What are the underlying principles of Modern liberalism?

[Finnguy]

I identify my self as a liberal although I consider my self more towards the left of the spectrum. If we had a Social Democrat party I would join it. But I believe in a large Social Safety Net, free education and healthcare, gay rights and civil unions, legalization of marijuana, a secular state, public transportation access for all, economic and environmental regulations, progressive taxation, centralized government, and a limited focus on defense. That means we don't have bases all over the world and have only a small professional military. The only time we should intervene in the world is for UN peacekeeping missions.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Liberty, Freedom, Justice and Tolerance.

That's classical liberalism (of which I am a proud member). Modern Liberalism is more akin to Marxism.

And whose fault is that? The proud classic liberals who are unwilling to defend a political idea that is less than 400 years in the making or the conservative defenders of the status quo who successfully polluted the connotation of the term in the 1950's & 60's so that they could continue their rule via misinformation and fear?

 

[AVG-JOE]

That classical liberalism. Modern Liberalism is more akin to Marxism.

It's amazing to me that people can seriously claim to know what other people believe better than they do.

Except when people confuse Liberalism in today's sense rather than Liberalism back in the 16th century.

But then again.. Some people have strong views from both and that's understandable.

It's a fight for control and distribution rights to the resources of the only planet we know of that can support life... Do you think the families and companies who came out of the European attempt at conquest of this planet in control of much of those resources are going to give up their substantial control with out a fight?

If you can keep your slaves in line using only misinformation, fear and their unwillingness to educate themselves, it's the fault of the slaves.

 

[California Girl]

Liberty, Freedom, Justice and Tolerance.

That's classical liberalism (of which I am a proud member). Modern Liberalism is more akin to Marxism.

I quite often describe myself as a classical liberal conservative.

Always funny to see the left desperately cling to the founders as a justification to take more of my money to give it to someone else.

 

[editec]

Id prefer to hear the answer from liberals themselves. I want to see what they say their underlying principles are.

That the PURPOSE of government is to serve THE PEOPLE OF THE NATION.

 

[California Girl]

Id prefer to hear the answer from liberals themselves. I want to see what they say their underlying principles are.

That the PURPOSE of government is to serve THE PEOPLE OF THE NATION.

According to our Constitution, in my opinion, the purpose of government is NOT to 'serve' the people. It is to:

1. Establish a more perfect union.
2. Establish justice
3. Provide for the common defense.

That's it. End of. It says so in the preamble... ie the reason behind the Articles.

 

[Truthmatters]

Liberty, Freedom, Justice and Tolerance.

That's classical liberalism (of which I am a proud member). Modern Liberalism is more akin to Marxism.

You dont get to define what we believe in.

 

[Truthmatters]

Id prefer to hear the answer from liberals themselves. I want to see what they say their underlying principles are.

That the PURPOSE of government is to serve THE PEOPLE OF THE NATION.

According to our Constitution, in my opinion, the purpose of government is NOT to 'serve' the people. It is to:

1. Establish a more perfect union.
2. Establish justice
3. Provide for the common defense.

That's it. End of. It says so in the preamble... ie the reason behind the Articles.

What do you think a more perfect union means?

 

[AVG-JOE]

It's amazing to me that people can seriously claim to know what other people believe better than they do.

Except when people confuse Liberalism in today's sense rather than Liberalism back in the 16th century.

But then again.. Some people have strong views from both and that's understandable.

Of course.

But the thread title reads "Modern Liberalism", not "Classical Liberalism".

As a political ideology, Liberalism is less than 200 years old. Sure, the fires of liberal thinking can be traced back to the Magna Carta , and the roots of "Liberalism" under that name (taken from the word 'liberty') stem from the French Revolution or so and what passed for political message boarding in the 1600's, but during the 19th century is when it grew into an 'ideology'.

Liberalism is way to young to have "classical" and "modern" camps that are polar opposites. Modern Socialists who call themselves Liberals are fools and modern Conservatives who call Socialists and Communists 'Liberal' are liars who are using misinformation and fear to remain in power.

