What income level

[The Rabbi]

TARP rescued a crashing economy on the verge of Depression. Propping up the banks prevented an economic panic that would have destroyed the worldwide economy.

I commend both Bush and Obama for recognizing how critical it was to prevent massive bank failures

No, TARP did that sort of. Yes, it rescued the banks from freezing up. But it also got extended, under first Bush and now Obama, to virtually everything that looked like a financial institution.
So AIG got bailed out. Some of the brokerages got bailed out. GMAC got bailed out, three times now. Auto makers. You name it.
The intervention by the gov't has been massive and unprecedented. There is an article by James Grant in his newsletter on this.
The down side of all that is that it has prolonged the recession and will make recovery difficult and the expansion phase less robust.

 

[veritas]

Is it my imagination, or was TARP the single largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to ever occur in the history of the world?

TARP was a drop in the bucket. Bailing out GM was imperative. Why you ask? Because ten times TARP or maybe 100 times is flung all about the globe by investors in synthetic CDOs and CDSs. These instruments were all based on corporate bonds and equity tranches.....and leverage. There is no there, there. You have no idea how insidious the whole scheme is. And we haven't even made a tiny dent in it. Iceland was bankrupted by these types of instruments. AIG is up to its eyeballs in this crap. It's all unregulated and unrecorded.

 

[Ravi]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't afford to support this government anymore.

Really? Are you about to go on welfare or are you just being hyperbolic?

 

[alan1]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't afford to support this government anymore.

Really? Are you about to go on welfare or are you just being hyperbolic?

I'm not about to go on welfare.
I can't afford to support our government either financially or politically.

 

[alan1]

do you need to have to support our current government?

I suppose if you are incredibly poor you can support the government because you are living off of the handouts.
I suppose if you are incredibly rich you can support the government because you have enough money to do so.
I suppose if you (non-person entity) are a large but bankrupt corporation, you can support the government because you are getting a bail out.

But those of us that fall in between incredibly poor and incredibly rich can't afford it anymore.

Is it my imagination, or was TARP the single largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to ever occur in the history of the world?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't afford to support this government anymore.

Actually, the largest transer of wealth already occured.

Dick Cheney had secret meetings with the oil companies to plan America's energy needs that led to the largest company profits in the history of the world. These illegal meetings were unsucceffuly challenged all the way up to the Supreme Court by the Seirra Club.

Tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans which led to moving jobs overseas and moved the burdon of government and the cost of the military to the middle class.

All the no bid contracts for Katrina, Iraq and Afghanistan.

These three events have led to the greatest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the top 3% in this history of the world. Considering that Republicans DIDN'T EVEN INCLUDE THE COST OF EITHER WAR in their budgets and left every large institution and industry teetering on the verge of collapse, the money Obama has poured into the country to keep us from world wide collapse, has been peanuts compared to what was accomplished by the Republican strategy. You guys have to know that. How can you not? It was part of our history for the last eight years.

Tax cuts aren't a transfer of wealth, but TARP was.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

do you need to have to support our current government?

I suppose if you are incredibly poor you can support the government because you are living off of the handouts.
I suppose if you are incredibly rich you can support the government because you have enough money to do so.
I suppose if you (non-person entity) are a large but bankrupt corporation, you can support the government because you are getting a bail out.

But those of us that fall in between incredibly poor and incredibly rich can't afford it anymore.

Is it my imagination, or was TARP the single largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to ever occur in the history of the world?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't afford to support this government anymore.

Actually, the largest transer of wealth already occured.

Dick Cheney had secret meetings with the oil companies to plan America's energy needs that led to the largest company profits in the history of the world. These illegal meetings were unsucceffuly challenged all the way up to the Supreme Court by the Seirra Club.

Tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans which led to moving jobs overseas and moved the burdon of government and the cost of the military to the middle class.

All the no bid contracts for Katrina, Iraq and Afghanistan.

These three events have led to the greatest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the top 3% in this history of the world. Considering that Republicans DIDN'T EVEN INCLUDE THE COST OF EITHER WAR in their budgets and left every large institution and industry teetering on the verge of collapse, the money Obama has poured into the country to keep us from world wide collapse, has been peanuts compared to what was accomplished by the Republican strategy. You guys have to know that. How can you not? It was part of our history for the last eight years.

WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dick Cheney!!!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!

rdean...you are certifiably crazy!!!!

 

[Ravi]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't afford to support this government anymore.

Really? Are you about to go on welfare or are you just being hyperbolic?

I'm not about to go on welfare.
I can't afford to support our government either financially or politically.

So then what...are you moving out of the US? Are you going to stop paying taxes and stop benefiting from anything the government does?

 

[Sarah G]

do you need to have to support our current government?

I suppose if you are incredibly poor you can support the government because you are living off of the handouts.
I suppose if you are incredibly rich you can support the government because you have enough money to do so.
I suppose if you (non-person entity) are a large but bankrupt corporation, you can support the government because you are getting a bail out.

