What happened to the jobs?

[finebead]

You have to ask why the huge cost differential in labor cost.

The federal reserve has presided over a 99% decline in the value of the dollar since the fed was established early last century. This has caused huge inflation over the century. Wages kept pace in the first half of the 20th century, but purchasing power peaked for the US worker in the 70's.

Between robotics, computerization, and offshoring of jobs, there is now an excess of labor in the US, wages have stagnated for decades.

The average family is in a pickle. They kept up in the 70's - 90's by sending their wives into the workforce and becoming two income families. Now inflation has eaten through that trick.

The problem is the fed and inflation. They have been lying to the public for years, understating inflation to curb cost of living adjustments (COLA's) to social security recipients and govt. retirees (actually attempting to retard spending).

We look to the president to solve this, but he can't. The fed has to do a better job controlling inflation, so we don't have to push for such high wages to keep our standard of living up. This is why we have priced ourselves out of the labor market internationally.

Energy costs (oil), housing, healthcare costs, food, college tuition. Those are the big killers of the middle class.

We need a national energy policy aimed at getting us off oil over the next 30 years (at least reduce dependence, nat. gas?, could Boone Pickens be right?), and we need to curb increases in healthcare cost at twice the inflation rate year after year. We need fewer people, no more than two kids.

Neither the repubs nor the dems are addressing the real problem, IMO, maybe because they realize they can't. The repubs tried to overstimulate housing to get the economy going in the last decade, but that didn't work out too well.

The fed has been playing with interest rates for 50 years with no clear evidence that what they are doing really works. The Fed began cutting interest rates from 5.25% in Sept 2007 to zero by Jan 2009 to stimulate the economy which was obviously a failure. I think this recession proved that when business sees a serious problem in the economy, low interest rates are not going kick start the economy.

In a labor intensive economy, low interest rates and temporary tax cuts or a govt. stimulus package all work well to get the economy going (see the 50's and the 60's). After the nature of the economy transforms, to one that is highly automated and highly off-shored labor base, the same old stimuli don't work as well. Corp. sales and profits will improve, but they don't need as much domestic labor to achieve those improvements.

We will just have to learn to live with less, a lower standard of living. Smaller houses, smaller cars, smaller vacations (if you can afford any at all), less smart phones, just less.

 

[Trajan]

I would like to see good news like this more often. Rather than awarding huge contracts to overseas firms using "trade policy" as the determination, do whatever might be politically INcorrect if it means keeping jobs here. Let the EU solve their own unemployment problems.

Boeing gets $35 billion contract for KC-46A tanker - National Airlines/Airport | Examiner.com

For Boeing employees it means job security at manufacturing plants in Everett, WA and Kansas City, MO, where the old 767 assembly line was due to be shut down in 3 to 5 years. Estimates now indicate that plant may continue for another 30 years.

so you have no problem possibly taking in inferior product as long as the jobs are here?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Think EPA, taxes, China, Mexico, morratorium, bye bye birdie

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t3cBTb3xPc]YouTube - Ann-Margret BYE BYE BIRDIE title song[/ame]

 

[MaggieMae]

I would like to see good news like this more often. Rather than awarding huge contracts to overseas firms using "trade policy" as the determination, do whatever might be politically INcorrect if it means keeping jobs here. Let the EU solve their own unemployment problems.

Boeing gets $35 billion contract for KC-46A tanker - National Airlines/Airport | Examiner.com

For Boeing employees it means job security at manufacturing plants in Everett, WA and Kansas City, MO, where the old 767 assembly line was due to be shut down in 3 to 5 years. Estimates now indicate that plant may continue for another 30 years.

so you have no problem possibly taking in inferior product as long as the jobs are here?

I'd prefer that none of our planes be built nor maintained by any overseas company. But you might have explained why you think Boeing produces an inferior product.

 

[MaggieMae]

You have to ask why the huge cost differential in labor cost.

The federal reserve has presided over a 99% decline in the value of the dollar since the fed was established early last century. This has caused huge inflation over the century. Wages kept pace in the first half of the 20th century, but purchasing power peaked for the US worker in the 70's.