Fuck the Fools and the Conservative Dick-taters.

 

[Truthmatters]

Jesus was a liberal

 

[AVG-JOE]

Liberalism is based on stupidity. It's based on a gut feeling of what one wishes were true or possible, but reality of the world does not agree with.

For example, total equality is impossible. Yet, liberalism, by definition, is the pursuit of equality. How much equality is enough? It's never enough. With each step towards equality, with success, comes the next endeavor of equality. The final result........a society in which every single aspect of life is dictated and controlled by a central authority in the name of "equality". And that can only be achieved with overwhelming force.

Got Link?

Here's one, but you're not going to like it unless you come to the discussion with an open mind, willing to be educated.

Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[AVG-JOE]

Liberty, Freedom, Justice and Tolerance.

That's classical liberalism (of which I am a proud member). Modern Liberalism is more akin to Marxism.

I quite often describe myself as a classical liberal conservative.

Always funny to see the left desperately cling to the founders as a justification to take more of my money to give it to someone else.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Id prefer to hear the answer from liberals themselves. I want to see what they say their underlying principles are.

That the PURPOSE of government is to serve THE PEOPLE OF THE NATION.

According to our Constitution, in my opinion, the purpose of government is NOT to 'serve' the people. It is to:

1. Establish a more perfect union.
2. Establish justice
3. Provide for the common defense.

That's it. End of. It says so in the preamble... ie the reason behind the Articles.

Can justice be served or defenders of a nation serve with honor without "Service to The People"?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Id prefer to hear the answer from liberals themselves. I want to see what they say their underlying principles are.

That the PURPOSE of government is to serve THE PEOPLE OF THE NATION.

According to our Constitution, in my opinion, the purpose of government is NOT to 'serve' the people. It is to:

1. Establish a more perfect union.
2. Establish justice
3. Provide for the common defense.

That's it. End of. It says so in the preamble... ie the reason behind the Articles.

Establish a more perfect union in whose opinion of what perfect is? I guarantee I don't want what I perceive as your opinion of perfect and I doubt you'll go for my opinion of a perfect union.

NOW what?!?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Jesus was a liberal

Jesus was a wine swilling out of work carpenter hippie who convinced the sheeple of his day that they were being ripped off by the ruling elite.

Definitely my kind of guy!

 

[Sallow]

Liberty, Freedom, Justice and Tolerance.

That's classical liberalism (of which I am a proud member). Modern Liberalism is more akin to Marxism.

Classical Liberalism is a conservative term. And total bullshit.

Liberals are liberals.

 

[Sallow]

Liberty, Freedom, Justice and Tolerance.

That's classical liberalism (of which I am a proud member). Modern Liberalism is more akin to Marxism.

And whose fault is that? The proud classic liberals who are unwilling to defend a political idea that is less than 400 years in the making or the conservative defenders of the status quo who successfully polluted the connotation of the term in the 1950's & 60's so that they could continue their rule via misinformation and fear?

There no such fucking thing as "Classical Liberalism". That's a Tory phrase for "We were a part of the revolution!"

Liberals aren't marxists.

One of the most liberal presidents was killed by a marxist.

Liberals hate commies.

Always have..always will.

 

[Intense]

Liberty, Freedom, Justice and Tolerance.

That classical liberalism. Modern Liberalism is more akin to Marxism.

It's amazing to me that people can seriously claim to know what other people believe better than they do.

Yes Comrade I Concur. They obviously are not reading the Memo's and do not seem to know the Talking Points. Let's Re Educate Them. Remember Comrade that We are alway's Free To Agree!

