West Bank rabbi: Jews can kill Gentiles who threaten Israel

[Lipush]

"The king's Torah" issue has been told many times in the past? Why bringing this up now as something new?

Do you believe baby's are a threat to Israel?

Of course not, don't be foolish.

But what does that have to do with my question?

 

[Lipush]

Every normal Jew and Israeli condemns what this Rabbi has said.

 

[Annika55]

I think it is wrong to minimize the arguments in this book or the influence of the authors and their supporters.
A full background on The King's Torah:
I will soon be able to post urls, but not yet.
this article is from*The Forward.com.
Rabbinic Text or Call to Terror?
By Daniel Estrin
Published January 20, 2010, issue of January 29, 2010.

JERUSALEM — The marble-patterned, hardcover book embossed with gold Hebrew letters looks like any other religious commentary you’d find in an Orthodox Judaica bookstore — but reads like a rabbinic instruction manual outlining acceptable scenarios for killing non-Jewish babies, children and adults.
“The prohibition ‘Thou Shalt Not Murder’” applies only “to a Jew who kills a Jew,” write Rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur of the West Bank settlement of Yitzhar. Non-Jews are “uncompassionate by nature” and attacks on them “curb their evil inclination,” while babies and children of Israel’s enemies may be killed since “it is clear that they will grow to harm us.”
“The King’s Torah (Torat Hamelech), Part One: Laws of Life and Death between Israel and the Nations,” a 230-page compendium of Halacha, or Jewish religious law, published by the Od Yosef Chai yeshiva in Yitzhar, garnered a front-page exposé in the Israeli tabloid Ma’ariv, which called it the stuff of “Jewish terror.”
Now, the yeshiva is in the news again, with a January 18 raid on Yitzhar by more than 100 Israeli security officials who forcibly entered Od Yosef Chai and arrested 10 Jewish settlers. The Shin Bet, Israel’s domestic security agency, suspects five of those arrested were involved in the torching and vandalizing of a Palestinian mosque last month in the neighboring Palestinian village of Yasuf. The arson provoked an international outcry and condemnation by Israeli religious figures, including Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger, who visited the village to personally voice his regret.
Yet, both Metzger and his Sephardic counterpart, Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar, have declined to comment on the book, which debuted in November, while other prominent rabbis have endorsed it — among them, the son of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, Sephardic Jewry’s preeminent leader. Also, despite the precedent set by previous Israeli attorneys general in the last decade and a half to file criminal charges against settler rabbis who publish commentaries supporting violence against non-Jews, Attorney General Menachem Mazuz has so far remained mum about “The King’s Torah.”
“Sometimes the public arena deals with the phenomenon and things become settled by themselves,” Justice Ministry spokesman Moshe Cohen told the Forward.

A coalition of religious Zionist groups, the “Twelfth of Heshvan,”—– named after the Hebrew date of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin’s assassination, has asked Israel’s Supreme Court to order Mazuz to confiscate the books and arrest its authors.

“You open the book, and you feel that you read a halachic book. And it’s a trap,” said Gadi Gvaryahu, a religious Jewish educator who heads the coalition. It was, in fact, “a guidebook [on] how to kill,” he charged.

Family members who answered phone calls placed to the homes of both authors said they did not wish to comment.

In 2008, author Shapira was suspected of involvement in a crude rocket attack directed at a Palestinian village. Israeli police investigated but made no arrests.

Co-author Elitzur wrote an article in a religious bulletin a month after the book’s release saying that “the Jews will win with violence against the Arabs.”

In 2003, the head of the Od Yosef Chai yeshiva, Rabbi Yitzchak Ginsburgh, was charged by then-Attorney General Elyakim Rubinstein with incitement to racism for authoring a book calling Arabs a “cancer.”

In 2006-2007, the Israeli Ministry of Education gave about a quarter of a million dollars to the yeshiva, and in 2007-2008 the yeshiva received about $28,000 from the American nonprofit Central Fund of Israel.

“The King’s Torah” reflects a fringe viewpoint held by a minority of rabbis in the West Bank, said Avinoam Rosenak, a Hebrew University professor specializing in settler theology. Asher Cohen, a Bar Ilan University political science professor, thought its influence would be “zero” because it appeals only to extreme ideologues.

But the book’s wide dissemination and the enthusiastic endorsements of prominent rabbis have spotlighted what might have otherwise remained an isolated commentary.

At the entrance to Moriah, a large Jewish bookstore steps from the Western Wall, copies of “The King’s Torah” were displayed with children’s books and other halachic commentaries. The store manager, who identified himself only as Motti, said the tome has sold “excellently.”

