Well now! Surprise surprise...

[Big Black Dog]

Maggie Wrote:

Really? Tell it to the astronauts, who wouldn't have their jobs were it not for the multi-billion dollar government program to get to the moon in 10 years. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work in private sector jobs related to space science. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work for businesses and contractors maintaining the interstate highway system.

This completely misses the point of the larger picture and is nothing more than a programmed partisan response! Obama vision at it's best or a Nancy Pelosi sound track!

NASA, the Post Office, Medicare and others have had budget problems for years or are in serious trouble.

The DMV in our state, meaning all of the branch locations (the bulk of the employment) have been privatized because they could not make it under state management.

IMO, Our downfall began 40 or so years ago, but, to count on the government and not place the healing and recovery where it belongs, with the American people, is a huge mistake.

American's built this nation, not the American government!

Mike

I couldn't agree with you more. The American people have become used to getting everything they can get from the government in terms of government handout programs and thus, basically allowing the government to take care of them. The more the politicians gave, the more they were re-elected. Never look a gift horse in the mouth! Well, it's all coming home to roost now. The government is attempting to run and rule every aspect of our lives. I find this very distasteful but a large number of people in the general population seem to want this. My guess it is the biggest share of those Americans who pay no taxes that want to be given more and more. This public charity comes from the work and sweat of the real people in this country that do the majority of the work, i.e., the middle class. The wealthy already have their slice of the pie. The government gives the poor their slice of the pie. The only person not getting to eat pie is the middle class. A couple of things need to happen in this country IMO. That is, I don't care who you are, if you are an American citizen you need to be paying taxes. Everybody should be on the same tax level and pay the same amount of tax. I don't think income tax is the way to go. There should only be one tax and no other hidden taxes on goods and services. That tax should come about as a National Sales Tax. They could tax every item sold in America, except for essential food and clothing. I propose the tax be 15% for everybody on the goods they purchase. The money collected should be divided up in this way: 10% for the Federal government and 5% to the state the taxes were collected in. No other form of taxation should be constitutional. The tax should never be raised for any reason. Both the Federal government and the State government should be required under the rule of law to spend no more than what was collected in taxes per year. No more borrowing money from other governments should be allowed. If there isn't enough money to fund a particular program then the program does not fly. Simple economics. You can't run a family spending more money then you earn and you surely can't run a government for very long spending more money than you take in from taxes. The easy street ride should be over for everybody. If you are an American, you need to pay taxes.

 

[Darkwind]

Is this the same group that said that it was good that we lost only 11,000 jobs in November and that the new unemployment claims was down because of stimulus while ignoring that every retailer in America is hiring temporary employees for the holiday season as they do every year?

 

[saveliberty]

Is this the same group that said that it was good that we lost only 11,000 jobs in November and that the new unemployment claims was down because of stimulus while ignoring that every retailer in America is hiring temporary employees for the holiday season as they do every year?

You would be correct. The Dept. of Labor cited temporary employees as the reason for November's numbers.

 

[Immanuel]

The government can't create jobs.

Really? Tell it to the astronauts, who wouldn't have their jobs were it not for the multi-billion dollar government program to get to the moon in 10 years. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work in private sector jobs related to space science. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work for businesses and contractors maintaining the interstate highway system.

How many millions of Americans are employed in the defense industry both public and private?

And how many will be lost from the Health Insurance industry when HRC is passed by Congress and signed by the President?

Total Saved Jobs is just a number that they can use to make us believe they didn't screw us again.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

The government can't create jobs.

Really? Tell it to the astronauts, who wouldn't have their jobs were it not for the multi-billion dollar government program to get to the moon in 10 years. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work in private sector jobs related to space science. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work for businesses and contractors maintaining the interstate highway system.

Or the military

or the Post Office

Or those that work in Medicare

Or those that work in Medicaid

Or those that work in govenment offices

Or the DMV

or............

The DMV is state not Federal but then I am not sure that matters in what you are trying to say.

The important thing is though that these jobs were never at risk anyway. The government doesn't release employees simply because there is not enough money to employ them. They simply raise taxes or bill it to the great grandchildren. So I would not call these "saved jobs".

