Welfare equivalent to $50,000 a year job in many states

[Red Front]

So where is this "right" written that the rights of human labor gives government the authority to determine wages? It's not in the Constitution. It's not in the Declaration of Independence. It was never a discussion by our founders.

How much you make is entirely up to you, not industry. That's the beauty of a capitalist free society that made us the wealthiest and strongest country in the world. Jobs are not a social obligation. Nobody signed on to that when they opened up a business. If you want government to determine what you are paid, move to Cuba or North Korea.

So you're for child labor? The exploitation of children by capitalists? Child labor laws aren't in the constitution. Society determines its laws and what government can and can't do. If a capitalist-run society determines that human labor has the right to get paid a living wage, then that's the law. Rights come from society, not from another dimension or from extraterrestrials. Human beings create rights and values and enforce them accordingly.

Capitalism creates gross inequality and requires government intervention to save it every few years. The history of capitalism in the US is one of many booms and busts, a long series of recessions and catastrophic depressions every seven to twelve years, requiring a socialist/government bailout. Without the government, capitalism can't function.

 

[Red Front]

Correct, they do, and that's why they need to learn a trade, a career, or otherwise open up their own business.

If I have a job paying $10.00 an hour, it's up to you to accept or decline it. If you as an applicant apply for the job, and you were stupid enough not to get training in something, had kids you could never afford in the first place, can't pay rent, it's not up to me to overpay you so you can continue with your bad decisions. It's up to you to make your labor worth the money you need to survive.

Tens of millions of Americans don't have the time or money to go to college or even a vocational school, because they work long hours for little pay. They live hand to mouth. If you have a business and need workers, you need to offer them a living wage and that's determined by the cost of living in your area and society, through its government. Just because you want to make a profit and hire human beings for the lowest wage possible, doesn't give you the right to pay people below the established, legal minimum wage. You're not hiring dogs or cats, you're hiring human beings. The government is the arm and power of the people, hence if the people determine that you have to pay your human labor a minimum wage, then that's what you'll have to do.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So you're for child labor? The exploitation of children by capitalists? Child labor laws aren't in the constitution. Society determines its laws and what government can and can't do. If a capitalist-run society determines that human labor has the right to get paid a living wage, then that's the law. Rights come from society, not from another dimension or from extraterrestrials. Human beings create rights and values and enforce them accordingly.

Capitalism creates gross inequality and requires government intervention to save it every few years. The history of capitalism in the US is one of many booms and busts, a long series of recessions and catastrophic depressions every seven to twelve years, requiring a socialist/government bailout. Without the government, capitalism can't function.

Society making laws does not make it a right. Apples and oranges.

You people act as though lower paying jobs is some sort of problem that was created in the last ten years or so. But I'm 62 years old, and I can tell you lower paying starter jobs have been here all of my life. I know because I worked those jobs. You couldn't support yourself or a family on minimum wage in the 70's and you can't support yourself on minimum wage today. Nothing has changed and this is not a new concept.

You see after we worked those jobs and were unhappy with wages, we found better paying jobs. That was the inspiration that made us better ourselves. Social programs didn't pay shit. But as they paid better and better, people substituted bettering themselves for government handouts. And you think the solution is to force industry to pay them more? They will never become anything in a society like that. They will always be failures in life.

Which horse runs faster and longer, the one you dangle a carrot in front of or the one you feed carrots to all day?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Tens of millions of Americans don't have the time or money to go to college or even a vocational school, because they work long hours for little pay. They live hand to mouth. If you have a business and need workers, you need to offer them a living wage and that's determined by the cost of living in your area and society, through its government. Just because you want to make a profit and hire human beings for the lowest wage possible, doesn't give you the right to pay people below the established, legal minimum wage. You're not hiring dogs or cats, you're hiring human beings. The government is the arm and power of the people, hence if the people determine that you have to pay your human labor a minimum wage, then that's what you'll have to do.

"When people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of our Republic."
Benjamin Franklin

As I stated many times, I'm a retired truck driver. Truck driving school is about a few thousand dollars, depending on the school give or take a month to get your CDL, and you have a job that pays up to six figures depending on the work you're willing to do, have a career where you're always in demand, and can travel the country for free.