 

[midcan5]

"Liberals demand that the social order should in principle be capable of explaining itself at the tribunal of each person's understanding." Jeremy Waldron

Each person sees the world as they are, not as it is, the liberal sees the world just a bit clearer. I have written on this topic lots because being a conservative for me is simply abhorrent. Nothing in me would use the 'label,' and yet in some areas I am more conservative than conservatives, a paradox. Back to the label: I am never sure what it is they want to conserve? Often it is privilege or just simply a view of life that applies only in a bubble. Life is just too complicated for conservatives, and it is why there is no conservative nation nor defined principles. Kirk gave it a try. There are just reactionary people, sometimes of good will, who find life too complex and thus stand still and/or must point to others as the cause of all that they see as wrong or uncomfortable. I've asked a hundred times for conservative accomplishments that assist all the people and get none. Standing still just doesn't work and historically is unworkable. Change is hard.

But OT. There was a time I thought a good well reasoned argument could convince people of something I thought important. But as you get older you realize that thought is not rational. Reality is a mental construct and as such you may be incapable of the level of thought, tolerance, flexibility to be a liberal. It is like being religious or being close minded or being what we used to call sick in the head. Not everyone can face life as change, as growth, as movement, from here to there, not everyone can deal with something different than what they are used to. Liberalism is about a pragmatic approach to life, a living in the real world and not an imaginary world of tradition. It is one of the chief reasons liberalism is hard to defend or vague about its defense sometimes, it realizes it does not know what works, it only knows we cannot stand still as conservatives do. Bernard Williams calls it 'how we go on in the here and now.'

I have too much data on this topic. It could sink a ship but not convince a soul LOL. Change comes from within.

This is Your Story - The Progressive Story of America. Pass It On.


"In that light, I thought it might be interesting to try to articulate 10 propositions that seem to me to define "liberal" today. Undoubtedly, not all liberals embrace all of these propositions, and many conservatives embrace at least some of them." What it means to be a liberal - Chicago Tribune

Lots of good stuff at Rockridge: George Lakoff's Rockridge Institute Archive | Cognitive Policy Works
and
Jonathan Haidt on the moral roots of liberals and conservatives | Video on TED.com
The Political Brain by Drew Westen


"Adam Smith's position on the role of the state in a capitalist society was close to that of a modern twentieth century US liberal democrat." Spence J. Pack

"Liberals got women the right to vote. Liberals got African-Americans the right to vote. Liberals created Social Security and lifted millions of elderly people out of poverty. Liberals ended segregation. Liberals passed the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act. Liberals created Medicare. Liberals passed the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act. What did Conservatives do? They opposed them on every one of those things...every one! So when you try to hurl that label at my feet, 'Liberal,' as if it were something to be ashamed of, something dirty, something to run away from, it won't work, Senator, because I will pick up that label and I will wear it as a badge of honor." Matt Santos

 

[Intense]

Liberalism is based on stupidity. It's based on a gut feeling of what one wishes were true or possible, but reality of the world does not agree with.

For example, total equality is impossible. Yet, liberalism, by definition, is the pursuit of equality. How much equality is enough? It's never enough. With each step towards equality, with success, comes the next endeavor of equality. The final result........a society in which every single aspect of life is dictated and controlled by a central authority in the name of "equality". And that can only be achieved with overwhelming force.

You can't pursue Justice and Equal Outcome without doing disservice to one or the other. To give Freely what is needed or what you can is a Christian Principle. Caring is a Christian Principle. To take by force of Mandate is of Government, whether it is good or bad in part has to do with Consent, Purpose, Measure, Competence, and Effectiveness, I'm sure there is much more to it. Intentions by Itself does not Justify.

Games sometimes are played for the fun of playing, for the development of skill and ability, Equal Outcome effects the desire to play, to achieve. Modern Liberalism looses sight of the excitement of the game itself, too caught up in playing the role of the God it too often denies exists.

Modern Conservatism has more in common with Locke style Locke style Christianity and Classic Liberalism than Modern Liberalism, which does not Value the Individual, but the Collective.

What happened to the Value of Live and let live, Free to disagree, Freedom of Voice in decent, the Right to possess, the Right to decide for ones self? Hive think, in any form, starves Individual Conscience, it may put the Collective in a better light, but that is an illusion, smoke and mirrors, while the herd moves on blindly in one misdirection and then another, as one. You would have all of your Critics silenced rather than effect growth.