Other stores carrying the book include Robinson Books, a well-known, mostly secular bookshop in a hip Tel Aviv shopping district; Pomeranz Bookseller, a major Jewish book emporium near the Ben Yehuda mall in downtown Jerusalem; and Felhendler, a Judaica store on the main artery of secular Rehovot, home of the Weizmann Institute.

The yeshiva declined to comment on publication statistics. But Itzik, a Tel Aviv-area book distributor hired by the yeshiva who declined to give his last name because of the book’s nature, said the yeshiva had sold 1,000 copies to individuals and bookstores countrywide. He said an additional 1,000 copies were now being printed.

Mendy Feldheim, owner of Feldheim Publishers, Israel’s largest Judaica publishing house, said he considered this a “nice” sales figure for a tome of rabbinic Halacha in Israel. He said his own company, which distributes to 200 bookstores nationwide, is not distributing “The King’s Torah” because the book’s publishers did not approach the company.

Prominent religious figures wrote letters of endorsement that preface the book. Rabbi Yaakov Yosef, son of former Sephardic Chief Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, blessed the authors and wrote that many “disciples of Torah are unfamiliar with these laws.” The elder Yosef has not commented on his son’s statement.

Dov Lior, chief rabbi of Kiryat Arba and a respected figure among many mainstream religious Zionists, noted that the book is “very relevant especially in this time.”

Rabbi Zalman Nechemia Goldberg, one of the country’s most respected rabbinic commentators, initially endorsed the book, but rescinded his approval a month after its release, saying that the book includes statements that “have no place in human intelligence.”

A handful of settler rabbis echoed Goldberg’s censure, including Shlomo Aviner, chief rabbi of Beit El and head of Yeshivat Ateret Yerushalayim, who said he had “no patience” to read the book, and spoke out against it to his students.

Previously, Israel has arrested settler rabbis who publish commentaries supporting the killing of non-Jews. In addition to Ginsburgh, the Od Yosef Chai yeshiva head, in 1994, the government jailed Rabbi Ido Elba of Hebron for writing a 26-page article proclaiming it a “mitzva to kill every non-Jew from the nation that is fighting the Jew, even women and children.”

“The atmosphere has changed,” said Yair Sheleg, senior researcher at the Israel Democracy Institute, who specializes in issues of religion and state. Previous governments took a tougher stance against such publications, he said, but “paradoxically, because the tension between the general settler population and the Israeli judicial system…is high now, the attorney general is careful not to heighten the tension.”

It is not uncommon for some settler rabbis, in the unique conditions of West Bank settlement life, to issue religious decrees, or psakim, that diverge from normative Jewish practice. In 2008, Avi Gisser, considered a moderate rabbi from the settlement of Ofra, ruled that Jews may violate Sabbath laws and hire non-Jews to build hilltop settlements. And In 2002, Yediot Aharanot reported that former Israeli Chief Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu sanctioned Jewish harvesting of Palestinian-owned olive trees.

 

[irosie91]

I am still not clear as to WHAT HE SAID and just WHO CARES

are israeli children being taught that it is a BIG MITZVAH
to slit the throats of arab children-----as muslim kids are
being taught that the best way to get to JANNAH is by
slitting an Israeli baby throat?

 

[irosie91]

OHHHHH that's what he said WILL HIS IDEAS HOLD UP IN ISRAELI COURTS ?

in shariah courts a MUSLIM who murders a jew-----cannot be charged with a capital
crime-----and more recently----cannot be charged with a crime at all

 

[Lipush]

Israeli children, religious Israeli children (Since it's a religious thing, we need to specify it into religious comminities) are learned to follow the Torah and take wisdom out of the Talmud.

And the only KING'S TORAH, is the Torah ITSELF. anything else is less than less important.

 

[irosie91]

for the period of time my kid attended a very conservative Yeshiva-----he told me---
"this stuff is really interesting-----no matter what some guy says-----they simply
record it------even if it is idiotic and rejected for centuries it just sits there---
something like comic relief" (sorry folks----I took him to shakesperean
plays too-----and explained the concept of 'comic relief' )

 

[Roudy]

Book by Rabbi Yitzhak Shapiro of Yitzhar permits even the murder of babies and children who pose threat.

Just weeks after the arrest of alleged Jewish terrorist, Yaakov Teitel, a West Bank rabbi on Monday released a book giving Jews permission to kill Gentiles who threaten Israel.

Rabbi Yitzhak Shapiro, who heads the Od Yosef Chai Yeshiva in the Yitzhar settlement, wrote in his book "The King's Torah" that even babies and children can be killed if they pose a threat to the nation.

Shapiro based the majority of his teachings on passages quoted from the Bible, to which he adds his opinions and beliefs.