My father is a retired bricklayer. His union sends out news letters every couple of months to their retirees on their field of work. They are offering their retirees $500.00 for every younger person they can find to join the trade. Granted bricklaying is pretty hard work, but my father made a pretty good living doing it. The pay is in the $55.00 an hour range with benefits considered, and they can't find enough people to do the work. The union pays for all your education, you work as an apprentice making money while you learn, you get a hell of a retirement plan. Can't find people to do the job.

 

[Red Front]

Society making laws does not make it a right. Apples and oranges.

You people act as though lower paying jobs is some sort of problem that was created in the last ten years or so. But I'm 62 years old, and I can tell you lower paying starter jobs have been here all of my life. I know because I worked those jobs. You couldn't support yourself or a family on minimum wage in the 70's and you can't support yourself on minimum wage today. Nothing has changed and this is not a new concept.

You see after we worked those jobs and were unhappy with wages, we found better paying jobs. That was the inspiration that made us better ourselves. Social programs didn't pay shit. But as they paid better and better, people substituted bettering themselves for government handouts. And you think the solution is to force industry to pay them more? They will never become anything in a society like that. They will always be failures in life.

Which horse runs faster and longer, the one you dangle a carrot in front of or the one you feed carrots to all day?

In the 50s, 60s, and 70s, the federal income tax was above 70% and there were plenty of unions and education was much more accessible to most people. Your point is moot. If the cost of living is through the roof and everything is expensive, wages are low, and people don't have healthcare, and can't afford or don't have enough time to go to college or get the job training that they need at a local vocational school, then your right-wing capitalist social theory amounts to gobbledygook.

So-called "free-market" capitalism destroys everything in the name of profits. It privatizes everything, every institution, every former government program, everything becomes for-profit and gets more expensive and unattainable.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In the 50s, 60s, and 70s, the federal income tax was above 70% and there were plenty of unions and education was much more accessible to most people. Your point is moot. If the cost of living is through the roof and everything is expensive, wages are low, and people don't have healthcare, and can't afford or don't have enough time to go to college or get job training that they need at a local vocational school, then your right-wing capitalist social theory amounts to gobbledygook.

Then how is it other people do find the time and money to get into a trade or career? That's right, they didn't start a family right away. The graduated high school, went to school to become an HVAC technician, repaid their loan in a year or so, and are able to easily support themselves and family.

You don't have to go to college to make a good living in this country. UPS is always looking for drivers, and with OT, their senior drivers average 80K a year. The Post Office is now always short of help. No education or training needed for that job either.

Better paying jobs are not going to come knocking at your front door. You have to take the energy to go out and get those jobs.

 

[Red Front]

"When people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of our Republic."
Benjamin Franklin

As I stated many times, I'm a retired truck driver. Truck driving school is about a few thousand dollars, depending on the school give or take a month to get your CDL, and you have a job that pays up to six figures depending on the work you're willing to do, have a career where you're always in demand, and can travel the country for free.

My father is a retired bricklayer. His union sends out news letters every couple of months to their retirees on their field of work. They are offering their retirees $500.00 for every younger person they can find to join the trade. Granted bricklaying is pretty hard work, but my father made a pretty good living doing it. The pay is in the $55.00 an hour range with benefits considered, and they can't find enough people to do the work. The union pays for all your education, you work as an apprentice making money while you learn, you get a hell of a retirement plan. Can't find people to do the job.

Your father was in the workforce in a different era, when you could actually work a blue-collar job in this country and support a family, with one income. My grandfather migrated here in 1961 at the age of 47. He got a job at Bertram Yachts in Miami, Florida, spraying boat molds with fiberglass. He supported his wife, my mother, and my two uncles, and in 1965 he purchased his house in cash, without a mortgage. You're referring to another time, when the working class in this country, after WW2, was living in a very robust, vibrant economy, with plenty of labor rights, benefits, and good pay. My mother went to college on the cheap. Everything was more tenable back then for working-class people. It's not like that anymore.

 

[Indeependent]

Your father was in the workforce in a different era, when you could actually work a blue-collar job in this country and support a family, with one income. My grandfather migrated here in 1961 at the age of 47. He got a job at Bertram Yachts in Miami, Florida, spraying boat molds with fiberglass. He supported his wife, my mother, and my two uncles, and in 1965 he purchased his house in cash, without a mortgage. You're referring to another time, when the working class in this country, after WW2, was living in a very robust, vibrant economy, with plenty of labor rights, benefits, and good pay. My mother went to college on the cheap. Everything was more tenable back then for working-class people. It's not like that anymore.