Immie

 

[Foxfyre]

Rather than blindly trust the numbers the administration pumps out, consider the state of your own local economy and unemployment numbers. Businesses are closing down right and left around here....some that have been around for decades. Even law firms are collapsing. The economy is not improving rapidly or convincingly. Obama's claim to have "saved" any jobs is liberal gibberish...unless he refers to those he has chosen not to fire from his and Michelle's personal staffs.

BTW, liberals, I wouldn't count any of those as jobs created either.

That's the bottom line actually. Recessions are a naturally occurring phenomenon in economics and are inevitable from time to time for various reasons. But when the American people are optimistic and confident, recessions will be mild and short lived, and the people themselves quickly begin to grow the economy again. The government generally needs to do nothing.

The gift of a stimulus issued early in President Bush's first term did little or nothing to stimulate the economy but it did add to the deficit/national debt. The much larger stimulus under President Obama is doing little or nothing to stimulate the economy, but it is adding hugely to the deficit/national debt.

While my state hasn't been hit overall as hard as some, in my business I see a lot of financial records of different kinds of businesses and a lot of bottom lines. Those businesses who depend on federal contracts are doing okay, but whether or not they do essential work, their income is a net drain on rather than a boost to the economy. Just about everybody else is showing lowered profits, if any, smaller payrolls, and nobody I've talked to recently is looking to do any long term hiring in the immediate future. Many are realizing so little profit that they have just closed up shop years ahead of when they had previously intended to retire. And each one laid off employees when they did that.

I don't know what will happen, but the Obama Administration has it 100% wrong in thinking government can do this for the people. If it doesn't back off its current track and go back to the proved methods of relaxing regulation and providing tax incentives so that the private sector is encouraged to get back to work, I think it will get much worse before it gets better.

 

[MaggieMae]

You can't be this naive?

In one Ohio city a graduating police academy class of 50 was counted as saved and given jobs due to Obama's bailouts. ............... yet what isn't told is that 3 months later the same city was forced to pass a local city tax increase to save 250 police jobs.

In other words, 50 jobs which were counted towards the positive by the Obama Klan, was false, it was a smoke screen hiding the large problem.

Jobs paid for by the government cannot count as real job growth. Government jobs saved by bailouts cannot be seen as a positive. It's like tossing fairy dust on a wild fire and expecting something magical to save you!

Mike

As the economy continued to decline...which part of REALITY are you not able to comprehend?

Simply put, UNEMPLOYMENT is the RESULT of the far-reaching economic tsunami that began back in 2007. To sit here and argue who best can provide private sector jobs at this point in time is just flat-out dumb. People now having to "go on the gubmit dole" would argue that work is work. Fuck your Randian ideologies, bud.

My, my .......... maybe you should consider not thinking about things which cause you to lose total control.

I am not debating any ideologies, merely standing behind one fact, that government jobs cannot be counted as real job growth, as it is funded by tax money!

Further, the private sector provides private sector jobs, not the government. So, I see no argument in that regard. The problem is the government taking steps which forces the private sector to spend money with government requirements of one type or another, instead of being able to use their funds to create growth, which puts people to work.

Look, for me personally it doesn't matter. I am a private sector owner. If I need to spend more money because of the government in one fashion or the other, then I can protect my personal income by laying off and cutting other operating costs, as well as opening new doors which require less overhead, but, that does nothing for those I could employ if given better options, as to where to spend my money!

As to who to blame, you might wish to reread my opinions, I feel fault is with both parties. Neither party understands what is taking place on Main Street.

Either way, if you cannot converse without limiting yourself to foul and self embarrassing language, then maybe you should go and spend some more proactive time on your own personal issues, which you have exposed here, in your childish actions!

Mike

Well I haven't seen ALL your postings everywhere, and I do get tired of trying to explain simple logic to simplistic people. So if you're not one of those, then I apologize. But here's an analogy:

Our military is paid for by the government, but apparently our volunteer military isn't sufficient to carry on all the logistics of war anymore. So private contractors are hired, by the government, to do hundreds of peripheral things. Those are good paying jobs; they keep major defense contractors and their subcontractors in the black. All of those quasi government employees in turn spend money.

The major glitch occurring in our economy today is that people are actually saving more than they're spending (in good economic times, a good thing), which limits the amount of cash flow all the way up the pipeline (perhaps to your company too). Without a vibrant economy, everyone suffers. We can argue forever about government jobs versus private jobs, but SOMETHING was needed to attempt to jump start the economy again, now.