Between robotics, computerization, and offshoring of jobs, there is now an excess of labor in the US, wages have stagnated for decades.

The average family is in a pickle. They kept up in the 70's - 90's by sending their wives into the workforce and becoming two income families. Now inflation has eaten through that trick.

The problem is the fed and inflation. They have been lying to the public for years, understating inflation to curb cost of living adjustments (COLA's) to social security recipients and govt. retirees (actually attempting to retard spending).

We look to the president to solve this, but he can't. The fed has to do a better job controlling inflation, so we don't have to push for such high wages to keep our standard of living up. This is why we have priced ourselves out of the labor market internationally.

Energy costs (oil), housing, healthcare costs, food, college tuition. Those are the big killers of the middle class.

We need a national energy policy aimed at getting us off oil over the next 30 years (at least reduce dependence, nat. gas?, could Boone Pickens be right?), and we need to curb increases in healthcare cost at twice the inflation rate year after year. We need fewer people, no more than two kids.

Neither the repubs nor the dems are addressing the real problem, IMO, maybe because they realize they can't. The repubs tried to overstimulate housing to get the economy going in the last decade, but that didn't work out too well.

The fed has been playing with interest rates for 50 years with no clear evidence that what they are doing really works. The Fed began cutting interest rates from 5.25% in Sept 2007 to zero by Jan 2009 to stimulate the economy which was obviously a failure. I think this recession proved that when business sees a serious problem in the economy, low interest rates are not going kick start the economy.

In a labor intensive economy, low interest rates and temporary tax cuts or a govt. stimulus package all work well to get the economy going (see the 50's and the 60's). After the nature of the economy transforms, to one that is highly automated and highly off-shored labor base, the same old stimuli don't work as well. Corp. sales and profits will improve, but they don't need as much domestic labor to achieve those improvements.

We will just have to learn to live with less, a lower standard of living. Smaller houses, smaller cars, smaller vacations (if you can afford any at all), less smart phones, just less.

Our "standard of living" at least for the last decade has been far too extravagant in the first place, as well as based on faux wealth. A wallet full of every credit card known to mankind doesn't equal personal wealth.

 

[Flopper]

I would like to see good news like this more often. Rather than awarding huge contracts to overseas firms using "trade policy" as the determination, do whatever might be politically INcorrect if it means keeping jobs here. Let the EU solve their own unemployment problems.

Boeing gets $35 billion contract for KC-46A tanker - National Airlines/Airport | Examiner.com

For Boeing employees it means job security at manufacturing plants in Everett, WA and Kansas City, MO, where the old 767 assembly line was due to be shut down in 3 to 5 years. Estimates now indicate that plant may continue for another 30 years.

so you have no problem possibly taking in inferior product as long as the jobs are here?

If EADS had won the contract, assemble would have been in Alabama. I suspect Boeing will created more jobs in the US, but I don't think that was ever an issue.

 

[Trajan]

I would like to see good news like this more often. Rather than awarding huge contracts to overseas firms using "trade policy" as the determination, do whatever might be politically INcorrect if it means keeping jobs here. Let the EU solve their own unemployment problems.

Boeing gets $35 billion contract for KC-46A tanker - National Airlines/Airport | Examiner.com

so you have no problem possibly taking in inferior product as long as the jobs are here?

I'd prefer that none of our planes be built nor maintained by any overseas company. But you might have explained why you think Boeing produces an inferior product.

I never said it did.

and you didn't answer the question- you have no problem possibly taking in inferior product as long as the jobs are here?

 

[Samson]

so you have no problem possibly taking in inferior product as long as the jobs are here?

I'd prefer that none of our planes be built nor maintained by any overseas company. But you might have explained why you think Boeing produces an inferior product.

I never said it did.

and you didn't answer the question- you have no problem possibly taking in inferior product as long as the jobs are here?

Don't people buy Chevy's anymore?

I''ve said it before: There are PLENTY of JOBS. Ask a Mexican.