Let's get rid of the trespassers and see what happens.

 

[Red Front]

Then how is it other people do find the time and money to get into a trade or career? That's right, they didn't start a family right away. The graduated high school, went to school to become an HVAC technician, repaid their loan in a year or so, and are able to easily support themselves and family.

You don't have to go to college to make a good living in this country. UPS is always looking for drivers, and with OT, their senior drivers average 80K a year. The Post Office is now always short of help. No education or training needed for that job either.

Better paying jobs are not going to come knocking at your front door. You have to take the energy to go out and get those jobs.

Do you believe everyone in this country is born and raised in the same environment, under the same conditions, and with access to the exact same resources and opportunities as everyone else? Are you that deluded? About 60% of the working class lives paycheck to paycheck, and don't have the time, money, transportation, housing, intelligence..etc, to get out of the rut that they're in. It doesn't help when right-wingers like you are defunding government programs that allow people to get out of poverty.

The Republicans are good on crime, law enforcement, and being tuff on delinquency, and drugs, whereas the democrats are full of shit when it comes to public order. They're the ones who opened all of the psyche wards in this country in the late 70s, letting all of the loonies out. Much of this:

​

Is due to the liberals, more than anything, being too soft on crime and not institutionalizing the mentally insane, including those who can't function in society due to substance abuse/self-abuse. The Democrats give ammunition to the right-wing Republican politicians, who don't want to house these homeless people and provide them with the social services that they need to get back on their feet and create a life for themselves. Why should the Republicans be in favor of housing and providing government-funded services to a group of people who just want to destroy themselves and everything and everyone around them? The liberals give the conservatives who don't want to house and provide government services to the homeless and poor, "ammunition" / a good reason, not to solve the problem of poverty and homelessness in America.

The people that you see in the above video, should be forced into drug rehab or a mental institution before they're permanently housed and provided with the government services they need to "get a life". The drug dealers should be charged with a capital crime and executed for selling poison to the public. Socialists would solve all of these problems quickly.

Cops are afraid to enforce the law because they don't want to lose their jobs or end up in prison. The liberals want to defund law enforcement. The Republicans on the other hand are horrible when it comes to infrastructure. Not allowing the government to provide a foundation upon which a capitalist economy can function. Supply-side Reagonomics is a disaster, it's what gutted our manufacturing base and our working class.

​

There are people today that have the resources, are in a situation or condition that allows them the time and the resources to eat, have a roof over their heads, have adequate transportation, and also get an education and training. Not everyone enjoys the privilege of being in that position, where they can survive and also go to school. Some people have to work from sunrise, into the night, in order to pay their bills and they simply don't have the time, money, or energy, to dedicate themselves to a college education or vocational training at a local trade school.

More, not everyone can drive a truck. Not everyone can be a mechanic or a technician. It takes a certain level of intelligence, patience, and a "knack" for that type of work. Not everyone has what it takes to be a skilled worker. What do we do with them? Throw them off a cliff? Let them live under a bridge? A civilized society has to account for everyone, not just the people who can acquire valuable, marketable skills (which is of value to a capitalist). This is one of the reasons human labor shouldn't be commodified and turned into a "market" and product. People aren't commodities to be traded in a market.

 

[Red Front]

Let's get rid of the trespassers and see what happens.

You actually think if Mexicans or some other ethnic group you don't like stopped picking tomatoes or closed their tortilla stand on the corner, the American economy would pick itself right up?

 

[Indeependent]

You actually think if Mexicans or some other ethnic group you don't like stopped picking tomatoes or closed their tortilla stand at the corner, the American economy would pick itself right up?

I presume you know that crop collection by machine is approaching 100%, not to mention that most trespassers are not working on farms.

 

[WTH_Progs?]

Hold onto your boot straps, this is our future for certain. The middle class and poor will meet somewhere in the middle. The wealthy will keep services and such afloat, because here's the deal.........We're over-populated, so business can/will charge whatever they want knowing the wealthy will keep them in business. That's why a stay in a nice place runs 1K a night all told, and that's before expenses to even get there.

