Welfare State Devouring Prosperity

[DiamondDave]

Doesn't it seem strange that all the problems are because of a small minority that may need help?

But there are many other factors that cause the US economy to be in trouble. It cannot all be laid at the feet of 'the poor'. Just a real investment in new technologies and alternative energies would have drastically improved things, but vested interests forbid.

Both political parties have so mis-managed things for so long that extracting the causes from the effects is 'mind boggling'.

let's break this drivel down

1) Small minority?? Do you have a clue as to how many are on some sort of government assistance or the amount that pay nothing in income taxes (or even receive money out of the tax system)?
2) NEED help?? Many of you confuse NEED and WANT... While every person has personal needs, not every person NEEDS someone to provide it for them. It is just EASIER for them if someone else provides it for them. It is indeed easier to do nothing than to work 2 or 3 jobs. Most on assistance are quite capable, just unwilling to take a job that they consider BENEATH them.
3) There are indeed many problems in the US economy. Many of them revolve the amount of government spending and borrowing that causes a rise in taxation, taking the monies away from the people who can spend it and placing them into a multi-level system of corruption and bureaucracy. The government does not stimulate, it drains.
4) Companies would invest more in technology if the economic outlook were better. It is in their interests to. Government has no charge to INVEST in technology. The government is not a research firm, nor is it a venture capitalist.
5) "Alternative energies" are not very cost efficient at this time. These are actually a drain, not an improving factor. This is why companies that derive big profits put some money into them for the future, when they can. But you do not put all your eggs into the basket when it is not currently viable. Though the investment in improvement might pay dividends down the road. See oil company research, energy company research, etc. But when you see an alternative energy startup company that focuses directly on the alternative, it fails.
6) All sides within the government have failed. Which is why a drastic change to more responsible government is needed.
7) What is "mind boggling" is that you believe a ton of this big government control, evil company, evil rich guy, entitlement worship, redistribution bullshit

 

[kiwiman127]

Working Americans have seen flat wages for about thirty years. Who exactly is responsible for their plight? Who sets wages? Who decides to offshore their workers? Since Capital Gains dropped to the 15% tax rate, why has almost as many jobs been created offshore versus jobs created domestically?
Why is this recession"s recovery been sluggish while corporations have seen record profits, yet no jobs have been created? Why has the working class seen their share of the National Income drop to record levels? Why has the concept of upwards mobility in America declined?
Something is causing our welfare state? Exactly what is it?

The consumer.

Where was the computer you are using to post this manufactured?

"The consumer". Now why is that? The answer is simple, the consumer class is made up largely by the working class and we all know the working class is hurting, they have less and less expendable income and that's their fault? Are they responsible for their flat wages over the last three decades?

"Where was the computer you are using to post this manufactured?" Now wouldn't that be due to offshoring jobs?

 

[Claudette]

Doesn't it seem strange that all the problems are because of a small minority that may need help?

But there are many other factors that cause the US economy to be in trouble. It cannot all be laid at the feet of 'the poor'. Just a real investment in new technologies and alternative energies would have drastically improved things, but vested interests forbid.

Both political parties have so mis-managed things for so long that extracting the causes from the effects is 'mind boggling'.

let's break this drivel down

1) Small minority?? Do you have a clue as to how many are on some sort of government assistance or the amount that pay nothing in income taxes (or even receive money out of the tax system)?
2) NEED help?? Many of you confuse NEED and WANT... While every person has personal needs, not every person NEEDS someone to provide it for them. It is just EASIER for them if someone else provides it for them. It is indeed easier to do nothing than to work 2 or 3 jobs. Most on assistance are quite capable, just unwilling to take a job that they consider BENEATH them.
3) There are indeed many problems in the US economy. Many of them revolve the amount of government spending and borrowing that causes a rise in taxation, taking the monies away from the people who can spend it and placing them into a multi-level system of corruption and bureaucracy. The government does not stimulate, it drains.
4) Companies would invest more in technology if the economic outlook were better. It is in their interests to. Government has no charge to INVEST in technology. The government is not a research firm, nor is it a venture capitalist.
5) "Alternative energies" are not very cost efficient at this time. These are actually a drain, not an improving factor. This is why companies that derive big profits put some money into them for the future, when they can. But you do not put all your eggs into the basket when it is not currently viable. Though the investment in improvement might pay dividends down the road. See oil company research, energy company research, etc. But when you see an alternative energy startup company that focuses directly on the alternative, it fails.
6) All sides within the government have failed. Which is why a drastic change to more responsible government is needed.
7) What is "mind boggling" is that you believe a ton of this big government control, evil company, evil rich guy, entitlement worship, redistribution bullshit

We currently have 49% of the population that pays NO FED taxes at all. What happenes when that number reaches 50% or 60%?? You will have more taking from the taxpayers than you have funding the Govt.