Also, I still maintain that even as some company (and/or its employees), is removed from a government contract, it is then free to operate within the private sector paying employees from its own profits garnered from the private sector having had an advantage over competitors of enormous experience in the field. (In fact, nothing looks better on a resume than a history of employment with the government when applying for a job with a private company in the same discipline. Trust me. Been there, done that.)

 

[MaggieMae]

As the economy continued to decline...which part of REALITY are you not able to comprehend?

Simply put, UNEMPLOYMENT is the RESULT of the far-reaching economic tsunami that began back in 2007. To sit here and argue who best can provide private sector jobs at this point in time is just flat-out dumb. People now having to "go on the gubmit dole" would argue that work is work. Fuck your Randian ideologies, bud.

My, my .......... maybe you should consider not thinking about things which cause you to lose total control.

I am not debating any ideologies, merely standing behind one fact, that government jobs cannot be counted as real job growth, as it is funded by tax money!

Further, the private sector provides private sector jobs, not the government. So, I see no argument in that regard. The problem is the government taking steps which forces the private sector to spend money with government requirements of one type or another, instead of being able to use their funds to create growth, which puts people to work.

Look, for me personally it doesn't matter. I am a private sector owner. If I need to spend more money because of the government in one fashion or the other, then I can protect my personal income by laying off and cutting other operating costs, as well as opening new doors which require less overhead, but, that does nothing for those I could employ if given better options, as to where to spend my money!

As to who to blame, you might wish to reread my opinions, I feel fault is with both parties. Neither party understands what is taking place on Main Street.

Either way, if you cannot converse without limiting yourself to foul and self embarrassing language, then maybe you should go and spend some more proactive time on your own personal issues, which you have exposed here, in your childish actions!

Mike

just wait. she'll compare you to Hitler.

Is there an echo in here? Also note I've never compared anyone here to Hitler. Elvis lives in la la land drifting somewhere in cyberspace and still doing drugs apparently.

 

[MaggieMae]

You can't be this naive?

In one Ohio city a graduating police academy class of 50 was counted as saved and given jobs due to Obama's bailouts. ............... yet what isn't told is that 3 months later the same city was forced to pass a local city tax increase to save 250 police jobs.

In other words, 50 jobs which were counted towards the positive by the Obama Klan, was false, it was a smoke screen hiding the large problem.

Jobs paid for by the government cannot count as real job growth. Government jobs saved by bailouts cannot be seen as a positive. It's like tossing fairy dust on a wild fire and expecting something magical to save you!

Mike

As the economy continued to decline...which part of REALITY are you not able to comprehend?

Simply put, UNEMPLOYMENT is the RESULT of the far-reaching economic tsunami that began back in 2007. To sit here and argue who best can provide private sector jobs at this point in time is just flat-out dumb. People now having to "go on the gubmit dole" would argue that work is work. Fuck your Randian ideologies, bud.

So get rid of the Democratic Congress that wrought this havoc. Mike is just saying the answer government has provided us will not solve the problem. Further, fraud is being commited by Obama and others that it is by forging false jobs "saved" and "created" data.

To go back and show you the majority polling in favor of a stimulus package would be a waste of time, because memories here are notoriously short. Suffice it to say that just because the Democrats are the majority in power doesn't mean that they get the entire blame. Not when most THINKING Republicans and talking heads also realized it was necessary.

U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

 

[MaggieMae]

I am often fascinated when terms are tossed out which I am not familiar with. Even more so when they are used to describe me.

So I often try to understand them, more often than not for my own amusement, but, sometimes I actually learn a thing or two.

In this case, it was for amusement.

So I searched ......... "Randian ideologies" ........... I didn't need to search the words used before them! lol

Here is my #1 result and I can honestly say I know nothing of this person.

The cult of Ayn Rand

The cult of Ayn Rand : The New Yorker


Mike

Well now you do. While her philosophies may have been better argued when the U.S. actually was at the top of the game in manufacturing and exporting goods, she falls flat in the here and now when the country relies so heavily on global trends.

 

[WillowTree]

I am often fascinated when terms are tossed out which I am not familiar with. Even more so when they are used to describe me.

So I often try to understand them, more often than not for my own amusement, but, sometimes I actually learn a thing or two.