Soon many will be unemployed, I don't give a fuck what their employment numbers are, they lie. We are/were replaced by technology, and the age of artificial intelligence to replace YOU is approaching very soon. Sure, that will be great for the economy short term. Long term is more of the same as we sold our souls for globalization and internet, a reduced standard of living.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Do you believe everyone in this country is born and raised in the same environment, under the same conditions, and with access to the exact same resources and opportunities as everyone else? Are you that deluded? About 60% of the working class lives paycheck to paycheck, and don't have the time, money, transportation, housing, intelligence..etc, to get out of the rut that they're in. It doesn't help when right-wingers like you are defunding government programs that allow people to get out of poverty.

The Republicans are good on crime, law enforcement, and being tuff on delinquency, and drugs, whereas the democrats are full of shit when it comes to public order. They're the ones who opened all of the psyche wards in this country in the late 70s, letting all of the loonies out. Much of this:

​

Is due to the liberals, more than anything, being too soft on crime and not institutionalizing the mentally insane, including those who can't function in society due to substance abuse/self-abuse. The Democrats give ammunition to the right-wing Republican politicians, who don't want to house these homeless people and provide them with the social services that they need to get back on their feet and create a life for themselves. Why should the Republicans be in favor of housing and providing government-funded services to a group of people who just want to destroy themselves and everything and everyone around them? The liberals give the conservatives who don't want to house and provide government services to the homeless and poor, "ammunition" / a good reason, not to solve the problem of poverty and homelessness in America.

The people that you see in the above video, should be forced into drug rehab or a mental institution before they're permanently housed and provided with the government services they need to "get a life". The drug dealers should be charged with a capital crime and executed for selling poison to the public. Socialists would solve all of these problems quickly.

Cops are afraid to enforce the law because they don't want to lose their jobs or end up in prison. The liberals want to defund law enforcement. The Republicans on the other hand are horrible when it comes to infrastructure. Not allowing the government to provide a foundation upon which a capitalist economy can function. Supply-side Reagonomics is a disaster, it's what gutted our manufacturing base and our working class.

View attachment 754622

View attachment 754623


View attachment 754624​

There are people today that have the resources, are in a situation or condition that allows them the time and the resources to eat, have a roof over their heads, have adequate transportation, and also get an education and training. Not everyone enjoys the privilege of being in that position, where they can survive and also go to school. Some people have to work from sunrise, into the night, in order to pay their bills and they simply don't have the time, money, or energy, to dedicate themselves to a college education or vocational training at a local trade school.

More, not everyone can drive a truck. Not everyone can be a mechanic or a technician. It takes a certain level of intelligence, patience, and a "knack" for that type of work. Not everyone has what it takes to be a skilled worker. What do we do with them? Throw them off a cliff? Let them live under a bridge? A civilized society has to account for everyone, not just the people who can acquire valuable, marketable skills (which is of value to a capitalist). This is one of the reasons human labor shouldn't be commodified and turned into a "market" and product. People aren't commodities to be traded in a market.

I just posted several occupations that don't require education of any kind. Either the education is provided for free or not needed. Most parents are thrilled with their adult children living with them, in fact it's probably another situation that led us to this labor shortage. So whatever it is you decide to do in life, you have to do it while you're young BEFORE you go out and try to support yourself on lower wage jobs, have children, or buying entertainment items you really don't have to have.

There are people out there that don't have the intelligence to have a career; I've seen them before, they've unloaded my truck. They are good people that try very hard. But until we can separate those people from the people that know how to play the system that can work or get a career, it's very hard to concentrate on those that can't. And lumping them altogether is why Republicans are not for more or expanding social programs.

The problem we have is that Democrats know the more government dependents, the more likely Democrat voters. Dementia gave the largest hike in food stamps since the program began in spite of this labor shortage. He expanded the child tax credit making it more inviting for women not to return to work. Now on top of all the government goodies, the federal government will also pay $50.00 of your cable/ internet bill if you make under 200% of poverty level, which is $21,100 for a single person, and of course the more dependents, the higher the limit. If you make less, they will pay even more.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Your father was in the workforce in a different era, when you could actually work a blue-collar job in this country and support a family, with one income. My grandfather migrated here in 1961 at the age of 47. He got a job at Bertram Yachts in Miami, Florida, spraying boat molds with fiberglass. He supported his wife, my mother, and my two uncles, and in 1965 he purchased his house in cash, without a mortgage. You're referring to another time, when the working class in this country, after WW2, was living in a very robust, vibrant economy, with plenty of labor rights, benefits, and good pay. My mother went to college on the cheap. Everything was more tenable back then for working-class people. It's not like that anymore.