"Once the people learn they can draw from the public largesse the Republic will end." Truer words were never spoken. We are headed down that slippery slope even now.

The Govt needs to get out of the business of taking care of companies and people. People need to take care of themselves. Any business that can't make it without loopholes and breaks doesn't need to be in business. Get the hell out and make way for a company that can.

Govt isn't here to take care of anyone or any company and it needs to get out of the business of using our hardearned tax dollars to do just that.

 

[SniperFire]

Working Americans have seen flat wages for about thirty years. Who exactly is responsible for their plight? Who sets wages? Who decides to offshore their workers? Since Capital Gains dropped to the 15% tax rate, why has almost as many jobs been created offshore versus jobs created domestically?
Why is this recession"s recovery been sluggish while corporations have seen record profits, yet no jobs have been created? Why has the working class seen their share of the National Income drop to record levels? Why has the concept of upwards mobility in America declined?
Something is causing our welfare state? Exactly what is it?

The consumer.

Where was the computer you are using to post this manufactured?

"The consumer". Now why is that? The answer is simple, the consumer class is made up largely by the working class and we all know the working class is hurting, they have less and less expendable income and that's their fault? Are they responsible for their flat wages over the last three decades?

"Where was the computer you are using to post this manufactured?" Now wouldn't that be due to offshoring jobs?

Why won't you answer the simple question put to you?

Where was the computer you are using to post this manufactured?


And I will expand.


Why did you decide on it versus other models?

 

[kiwiman127]

Working Americans have seen flat wages for about thirty years. Who exactly is responsible for their plight? Who sets wages? Who decides to offshore their workers? Since Capital Gains dropped to the 15% tax rate, why has almost as many jobs been created offshore versus jobs created domestically?
Why is this recession"s recovery been sluggish while corporations have seen record profits, yet no jobs have been created? Why has the working class seen their share of the National Income drop to record levels? Why has the concept of upwards mobility in America declined?
Something is causing our welfare state? Exactly what is it?

Ah yes...another progressive totally baffled by economics and life in general! Why IS progressive policy not working? Why WON'T the Private Sector cooperate? How come I'm not dating a super-model? Why isn't life FAIR?

Is being part Main Street America being progressive? Isn't Main Street America the backbone of America?? Isn't Main Street America made up of working Americans from all political persuasions?
The private sector hasn't been cooperating for quite awhile as noted by Offshoring (or Offshore Outsourcing) and Job Loss Among U.S. Workers that was put together by the Congressional Research Service. ( http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL32292_20110121.pdf )
So is it progressive to live in reality? It's a fact, the private sector hasn't been cooperative for decades and now America's economy and the working class are paying the price.

 

[there4eyeM]

" What is "mind boggling" is that you believe a ton of this big government control, evil company, evil rich guy, entitlement worship, redistribution bullshit"

It isn't 'mind boggling', but your categorization is completely false and has nothing to do with my ideas or beliefs.

People who pay no Federal income tax don't earn enough to.

And as for the I.R.S., should working wages be considered revenue, contrary to the Constitution?

Entrepreneurship, independent action and social responsibility, including community consciousness, built America, not big capitalism or the two-party system.

 

[kiwiman127]

The consumer.

Where was the computer you are using to post this manufactured?

"The consumer". Now why is that? The answer is simple, the consumer class is made up largely by the working class and we all know the working class is hurting, they have less and less expendable income and that's their fault? Are they responsible for their flat wages over the last three decades?

"Where was the computer you are using to post this manufactured?" Now wouldn't that be due to offshoring jobs?

Why won't you answer the simple question put to you?

Where was the computer you are using to post this manufactured?


And I will expand.


Why did you decide on it versus other models?

I own a Polywell Poly i1000A-3770T, made in the US, the keyboard and mouse I bought separately and they were made offshore. Why did I decide on the Poly, it's made in the USA and had great reviews from friends of mine. The Poly suits my specific personal needs. Now I also have a second PC (Dell) at home that the company that employs me provides for me ( I telecommute 3-4 days a week), it's loaded specify with customized software that interacts with my departments software and is proprietary.

 

[Oldstyle]

Working Americans have seen flat wages for about thirty years. Who exactly is responsible for their plight? Who sets wages? Who decides to offshore their workers? Since Capital Gains dropped to the 15% tax rate, why has almost as many jobs been created offshore versus jobs created domestically?
Why is this recession"s recovery been sluggish while corporations have seen record profits, yet no jobs have been created? Why has the working class seen their share of the National Income drop to record levels? Why has the concept of upwards mobility in America declined?
Something is causing our welfare state? Exactly what is it?

Ah yes...another progressive totally baffled by economics and life in general! Why IS progressive policy not working? Why WON'T the Private Sector cooperate? How come I'm not dating a super-model? Why isn't life FAIR?