 

[Brutus]

What Happened to our Jobs? Democrats destroyed them!
The Solution is Republican:

1) Make unions illegal
2) make minimum wage illegal
3) end business taxation
4) make inflation illegal
5) make Federal debt illegal
6) close borders to illegals
7) Pass Balanced Budget Amendment to Constitution
8) cut pay of government workers in half
9) Make health insurance competition legal
10) end needless business regulations
11) restrict Federal spending to 15% of GNP
12) support unlimited free trade
13) reduced unemployment compensation, welfare, food stamps, medicaid.
14) privatize education, social security
15) end payroll taxes

 

[Peeka]

As long as business owners and shareholders make a profit by shipping jobs overseas, it will be done and they will pay the lobbyists to ensure that laws are to their benefit. Notice that the stock market is up even though the American middle class is not working!! So those people in the upper levels of a business are doing well and do not want anyone to rock the boat. Sounds defeatist ... but dammit, there has to be a way to really fix this!! Notice that Obama's push to grow small businesses does not tell the new businesses NOT TO outsource their manufacturing or services. If they do, then they are just like the big businesses. Obama should also be telling big business to bring jobs back to the states. I wonder why he is not doing that?

 

[MaggieMae]

As long as business owners and shareholders make a profit by shipping jobs overseas, it will be done and they will pay the lobbyists to ensure that laws are to their benefit. Notice that the stock market is up even though the American middle class is not working!! So those people in the upper levels of a business are doing well and do not want anyone to rock the boat. Sounds defeatist ... but dammit, there has to be a way to really fix this!! Notice that Obama's push to grow small businesses does not tell the new businesses NOT TO outsource their manufacturing or services. If they do, then they are just like the big businesses. Obama should also be telling big business to bring jobs back to the states. I wonder why he is not doing that?

Legislation on limiting offshoring jobs failed last fall. The tax code needs to be changed so that corporations can't escape tax liability by keeping their business overseas. If they didn't have that incentive, maybe they wouldn't be so eager to move out of the country. (I don't even know why some corporations like GE even like to still call themselves "American" companies.)

 

[Brutus]

Obama should also be telling big business to bring jobs back to the states. I wonder why he is not doing that?

In a free country it is illegal. Business is free to operate wherever it can get its customers the lowest prices on earth. Do you really want business to operate where it is most expensive? We could afford far less than we can afford now.


Also, when Hawley-Smoot tried to regulate trade it caused the Great Depression

 

[Brutus]

Maggie: Legislation on limiting offshoring jobs failed last fall. The tax code needs to be changed so that corporations can't escape tax liability by keeping their business overseas.

Brutus: If they escape taxes they can offer lower prices so all of us get richer. Do you want to pay higher prices?

 

[Brutus]

I''ve said it before: There are PLENTY of JOBS. Ask a Mexican


Brutus: yes, and if the Democrats would close the borders there would be 10 million more jobs for Americans, and tremendous pressure to bid up their wages.

 

[rdean]

Anyone notice how the right blames the EPA. Birth defects in China have skyrocketed. The country is a cesspool. Entire towns are suffering from lead poisoning. When you ask Republicans if that's what they want here, they so, "No dummy, we only want to end EPA regulations that affect jobs". Hilarious.

Now get this, American corporations are moving their headquarters to an outhouse in Switzerland or someplace. They buy a 10,000 dollar building and call it headquarters. Because they don't want to pay the taxes here. But they want the security, clean air and clean water, the infrastructure, the institutions, but mostly the security. They just don't want to help pay for it. Kind of like Republicans.

 

[Brutus]

Anyone notice how the right blames the EPA. Birth defects in China have skyrocketed. The country is a cesspool.

Actually, China is now a paradise. Before they switched to capitalism 60 million died from slow en masse liberal starvation. Do you have an conception of how badly you misunderstand the world?? If you're 2you're doing good. If older,give up.

 

[Monkey Business]

I''ve said it before: There are PLENTY of JOBS. Ask a Mexican


Brutus: yes, and if the Democrats would close the borders there would be 10 million more jobs for Americans, and tremendous pressure to bid up their wages.

I''ve said it before: There are PLENTY of JOBS. Ask a Mexican

I wholeheartedly agree..........