In this case, it was for amusement.

So I searched ......... "Randian ideologies" ........... I didn't need to search the words used before them! lol

Here is my #1 result and I can honestly say I know nothing of this person.

The cult of Ayn Rand

The cult of Ayn Rand : The New Yorker


Mike

Well now you do. While her philosophies may have been better argued when the U.S. actually was at the top of the game in manufacturing and exporting goods, she falls flat in the here and now when the country relies so heavily on global trends.

you "at work" Maggie?

 

[Liability]

Reports from journalists and the Government Accountability Office last month about problems with the data on Recovery.gov cast doubt on the site’s claim that more than 640,000 jobs had been created or saved by the Obama administration’s American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Meanwhile Obama upped the ante, putting the figure at more than 1 million. On Nov. 12, for example, in announcing this month’s jobs summit, he said that the stimulus had “created and saved more than a million jobs.”

Now some good news for the White House: According to the Congressional Budget Office, the actual number may be more than twice what Recovery.gov says, and as much as 50 percent more than what Obama has been saying. The nonpartisan agency found that:

CBO, Nov. 30: n the third quarter of calendar year 2009, an additional 600,000 to 1.6 million people were employed in the United States, and real (inflation-adjusted) gross domestic product was 1.2 percent to 3.2 percent higher, than would have been the case in the absence of ARRA.

Read ----> Stimulus Jobs, Re-revisited | FactCheck.org

LOL!

And the rubes keep right on buying this nonsense.

I didn't lose my job last month! President Obama SAVED it!

 

[MaggieMae]

Willow, unfortunately for Maggie my father and other relatives lived under Nazi occupation and my father and his two sisters, along with others are still alive to give witness to the truth. The truth about socialism, the truth about communism and the truth about why this nation, the USA is so damn wonderful and special.

Blackdog, the unemployment rate in our area here in the midwest is also above the national average and it is getting worse. Sadly we are actually in a city which should be better off than most in our state, so the outlook is not good. The White House and the powers on the HILL are playing with the numbers and they are heading towards more and more national spending which will hit hard on the state level as well, let alone the individual level which is already well beyond anything since the depression.

We have been in business for more than 60 years and we have weathered many a lean year(s), but, not once, not until now, have we ever been concerned about our long term outlook. Further, not once, in all those year has an employee ever been discharged due to budget concerns, not until now! Not many things bother us more than looking a decent, hard working person in the eyes and telling them they no long have a job, it is a new experience for us and we are not taking well to it.

Mike

The above is a perfect example of WHY the two parties, especially individuals, will remain polarized. Why would you believe that only CONSERVATIVES saw suffering under pure Communist regimes? See how you attempt to separate yourself out as being perfect? What makes you an expert on which political persuasion suffers most from a declining economy? Do you think it's only conservatives who suddenly found themselves unemployed? Is it only a "conservative" small business that has gone under? And comparing OUR socio-economic system with Communism (as defined by Willow and you) is just plain DUMB. It proves for all your 60 years of business knowledge, that you really don't know HISTORY in general. This country doesn't even have a quasi-socialistic form of government. You might try reviewing the accurate definitions of Socialism and Communism if you can't seem to separate truth from fiction.

So, one again (and I rarely get an answer), how would YOU have handled the situation? How would YOU get employment back on track? And puleeze don't say tax cuts. The existing tax cuts for individuals, corporations, and small businesses apparently weren't enough? Compare this decade to the last one. Are we better off economically with the tax cuts than we were when Clinton raised them? To repeat, the current rate of unemployment is the RESULT of the financial system meltdown, period. And THAT, my friend, was NOT the "government" fault.

 

[MaggieMae]

Maggie Wrote:

Really? Tell it to the astronauts, who wouldn't have their jobs were it not for the multi-billion dollar government program to get to the moon in 10 years. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work in private sector jobs related to space science. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work for businesses and contractors maintaining the interstate highway system.

This completely misses the point of the larger picture and is nothing more than a programmed partisan response! Obama vision at it's best or a Nancy Pelosi sound track!

NASA, the Post Office, Medicare and others have had budget problems for years or are in serious trouble.

The DMV in our state, meaning all of the branch locations (the bulk of the employment) have been privatized because they could not make it under state management.