Is being part Main Street America being progressive? Isn't Main Street America the backbone of America?? Isn't Main Street America made up of working Americans from all political persuasions?
The private sector hasn't been cooperating for quite awhile as noted by Offshoring (or Offshore Outsourcing) and Job Loss Among U.S. Workers that was put together by the Congressional Research Service. ( http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL32292_20110121.pdf )
So is it progressive to live in reality? It's a fact, the private sector hasn't been cooperative for decades and now America's economy and the working class are paying the price.

What progressives like yourself can't seem to grasp is that the Private Sector's "job" isn't to support entitlement programs...it's to turn a profit, make payroll and stay solvent. You folks pass legislation crammed with new regulations that have business owners constantly jumping through hoops trying to stay compliant with all the rules and then you're baffled when businesses that have a choice decide to move operations to a locale where they don't have to do that. The truth is...doing business in this country sucks because you spend as much time churning out paperwork for government agencies as you do BUILDING your business. THAT is reality, Kiwi.

 

[Oldstyle]

" What is "mind boggling" is that you believe a ton of this big government control, evil company, evil rich guy, entitlement worship, redistribution bullshit"

It isn't 'mind boggling', but your categorization is completely false and has nothing to do with my ideas or beliefs.

People who pay no Federal income tax don't earn enough to.

And as for the I.R.S., should working wages be considered revenue, contrary to the Constitution?

Entrepreneurship, independent action and social responsibility, including community consciousness, built America, not big capitalism or the two-party system.

In what way did "social responsibility" and "community consciousness" build America while capitalism didn't? I hear this naive liberal PoliSci word speak coming from products of our liberal higher education system like yourself and it's amusing to me that you think nonsense like that isn't going to be laughed at in a serious discussion.

Capitalism...despite what some clueless college Professor may have told you...has given us the highest standard of living this planet has ever seen.

 

[Full-Auto]

You talking about farm welfare?

The military/industrial complex welfare?

SSI? (have you let the guvmint know that you will send back your Social Security check? All the other Repubs have) Repubs don't need to stinking SSI welfare. Right? OH and Medicare, Renounce it and refuse it. You don't need it.

Or is it the welfare paid to poor people? (this is the part where you are all hung up. Isn't it?)

Tell me again how much welfare the military industrial complex gets vs. the poor people.

How is the military considered welfare jackass? Don't the work for what they receive. as opposed to the leeches who sit on they porches waiting for their welfare check? go liberals go.

Coming from you that has stated you live off welfare, this is downright laughable.

Get a job you lazy ass!

How long have you thought lying strengthens your position?

 

[AnonymousIV]

We need to babysit welfare cases, use military veterans as social workers. If you draw government monies you have responsibilities to the government.

 

[OnTheRight]

You talking about farm welfare?

The military/industrial complex welfare?

SSI? (have you let the guvmint know that you will send back your Social Security check? All the other Repubs have) Repubs don't need to stinking SSI welfare. Right? OH and Medicare, Renounce it and refuse it. You don't need it.

Or is it the welfare paid to poor people? (this is the part where you are all hung up. Isn't it?)

Tell me again how much welfare the military industrial complex gets vs. the poor people.

Most people have paid into SSI and medicare their whole lives. How much has the average recipient of medicaide or section 8 paid for those benefits? Epic FAIL.

 

[DiamondDave]

" What is "mind boggling" is that you believe a ton of this big government control, evil company, evil rich guy, entitlement worship, redistribution bullshit"

It isn't 'mind boggling', but your categorization is completely false and has nothing to do with my ideas or beliefs.

People who pay no Federal income tax don't earn enough to.

And as for the I.R.S., should working wages be considered revenue, contrary to the Constitution?

Entrepreneurship, independent action and social responsibility, including community consciousness, built America, not big capitalism or the two-party system.

Yes.. by what you support, it is

You earn 1 dollar, it is enough to be taxed.. just as if you spend 1 dollar, it is enough to be taxed with sales tax

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes"

Social 'responsibility' and 'community consciousness' did not build America.. it has sapped America.. you have no right to the private property of others... you have the freedom to receive out of the voluntary contributions of others when they donate to private charity or private programs that they choose to support, but you are not owed it in any way, shape, or form, under some bullshit 'social contract' or 'social responsibility'... your personal upkeep and personal responsibilities are yours and yours alone, not the responsibility of the country, the government, nor society

 

[kiwiman127]

Ah yes...another progressive totally baffled by economics and life in general! Why IS progressive policy not working? Why WON'T the Private Sector cooperate? How come I'm not dating a super-model? Why isn't life FAIR?