But those of us that fall in between incredibly poor and incredibly rich can't afford it anymore.

Is it my imagination, or was TARP the single largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to ever occur in the history of the world?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't afford to support this government anymore.

Is it me or has your avvie become more aggressive than the last time I saw it...

 

[Fatality]

do you need to have to support our current government?

I suppose if you are incredibly poor you can support the government because you are living off of the handouts.
I suppose if you are incredibly rich you can support the government because you have enough money to do so.
I suppose if you (non-person entity) are a large but bankrupt corporation, you can support the government because you are getting a bail out.

But those of us that fall in between incredibly poor and incredibly rich can't afford it anymore.

Is it my imagination, or was TARP the single largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to ever occur in the history of the world?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't afford to support this government anymore.

great post, so true so true. youre a prophet!

 

[code1211]

TARP rescued a crashing economy on the verge of Depression. Propping up the banks prevented an economic panic that would have destroyed the worldwide economy.

I commend both Bush and Obama for recognizing how critical it was to prevent massive bank failures

Or did it just slow things down? Make the bleeding a little slower?
More and more banks fail everyday.

The government's actions to save the financial system - which happened primarily under Bush - saved the financial system and the economy from going into the Great Depression 2.0. Even as banks continue to fail, the economy would have collapsed had the government not back-stopped the system.

Even as banks fail today, the wealth of individuals represented by those banks is safe guarded as the accounts of the individuals are rolled into the purchasing entities.

The TARP was a pretty well conceived thingy for an on-the-fly, shoot from the hip decision.

Paulson said that he picked that number out of the air as a pretty big number that would show how serious the problem was. He had no idea what would be needed.

Bush spent half and left half for Obama to spend. I sometimes wonder if the roles were reversed, would Obama have shown Bush the same courtesy?

 

[alan1]

Really? Are you about to go on welfare or are you just being hyperbolic?

I'm not about to go on welfare.
I can't afford to support our government either financially or politically.

So then what...are you moving out of the US? Are you going to stop paying taxes and stop benefiting from anything the government does?

I have no plans to leave the country at this time.
It would be kind of hard for me to avoid income tax, as I have been paying into the system for over 30 years and am still employed. They might get a little suspicious if I just stopped paying.

 

[code1211]

do you need to have to support our current government?

I suppose if you are incredibly poor you can support the government because you are living off of the handouts.
I suppose if you are incredibly rich you can support the government because you have enough money to do so.
I suppose if you (non-person entity) are a large but bankrupt corporation, you can support the government because you are getting a bail out.

But those of us that fall in between incredibly poor and incredibly rich can't afford it anymore.

Is it my imagination, or was TARP the single largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to ever occur in the history of the world?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't afford to support this government anymore.

Actually, the largest transer of wealth already occured.

Dick Cheney had secret meetings with the oil companies to plan America's energy needs that led to the largest company profits in the history of the world. These illegal meetings were unsucceffuly challenged all the way up to the Supreme Court by the Seirra Club.

Tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans which led to moving jobs overseas and moved the burdon of government and the cost of the military to the middle class.

All the no bid contracts for Katrina, Iraq and Afghanistan.
These three events have led to the greatest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the top 3% in this history of the world. Considering that Republicans DIDN'T EVEN INCLUDE THE COST OF EITHER WAR in their budgets and left every large institution and industry teetering on the verge of collapse, the money Obama has poured into the country to keep us from world wide collapse, has been peanuts compared to what was accomplished by the Republican strategy. You guys have to know that. How can you not? It was part of our history for the last eight years.

WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dick Cheney!!!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!

rdean...you are certifiably crazy!!!!

I'm always amused by those that critique on a damned if you do and damned if you don't approach.

Those that hate Bush railed because the relief for Katrina Victims was slow. They also rail because no-bid contracts were let.

Which way do you want it? A government contract takes about 3 to 6 months to bid. This is if the RFP is already defined. Since any decision, any decision, involves a choice of one thing over another, any decision can be criticized.

Do you want quick relief or do you want immediate help?

I get my car fixed at the same garage all the time. Good work, fair cost and adaptable scheduling. I settled on this place after years of hunting for a good one. I don't need to re-bid every time i need an oil change.

 

[Ravi]

I'm not about to go on welfare.
I can't afford to support our government either financially or politically.

So then what...are you moving out of the US? Are you going to stop paying taxes and stop benefiting from anything the government does?

I have no plans to leave the country at this time.
It would be kind of hard for me to avoid income tax, as I have been paying into the system for over 30 years and am still employed. They might get a little suspicious if I just stopped paying.

Then I guess the only thing left for you to do is to quit eating Cheetos...that'll show em!

 

[veritas]

I don't think Bush had a clue about how the problem started or how it progressed. If you want to place blame, lay it at Reagan's feet and blame all that came after. None of them were smart enough to know what would come of it. Summers and Rubin missed it, they helped it along. Greenspan got smacked in the ass with it. The only people that could see it coming and said something were Royal Bank of Scotland and Warren Buffet and Brooksley Born of course.......but she got run out of town on a rail and Spitzer was caught with a hooker.......oh noes!!!