 

[Flopper]

As long as business owners and shareholders make a profit by shipping jobs overseas, it will be done and they will pay the lobbyists to ensure that laws are to their benefit. Notice that the stock market is up even though the American middle class is not working!! So those people in the upper levels of a business are doing well and do not want anyone to rock the boat. Sounds defeatist ... but dammit, there has to be a way to really fix this!! Notice that Obama's push to grow small businesses does not tell the new businesses NOT TO outsource their manufacturing or services. If they do, then they are just like the big businesses. Obama should also be telling big business to bring jobs back to the states. I wonder why he is not doing that?

Legislation on limiting offshoring jobs failed last fall. The tax code needs to be changed so that corporations can't escape tax liability by keeping their business overseas. If they didn't have that incentive, maybe they wouldn't be so eager to move out of the country. (I don't even know why some corporations like GE even like to still call themselves "American" companies.)

Our corporate tax rate of 30% encourages corporation to move overseas where they can be taxed at half that amount.

Factories can be moved overseas and all costs can be written off.

A tax credit is granted for any foreign taxes paid.

One of the biggest loopholes is claiming expenses in the US where corporate rates are high and revenues abroad where taxes are low. For example, a computer company makes a chip in the US, ships it to a foreign country (that provides a tax holiday to attract the company manufacturing facility) where it is installed in a computer and returned to the US. Most of the costs (research administration sales and marketing) are assigned to the US operation but the revenue is credited to the foreign manufacturing operation. With a tax holiday the company pays no taxes in the foreign country and pays little or no taxes in the US. Once the tax holiday is over in that foreign country, the US company packs up and moves to another country where it receives another multiple-year tax holiday.

Obama has called for lower and revamping corporate taxes. There is a bill in the House. Bringing the both sides together on this will be a problem.

Taxes and Outsourcing of Jobs

 

[asterism]

What Happened to our Jobs? Democrats destroyed them!

The current crop did, true.

The Solution is Republican:

Um, no.

1) Make unions illegal

No, just get rid of the legalized thuggery.

2) make minimum wage illegal

I agree. Lower floor means higher potential. The costs associated with maintaining a fixed base are a drain. But there is a dynamic. No minimum wage means higher standards on workplace safety.

3) end business taxation

Yes, it's just a pass-through.

4) make inflation illegal

No, because that's a product of market conditions and no government that regulates inflation can rid itself of it.

5) make Federal debt illegal

No. WWII was important enough.

6) close borders to illegals

Depends on the cost.

7) Pass Balanced Budget Amendment to Constitution

No. A balance budget does not constrain spending, and it means Washington gets to pass tax increases without consequences.

8) cut pay of government workers in half

No. Cut benefits by 25%.

9) Make health insurance competition legal

Yes.

10) end needless business regulations

That's already going on. The difference is different perceptions of "needless."

11) restrict Federal spending to 15% of GNP

Make it GDP and I agree. 12 % is optimal in my opinion but I'll agree to 15%.

12) support unlimited free trade

Nope. No Nike factory in Chechnya employing 12 year old kids.

13) reduced unemployment compensation, welfare, food stamps, medicaid.

Actually, greater compensation but shorter time limits.

14) privatize education, social security

Provide a private option.

15) end payroll taxes

Yes.

Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation

 

[asterism]

As long as business owners and shareholders make a profit by shipping jobs overseas, it will be done and they will pay the lobbyists to ensure that laws are to their benefit. Notice that the stock market is up even though the American middle class is not working!! So those people in the upper levels of a business are doing well and do not want anyone to rock the boat. Sounds defeatist ... but dammit, there has to be a way to really fix this!! Notice that Obama's push to grow small businesses does not tell the new businesses NOT TO outsource their manufacturing or services. If they do, then they are just like the big businesses. Obama should also be telling big business to bring jobs back to the states. I wonder why he is not doing that?

Legislation on limiting offshoring jobs failed last fall. The tax code needs to be changed so that corporations can't escape tax liability by keeping their business overseas. If they didn't have that incentive, maybe they wouldn't be so eager to move out of the country. (I don't even know why some corporations like GE even like to still call themselves "American" companies.)

Instead of trying to create a disincentive for offshoring, why not create an incentive to keep and add jobs here?