you prefer waiting until someone breaks into your trailer instead of projecting to criminals that breaking in is a big mistake.

put your response at the bottom of the post like a normal human being.

an attack on ukraine is not an attack on the USA, any more than an attack by the congo or uganda is an attack on the USA.

here's how you do it. put your cursor at the bottom of the post you are replying to and start typing. even a moron like you should be able to grasp that.

 

[1776]

Kook....and Putin's cocksucker.

Obama being dumber than a rock, is smarter than you....kook.

put your response at the bottom of the post like a normal human being.

an attack on ukraine is not an attack on the USA, any more than an attack by the congo or uganda is an attack on the USA.

here's how you do it. put your cursor at the bottom of the post you are replying to and start typing. even a moron like you should be able to grasp that.

 

[velvtacheeze]

I have an example from history: Ending slavery and bringing the treason states to heel through military force. It was time to get brutal.

It's sad really. So many southern conservatives whine about Obama being weak, but then throw a major pity party about General Sherman. The South deserved to get hit hard, and probably deserved to get hit harder than it did. They only have themselves to blame for it all.

 

[Redfish]

Kook....and Putin's cocksucker.

Obama being dumber than a rock, is smarter than you....kook.

here's how you do it. put your cursor at the bottom of the post you are replying to and start typing. even a moron like you should be able to grasp that.

you really don't know how to do it, do you?

 

[Redfish]

I have an example from history: Ending slavery and bringing the treason states to heel through military force. It was time to get brutal.

It's sad really. So many southern conservatives whine about Obama being weak, but then throw a major pity party about General Sherman. The South deserved to get hit hard, and probably deserved to get hit harder than it did. They only have themselves to blame for it all.

your understanding of history is as empty as your understanding of current events. you know nothing about the south, the north, or the civil war.

but I bet you can sing the obama fight song------------------lets hear it--------------"barack hussein obama mmm mmm mmm"

 

[Mojo2]

we are usually on the same page, but I must disagree with you on this.
1. we did not win in viet nam-----we lost
2. yes we killed a lot of vietnamese, our govt lied about how many
3. 58,000 good americans died and we spent billions and what we were trying to prevent happened anyway.

Do you know just HOW CLOSE we were to actually WINNING???



[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Better-War-Unexamined-Victories-Americas/dp/0156013096/?tag=digitalca0daa06-20]A Better War: The Unexamined Victories and Final Tragedy of America's Last Years in Vietnam: Lewis Sorley: 9780156013093: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

Most Helpful Customer Reviews

136 of 148 people found the following review helpful
Author Sorley Corrects the Record
By Stuart A. Herrington on May 16, 2000
Format: Hardcover

Author Lewis Sorley has done all Americans, especially Vietnam veterans, a service by producing this meticulously researched, balanced study of the Vietnam War's final (post-Westmoreland) years. I served almost four years in Vietnam between January 1971 and the fall of Saigon on 30 April 1975.

I rarely review books about the war because too many of them evoke the sentiment, "If that was Vietnam, where was I?" But as one who fought the Vietcong guerrillas and struggled to ferret out their shadow government, who felt the fury of the NVA's 1972 Easter Offensive, and who ultimately left Vietnam on a marine helicopter from the embassy roof, I can say without qualification that author Sorley has got it right.

He is on the mark when he points out the success of Cambodian sanctuary raids in 1970 and the long-overdue, successful emphasis on pacification pushed by General Abrams and Ambassador Bunker.

He is equally correct in his statement that, by late 1972, it was our war to lose as Hanoi's legions faltered in disarray in the wake of the 13-division attack on South Vietnam that had been launched to bolster sagging revolutionary morale in the South.

I served in a province that, under the Westmoreland strategy, was a revolutionary hotbed, where a simple trip to pick up the mail was an invitation to ambush. When Abrams, Colby, Vann, and Bunker got their hands on the throttle, this same province became a different place, with significant increases in security, massive morale problems and defections among the Vietcong cadre who had once ruled the countryside, and a significant economic upturn.

This was the Vietnam of Sorley's "Better War." Sadly, as some of the reviews of this fine work demonstrate, the truth about that tragic war is too painful to some aging, unreconstructed members of the antiwar movement, some of whom cannot, 25 years later, admit that their love affair with the feisty Vietcong was misplaced, or that their country's men and women in arms had sown the seeds of victory under General Abrams. Bravo Sorley!

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Better-War-Unexamined-Victories-Americas/dp/0156013096/?tag=digitalca0daa06-20]A Better War: The Unexamined Victories and Final Tragedy of America's Last Years in Vietnam: Lewis Sorley: 9780156013093: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]


We snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Who's to blame?

Congress.

Yes, we were very close to "winning". But what would we have won? the opportuity to have american troops in viet nam for the next 50 years?

There was nothing to win.

Goddam some of you children regard freedom so casually!

It will take having lost it for you to value it.

That is a lesson you should never have to learn first hand but I'm afraid you are going to write your own destiny.

You are not a Conservative at heart.

You sound like a Mullatto Liberal.