I came from a basically single-income household myself. For entertainment we watched television with rabbit ears on top of the set. We didn't have a roof antenna like some lucky people. Seeing a movie meant everybody jump in the station wagon and going to the drive-in, and even that was only a couple times a year. We had one telephone for the family that we shared, one vehicle for dad to get to work. McDonald's was a twice or three times a year treat. All meals were cooked by Mom at home.

So the question is if people can't make it on a single-family income, is it because we spend so much on luxuries today, or is it because there is no possible way to pay for the necessities?

When we talk about cell phones at family gatherings, my father laughs at the thought he pays more for his cell phone plan than he did for the mortgage on the house we grew up in.
'
The bottom line is the reason people live paycheck to paycheck is because they consider luxuries as necessities: 500 channel cable or satellite plan plus on demand movies. Three different video games that require expensive CD's or drives. Cell phones for every member of the family including children; I know some that spend way over $200.00 for that one because all unlimited plans. High speed internet services. Fast food three times a week or more. Of course a lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Be a citizen,qualified Alien,be unemployed or under employed.

That’s it.

What kind of welfare are you referring to? When most people refer to welfare they're referring to Aid For Families With Dependent Children which was then replaced by Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) which limits the amount of time on the program to 5 years.

In either case you have to be the caregiver to a minor Dependent child to get cash for the child's support. And the father cannot live in the household if the government is the entity providing the financial support to care for his child.

I understand that the government will also go after the named father to try to recoup some of the money they spent taking care of his child.

Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) - Overview

 

[initforme]

Bullshit and bad example. When people don't have enough money to eat, they don't stop eating. They'd get more money to buy the food they need. You do know we are in a labor shortage, don't you?

Where exactly is this labor shortage? It's fake news. There's a few open jobs and a falsely created labor shortage. Fact.

 

[initforme]

I came from a basically single-income household myself. For entertainment we watched television with rabbit ears on top of the set. We didn't have a roof antenna like some lucky people. Seeing a movie meant everybody jump in the station wagon and going to the drive-in, and even that was only a couple times a year. We had one telephone for the family that we shared, one vehicle for dad to get to work. McDonald's was a twice or three times a year treat. All meals were cooked by Mom at home.

So the question is if people can't make it on a single-family income, is it because we spend so much on luxuries today, or is it because there is no possible way to pay for the necessities?

When we talk about cell phones at family gatherings, my father laughs at the thought he pays more for his cell phone plan than he did for the mortgage on the house we grew up in.
'
The bottom line is the reason people live paycheck to paycheck is because they consider luxuries as necessities: 500 channel cable or satellite plan plus on demand movies. Three different video games that require expensive CD's or drives. Cell phones for every member of the family including children; I know some that spend way over $200.00 for that one because all unlimited plans. High speed internet services. Fast food three times a week or more. Of course a lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck.

Living paycheck to paycheck is how most of the working class has been forced to do. It's always been this way. That more the company makes the more they cut salaries and benefits.

 

[Red Front]

I presume you know that crop collection by machine is approaching 100%, not to mention that most trespassers are not working on farms.

I presume you also know that advanced automation isn't just going to replace human labor in tomato and strawberry fields, but practically everywhere? Ray mentioned he was a truck driver. We can now automate that job as well, and within ten years you can bet your life on it, that trucks are going to be 100% autonomous, without a human driver. Even paralegals and CT and MRI diagnostics is being replaced with advanced artificial intelligence. With few exceptions, practically everything will be done by a machine guided by artificial intelligence, hence welcome to the era of democratic socialism. We're on the road to democratic communism, whether you like it or not. Hello?

 

[Aldo Raine]

Hell, the Dollar General stores whole business plan is based on EBT.

And?

 

[Indeependent]

I presume you also know that advanced automation isn't just going to replace human labor in tomato and strawberry fields, but practically everywhere? Ray mentioned he was a truck driver. We can now automate that job as well, and within ten years you can bet your life on it, that trucks are going to be 100% autonomous, without a human driver. Even paralegals and CT and MRI diagnostics is being replaced with advanced artificial intelligence. With few exceptions, practically everything will be done by a machine guided by artificial intelligence, hence welcome to the era of democratic socialism. We're on the road to democratic communism, whether you like it or not. Hello?

You know what keeps all this from happening?
Legislation.