IMO, Our downfall began 40 or so years ago, but, to count on the government and not place the healing and recovery where it belongs, with the American people, is a huge mistake.

American's built this nation, not the American government!

Mike

I see you completely missed the point. Major government projects inevitably lead to job expansion IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. It's a no-brainer.

 

[MaggieMae]

Some government jobs are necessary in order for government to carry out its Constitutionally mandated fuctions. And it is normal that there should be some increase in such jobs to service a growing population.

But when essentially all job creation is via newly created federal government jobs or temp jobs to complete government contracts, there is little or no relief in the private sector.

The government generates no wealth but rather absorbs it. Every new government job or government contract issued drains funds from the private sector and/or pushes the country deeper and deeper into debt. It doesn't matter whether this is in a Republican administration or a Democrat administration, the results are the same.

The Obama administration saying that they have created or saved X number of jobs when hundreds of thousands of new unemployment claims are filed every month takes about as much insulting hutzpah as I've ever seen from any administration.

That's the same as me getting a $1.00 return on a $10.00 bet and bragging to my spouse that I won a dollar today.

They must truly think we are blooming gullible idiots.

Exactly! ............Well said!

Mike

If the private sector has NO MONEY to fulfill the needs, then what? Would we still be driving on dirt roads? Using gas lanterns to read by? Waiting for sales of logs to a private company making railroad ties to then sell them to another private contractor who might not have the money to finish the railroads?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Maggie Wrote:

Really? Tell it to the astronauts, who wouldn't have their jobs were it not for the multi-billion dollar government program to get to the moon in 10 years. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work in private sector jobs related to space science. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work for businesses and contractors maintaining the interstate highway system.

This completely misses the point of the larger picture and is nothing more than a programmed partisan response! Obama vision at it's best or a Nancy Pelosi sound track!

NASA, the Post Office, Medicare and others have had budget problems for years or are in serious trouble.

The DMV in our state, meaning all of the branch locations (the bulk of the employment) have been privatized because they could not make it under state management.

IMO, Our downfall began 40 or so years ago, but, to count on the government and not place the healing and recovery where it belongs, with the American people, is a huge mistake.

American's built this nation, not the American government!

Mike

I see you completely missed the point. Major government projects inevitably lead to job expansion IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. It's a no-brainer.

Jobs which are not viable without the government, which means that they're also a drain on the economy as much as any other public sector job.

 

[MaggieMae]

Rather than blindly trust the numbers the administration pumps out, consider the state of your own local economy and unemployment numbers. Businesses are closing down right and left around here....some that have been around for decades. Even law firms are collapsing. The economy is not improving rapidly or convincingly. Obama's claim to have "saved" any jobs is liberal gibberish...unless he refers to those he has chosen not to fire from his and Michelle's personal staffs.

BTW, liberals, I wouldn't count any of those as jobs created either.

There are some governors and state legislators who have not used stimulus money wisely. But some have.

“If we are going to help our friends and neighbors, farmers and innkeepers during this difficult economic time, we must spend one-time federal recovery funds on one-time economic growth initiatives,”

Press Release - Jim Douglas, Governor of Vermont

The Repubican governor of my state, as well as his predecessors (Howard Dean, a Democrat, and Richard Snelling, a Republican) have worked successfully side-by-side with opposite legislatures for years.

 

[MaggieMae]

Maggie Wrote:

Really? Tell it to the astronauts, who wouldn't have their jobs were it not for the multi-billion dollar government program to get to the moon in 10 years. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work in private sector jobs related to space science. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work for businesses and contractors maintaining the interstate highway system.

This completely misses the point of the larger picture and is nothing more than a programmed partisan response! Obama vision at it's best or a Nancy Pelosi sound track!

NASA, the Post Office, Medicare and others have had budget problems for years or are in serious trouble.

The DMV in our state, meaning all of the branch locations (the bulk of the employment) have been privatized because they could not make it under state management.

IMO, Our downfall began 40 or so years ago, but, to count on the government and not place the healing and recovery where it belongs, with the American people, is a huge mistake.

American's built this nation, not the American government!