"It is permissable to kill the Righteous among Nations even if they are not responsible for the threatening situation," he wrote, adding: "If we kill a Gentile who has sinned or has violated one of the seven commandments - because we care about the commandments - there is nothing wrong with the murder."

West Bank rabbi: Jews can kill Gentiles who threaten Israel - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

Jaysus what a fucking moron this Jos is. Any nation has a right to defend itself when it is being threatened. Why is this news to this Islamist asswipe? Didn't the Allies carpet bomb German cities during WWII, and the US drop a nuke on Hiroshima?

 

[member]

ANNIKA55: "This article is from Ha'aretz."

- "Two revered West Bank rabbis wrote a religious text. . .it argues there are times when Jews are allowed to kill gentiles who pose no physical threat of violence..."


- the High Court of Justice with demands that the rabbis responsible for the text.


- complainants contend that Weinstein's decision creates a precedent, one never intended by the country's legislative branch - that rabbis can incite in a violent or racist fashion with impunity.

- ]The book -described by its authors as a discussion of circumstances in which Jewish law permits killing in times of war and peace.

- Among other judgments, the book states: "When we approach a gentile who has violated the seven laws of Noah and kill him out of devotion to the upholding of these Noahide laws, this is not forbidden."


"The authors claimed their book states explicitly that "the killing of a gentile is forbidden by Torah," but they immediately added: 'the text indicates that harm can only be brought to a person who does not uphold the seven laws of Noah' -- and such harm can only come about in special circumstances."



This is coming from

2 decrepit schlubs. just more garbage (of today) put out there by religious fanatics to CONTINUE to divide people......they SHOULD be prosecuted for INCITING HATRED. has any jewish person (anywhere) carried out the RABBI's PERSONAL WISHES !

 

[Roudy]

"The king's Torah" issue has been told many times in the past? Why bringing this up now as something new?

Do you believe baby's are a threat to Israel?

This is all bullshit. I have heard this many times from various people, that the only thing Torah states is something like "if you know that someone will be coming to kill you in the morning, you have an obligation to use whatever means you have from preventing that, not doing so is a sin". Something to that effect.

All this discussion is meaningless.

 

[member]

Lipush: "Israeli children, religious Israeli children (Since it's a religious thing, we need to specify it into religious comminities) are learned to follow the Torah and take wisdom out of the Talmud."

"...And the only KING'S TORAH, is the Torah ITSELF. anything else is less than less important."

CHICKLIP: "So you're like Rabmo. Great. Bored now" !

 

[Lipush]

Lipush: "Israeli children, religious Israeli children (Since it's a religious thing, we need to specify it into religious comminities) are learned to follow the Torah and take wisdom out of the Talmud."

"...And the only KING'S TORAH, is the Torah ITSELF. anything else is less than less important."

CHICKLIP: "So you're like Rabmo. Great. Bored now" !

 

[member]

CHICKLIP:

Alright, alright, sorry….

I’ll stop rouzzzzing you.

At first, because of your conversation with “because:”


CHICKLIP: ". . .I had only one answer wrong out of the entire test while she made it only 60% correct."

BECAUSE: "Well good for you bitch"

Lipush: "Thanks, BITCH."

. . .I thought YOU and HER were Shenequa and Tawana from Bed-Sty with your “black” ghetto conversation. You 2 just sounded like you were 2 black chicks.

Then, when you wrote that you were “bored now” – I then thought you were some wealthy, college-going, spoiled brat kid that most likely gets everything they want (materialistically).

Oooooh, sorry 'bout that........

"my bad" sista..i mean Lip...

 

[Billo_Really]

This is all bullshit. I have heard this many times from various people, that the only thing Torah states is something like "if you know that someone will be coming to kill you in the morning, you have an obligation to use whatever means you have from preventing that, not doing so is a sin". Something to that effect.

All this discussion is meaningless.

You can only use deadly force, when you are threatened with deadly force.

Perceiving deadly force at a certain time of day, doesn't justify popping a cap in someone at the time of your choosing.

 

[Billo_Really]

Of course not, don't be foolish.

But what does that have to do with my question?

Nothing. I wasn't trying to answer your question.

 

[irosie91]

for those who do not know----a person is called "rabbi" if a group of other rabbis
say so ------they say so if the person can demonstrate-----in general-----sufficient
knowlege and scholarship in ------jewish law ---customs,----etc. It is not a "rank"
in an organization -----and, in general, is life-time appellation ---even if the person
becomes insane or falls on his head and becomes stupid. A person who is
called "rabbi" does not have any INHERENT powers thereby. Other
jews are not obligated to do what he says. Unlike catholic priests----rabbis are
not granted spiritual powers by some head of an hierarchy