Is being part Main Street America being progressive? Isn't Main Street America the backbone of America?? Isn't Main Street America made up of working Americans from all political persuasions?
The private sector hasn't been cooperating for quite awhile as noted by Offshoring (or Offshore Outsourcing) and Job Loss Among U.S. Workers that was put together by the Congressional Research Service. ( http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL32292_20110121.pdf )
So is it progressive to live in reality? It's a fact, the private sector hasn't been cooperative for decades and now America's economy and the working class are paying the price.

What progressives like yourself can't seem to grasp is that the Private Sector's "job" isn't to support entitlement programs...it's to turn a profit, make payroll and stay solvent. You folks pass legislation crammed with new regulations that have business owners constantly jumping through hoops trying to stay compliant with all the rules and then you're baffled when businesses that have a choice decide to move operations to a locale where they don't have to do that. The truth is...doing business in this country sucks because you spend as much time churning out paperwork for government agencies as you do BUILDING your business. THAT is reality, Kiwi.

No, you are ignoring what made America great. America will never be great again as long as the working Middle Class continue to spin their wheels and go nowhere. About 70% of the US economy is driven by consumer spending It's kinda hard having such a economic system that drives our country when the drivers of this style of economic don't have the expendable monies to support it.
After the last quarter's GDP was announced, one of the main reasons pointed out by most economist was the fact that there was no demand by the consumer. So you tell me that this fine? How naive.
I would like you to know that I was 100% for the welfare reform that took place in a bi-partisan manner with Clinton and the GOP. I also would like to see more welfare reform. Like you, I don't like paying for people to sit on their asses and do nothing but play cribbage, watch reality shows and don't even attempt to find work. So therefore, I would like to see more welfare reform and get rid of the habitual slackers

 

[there4eyeM]

"Capitalism...despite what some clueless college Professor may have told you...has given us the highest standard of living this planet has ever seen."

The very origins of America worked on trade. It was an exchange based economy, not money based and, so, by definition not capitalist.

There is no inherent evil in 'capitalism' (used here with the meaning of using money to make money). Entrepreneurship utilizes the elements of capitalism working at a local scale and responsible to clients.

In communities, people knew who was poor or sick or who's barn had burned down. They gave to churches or organizations or just helped directly themselves. It was natural.

One of the heros of the American myth said, "From those to whom much has been given,...."

 

[Moonglow]

At the risk of upsetting people, what would have happened, say, if the gigantic amount of money workers paid into Social Security had been used properly for investment instead of - not?

what would happen if the money you put into investments was lost because of market conditions?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Koch Brothers
KNOW!!

*

BOMBSHELL: Koch-Funded Study Finds ‘Global Warming Is Real’, ‘On The High End’ And ‘Essentially All Due To Carbon Pollution​

 

[there4eyeM]

"what would happen if the money you put into investments was lost because of market conditions?"

At least then they would have an excuse!

 

[Moonglow]

Is being part Main Street America being progressive? Isn't Main Street America the backbone of America?? Isn't Main Street America made up of working Americans from all political persuasions?
The private sector hasn't been cooperating for quite awhile as noted by Offshoring (or Offshore Outsourcing) and Job Loss Among U.S. Workers that was put together by the Congressional Research Service. ( http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL32292_20110121.pdf )
So is it progressive to live in reality? It's a fact, the private sector hasn't been cooperative for decades and now America's economy and the working class are paying the price.

What progressives like yourself can't seem to grasp is that the Private Sector's "job" isn't to support entitlement programs...it's to turn a profit, make payroll and stay solvent. You folks pass legislation crammed with new regulations that have business owners constantly jumping through hoops trying to stay compliant with all the rules and then you're baffled when businesses that have a choice decide to move operations to a locale where they don't have to do that. The truth is...doing business in this country sucks because you spend as much time churning out paperwork for government agencies as you do BUILDING your business. THAT is reality, Kiwi.

No, you are ignoring what made America great. America will never be great again as long as the working Middle Class continue to spin their wheels and go nowhere. About 70% of the US economy is driven by consumer spending It's kinda hard having such a economic system that drives our country when the drivers of this style of economic don't have the expendable monies to support it.
After the last quarter's GDP was announced, one of the main reasons pointed out by most economist was the fact that there was no demand by the consumer. So you tell me that this fine? How naive.
I would like you to know that I was 100% for the welfare reform that took place in a bi-partisan manner with Clinton and the GOP. I also would like to see more welfare reform. Like you, I don't like paying for people to sit on their asses and do nothing but play cribbage, watch reality shows and don't even attempt to find work. So therefore, I would like to see more welfare reform and get rid of the habitual slackers

I agree, also to add; the trade imbalance is seriouly wrecking employment opportunities.
Buy American goods, look at who makes what you buy.
When I do jobs I buy only US made materials.

 

[Moonglow]

"what would happen if the money you put into investments was lost because of market conditions?"

At least then they would have an excuse!

and no monies.