Mike

I couldn't agree with you more. The American people have become used to getting everything they can get from the government in terms of government handout programs and thus, basically allowing the government to take care of them. The more the politicians gave, the more they were re-elected. Never look a gift horse in the mouth! Well, it's all coming home to roost now. The government is attempting to run and rule every aspect of our lives. I find this very distasteful but a large number of people in the general population seem to want this. My guess it is the biggest share of those Americans who pay no taxes that want to be given more and more. This public charity comes from the work and sweat of the real people in this country that do the majority of the work, i.e., the middle class. The wealthy already have their slice of the pie. The government gives the poor their slice of the pie. The only person not getting to eat pie is the middle class. A couple of things need to happen in this country IMO. That is, I don't care who you are, if you are an American citizen you need to be paying taxes. Everybody should be on the same tax level and pay the same amount of tax. I don't think income tax is the way to go. There should only be one tax and no other hidden taxes on goods and services. That tax should come about as a National Sales Tax. They could tax every item sold in America, except for essential food and clothing. I propose the tax be 15% for everybody on the goods they purchase. The money collected should be divided up in this way: 10% for the Federal government and 5% to the state the taxes were collected in. No other form of taxation should be constitutional. The tax should never be raised for any reason. Both the Federal government and the State government should be required under the rule of law to spend no more than what was collected in taxes per year. No more borrowing money from other governments should be allowed. If there isn't enough money to fund a particular program then the program does not fly. Simple economics. You can't run a family spending more money then you earn and you surely can't run a government for very long spending more money than you take in from taxes. The easy street ride should be over for everybody. If you are an American, you need to pay taxes.

I totally agree on the tax issue. There's got to be a better, more equitable way, to collect taxes. I hope it continues as an ongoing debate this time around, since the subject always gets talked about in hard times but there's never any widespread initiative to actually begin a complete remodeling of the Tax Code. Here's the best discussion on flat tax/fair tax.

The Tax Foundation - Flat Tax vs. FairTax Debate

 

[Foxfyre]

Rather than blindly trust the numbers the administration pumps out, consider the state of your own local economy and unemployment numbers. Businesses are closing down right and left around here....some that have been around for decades. Even law firms are collapsing. The economy is not improving rapidly or convincingly. Obama's claim to have "saved" any jobs is liberal gibberish...unless he refers to those he has chosen not to fire from his and Michelle's personal staffs.

BTW, liberals, I wouldn't count any of those as jobs created either.

There are some governors and state legislators who have not used stimulus money wisely. But some have.

“If we are going to help our friends and neighbors, farmers and innkeepers during this difficult economic time, we must spend one-time federal recovery funds on one-time economic growth initiatives,”

Press Release - Jim Douglas, Governor of Vermont

The Repubican governor of my state, as well as his predecessors (Howard Dean, a Democrat, and Richard Snelling, a Republican) have worked successfully side-by-side with opposite legislatures for years.

There is always the old cliche' too that even a blind squirrel will find an acorn now and then or that even the stopped clock will show the correct time twice a day.

That you can find isolated incidents where the stimulus money produced as advertised cannot erase the hundreds of billions of dollars, all borrowed money, all a drain on the economy for this and future generations, that have produced no jobs, no stimulus, no incentive to anybody other than those grabbing for whatever cash they can get to enrich themselves and/or their agendas.

How much more good could the Federal government have done, and how much less would the deficit have been, had it announced that the Bush tax cuts would remain in place after 2010, had it relaxed some unnecessary regulation and provided tax incentives for private industry to step up production, and had it provided incentives for local governments to step up infrastructure repairs and maintenance. I imagine all that would have produced measurable positive results for a far sight less money than has been spent or committed.

 

[MaggieMae]

Recessions are a naturally occurring phenomenon in economics and are inevitable from time to time for various reasons. But when the American people are optimistic and confident, recessions will be mild and short lived, and the people themselves quickly begin to grow the economy again. The government generally needs to do nothing.

It's absolutely incredulous to me that seemingly smart people cannot grasp the fact that this is NOT a "normal" recession and that the country won't just pull out of it in short order like we have in the past. I keep looking for clean, unambiguous articles (preferably from a conservative point of view so as not to be accused of being a "socialist" or some other equally degrading label). If I can find the time to read AND ABSORB the wealth of information that proves your premise W.R.O.N.G, then I don't know why everyone can't. Let's try THIS one.

Is Unemployment the Worst Since the Great Depression? - US News and World Report