We're all being played. They're not telling you how bad it is. All the guys that can unravel the tranches have been bought off by the investment houses already. The matrices calculus is all proprietary intellectual property of the people that put together the Synthetic CDOs.

Privatize [and offshore] the profits. Socialize the losses. The vig takers are all holed up somewhere.

Bring Spitzer back. He wasn't in it for the money. He knows the ropes and how to get these guys.

 

[Polk]

do you need to have to support our current government?

I suppose if you are incredibly poor you can support the government because you are living off of the handouts.
I suppose if you are incredibly rich you can support the government because you have enough money to do so.
I suppose if you (non-person entity) are a large but bankrupt corporation, you can support the government because you are getting a bail out.

But those of us that fall in between incredibly poor and incredibly rich can't afford it anymore.

Is it my imagination, or was TARP the single largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to ever occur in the history of the world?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't afford to support this government anymore.

Actually, the largest transer of wealth already occured.

Dick Cheney had secret meetings with the oil companies to plan America's energy needs that led to the largest company profits in the history of the world. These illegal meetings were unsucceffuly challenged all the way up to the Supreme Court by the Seirra Club.

Tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans which led to moving jobs overseas and moved the burdon of government and the cost of the military to the middle class.

All the no bid contracts for Katrina, Iraq and Afghanistan.

These three events have led to the greatest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the top 3% in this history of the world. Considering that Republicans DIDN'T EVEN INCLUDE THE COST OF EITHER WAR in their budgets and left every large institution and industry teetering on the verge of collapse, the money Obama has poured into the country to keep us from world wide collapse, has been peanuts compared to what was accomplished by the Republican strategy. You guys have to know that. How can you not? It was part of our history for the last eight years.

Tax cuts aren't a transfer of wealth, but TARP was.

Yes they are. When the tax cuts result in other taxes being raised (such a reduced funds to states result in higher property, income, and sales taxes), that shifts the tax burden to a different set of the population, having the net effect of transferring wealth between the groups.

 

[alan1]

Actually, the largest transer of wealth already occured.

Dick Cheney had secret meetings with the oil companies to plan America's energy needs that led to the largest company profits in the history of the world. These illegal meetings were unsucceffuly challenged all the way up to the Supreme Court by the Seirra Club.

Tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans which led to moving jobs overseas and moved the burdon of government and the cost of the military to the middle class.

All the no bid contracts for Katrina, Iraq and Afghanistan.

These three events have led to the greatest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the top 3% in this history of the world. Considering that Republicans DIDN'T EVEN INCLUDE THE COST OF EITHER WAR in their budgets and left every large institution and industry teetering on the verge of collapse, the money Obama has poured into the country to keep us from world wide collapse, has been peanuts compared to what was accomplished by the Republican strategy. You guys have to know that. How can you not? It was part of our history for the last eight years.

Tax cuts aren't a transfer of wealth, but TARP was.

Yes they are. When the tax cuts result in other taxes being raised (such a reduced funds to states result in higher property, income, and sales taxes), that shifts the tax burden to a different set of the population, having the net effect of transferring wealth between the groups.

Never cut/reduce/limit government spending, that would be bad.

 

[Polk]

Tax cuts aren't a transfer of wealth, but TARP was.

Yes they are. When the tax cuts result in other taxes being raised (such a reduced funds to states result in higher property, income, and sales taxes), that shifts the tax burden to a different set of the population, having the net effect of transferring wealth between the groups.

Never cut/reduce/limit government spending, that would be bad.

Back in the real world, states aren't going to fire teachers and cops unless absolutely necessary. Making sure Bill Gates pays a little less in taxes though is worth firing cops and teachers though, according to you.

 

[amrchaos]

TARP rescued a crashing economy on the verge of Depression. Propping up the banks prevented an economic panic that would have destroyed the worldwide economy.

I commend both Bush and Obama for recognizing how critical it was to prevent massive bank failures

Hogwash...The bailout stopped nothing because we got over 10% unemployment and is inhibiting credit flow into our economy. They should have gone under just on principle alone.

My understanding was that the bailouts to the banks were to help keep the financial system from crashing.

The GM and that other company(ok--I am kidding. Toyota!) bailouts and cash for crunkers were to help keep the auto industry alive in America

And the Economic Stimulus ----So far it has not performed as was promised. I guess the word "Fail" do come to mind when considering that.

 

[Care4all]

Thx, PP. When they put "No Way!" in there does that mean they don't have to pay it back (I understand that it isn't going to happen with CITI) or is it more like editorializing it?

Even some of cit's money should be paid back while in bankruptcy the appointed judge divides up their assets proportionately among those who they owe money to.... I believe?

 

[Polk]

Privatize [and offshore] the profits. Socialize the losses. The vig takers are all holed up somewhere.

Lemon socialism.