Welcome the the Socialist STATES of AMERICA

[Modbert]

You Anti-American piece of slime!

We depose a Dictator, help these folk install and vote on a constitution, set up their own government, spend billions of dollars, thousands of American lives and ask NOTHING in return and a piece of shit like you has the unmitigated gall to say that?

Still haven't answered my question, what's next? Going to call me a terrorist? Let me guess, I was running around with Ayers 21 years before I was born?

We dispose of a Dictator with no plan, leaving a power vaccum that is the root of this Civil War. We help these folk install and vote on a constitution, in which they can't agree on anyway and of course they go on vacation in crucial voting times.

We are close to actually spending trillions of dollars that I, my children, and their children, and their children will end up spending for.

Thousands of American lives that Bush didn't want in the spotlight while he was using "Mission Accomplished." Oh and he still doesn't want them in the spotlight. Can't have a war going well with so many dead brave soldiers dying for a bad cause you know?

By the way, you do know we are asking for something in return? America doesn't help other countries for free. We've had Japan by the balls for the past sixty years for a reason you know.

 

[elvis]

You Anti-American piece of slime!

We depose a Dictator, help these folk install and vote on a constitution, set up their own government, spend billions of dollars, thousands of American lives and ask NOTHING in return and a piece of shit like you has the unmitigated gall to say that?

A dictator Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz supported until he stopped following orders from Washington. Then he became a brutal homocidal maniac.
nothing in return? uh.. yeah ok.
Sorry I'm not a good German, I mean American.

 

[Gray]

Still haven't answered my question, what's next? Going to call me a terrorist? Let me guess, I was running around with Ayers 21 years before I was born?

We dispose of a Dictator with no plan, leaving a power vaccum that is the root of this Civil War. We help these folk install and vote on a constitution, in which they can't agree on anyway and of course they go on vacation in crucial voting times.

We are close to actually spending trillions of dollars that I, my children, and their children, and their children will end up spending for.

Thousands of American lives that Bush didn't want in the spotlight while he was using "Mission Accomplished." Oh and he still doesn't want them in the spotlight. Can't have a war going well with so many dead brave soldiers dying for a bad cause you know?

By the way, you do know we are asking for something in return? America doesn't help other countries for free. We've had Japan by the balls for the past sixty years for a reason you know.

What civil war????

Are you that stupid? Your talking points are about three years (at least) out of date. Things are going very well in Iraq. Not perfect, but very well.

Power vacuum? That is the reason for helping these folk build their Democracy.

Trillions$$$$??? It would be more expensive in money and lives if we had not acted and had let the region fall into the hands of extremists. And in any case as a Lib only the rich pay any fucking taxes anyway!


Dying for a bad cause? Spit on their sacrifice some more. It is what your ilk does best.

Cannot agree on the constitution? It was ratified years ago moron.

 

[Modbert]

What civil war????

Are you that stupid? Your talking points are about three years (at least) out of date. Things are going very well in Iraq. Not perfect, but very well.

Power vacuum? That is the reason for helping these folk build their Democracy.

Trillions$$$$??? It would be more expensive in money and lives if we had not acted and had let the region fall into the hands of extremists. And in any case as a Lib only the rich pay any fucking taxes anyway!


Dying for a bad cause? Spit on their sacrifice some more. It is what your ilk does best.

Cannot agree on the constitution? It was ratified years ago moron.

And you call me uneducated..

I'll just point you to Wikipedia, I can find more if you like.

Civil war in Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Things are going well in Iraq huh? You want to go take a walk down the street wearing a PRO american shirt and see what happens?

Power Vaccum is a term used by people who know the subject, therefore you may not know it. So understandable.

"Trillions$$$$??? It would be more expensive in money and lives if we had not acted and had let the region fall into the hands of extremists. And in any case as a Lib only the rich pay any fucking taxes anyway!"

Uh, if we had not acted then Saddam would still be in power. But according to you he was an extremist so therefore it was in the hands of a extremist and we weren't paying trillions. Also, the only reason the region would of fell into the hands of extremists in the first place is because we went in there with no fucking long-term plan. If we had one of those, we might of been able to get shit done then instead of being stuck there now.

Liberals pay taxes, Liberals not paying taxes is a nice myth of yours.

"Dying for a bad cause? Spit on their sacrifice some more. It is what your ilk does best."

Just like the Vietnam War, our men and women are dying over there for no good reason. In the name of freedom and liberty? We're not the world police. We're over there for oil, Bush's buddies are making billions if not trillions in no-bid contracts ranging from oil to defense.

I'm not spitting on their sacrifice, I just rather not have them die in vain.


"Cannot agree on the constitution? It was ratified years ago moron."

I point to my argument on the Civil war.

This is a battle of wits, and you sir are unarmed.

 

[elvis]

What civil war????

Are you that stupid? Your talking points are about three years (at least) out of date. Things are going very well in Iraq. Not perfect, but very well.

Power vacuum? That is the reason for helping these folk build their Democracy.

Trillions$$$$??? It would be more expensive in money and lives if we had not acted and had let the region fall into the hands of extremists. And in any case as a Lib only the rich pay any fucking taxes anyway!


Dying for a bad cause? Spit on their sacrifice some more. It is what your ilk does best.

Cannot agree on the constitution? It was ratified years ago moron.

Yeah he is spitting on their sacrifice because he doesn't bow down to W

 

[Modbert]

Yeah he is spitting on their sacrifice because he doesn't bow down to W

Well if he has his way, he'll want to be called King George the IV soon.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

With an Obama Presidency, the US will become a socialist country. As soon as he takes office, federal agencies will be tapping our phones, government will get bigger, and banks will be federally owned. Oh wait....

 

[Modbert]

With an Obama Presidency, the US will become a socialist country. As soon as he takes office, federal agencies will be tapping our phones, government will get bigger, and banks will be federally owned. Oh wait....

Had a realization Dirt? Hopefully Gray will have one.

 

[Navy1960]

I am going to try my best IMHO as a life long Republican to put the Bush Years into perspective. First let me say this, it is a fact that Bill Clinton was if you set aside his moral stature a good manager of domestic policy as could be seen in the number of jobs created, the budget surplus, and the overall growth of the economy during his administration. However as a CIC he left much to be desired from his mishandling of the situation in Somalia, to the USS Cole, to the Khobar Towers, to the misguided retribution on suspected terrorist camps in the Sudan. Some give Bill Clinton high marks domestically, however they fail to address the .com boom and bust at the beginning of the Bush Administration. I would say however as a domestic president Bill Clinton was a good president and good manager.

As for Geeorge W. Bush, faced with 9-11 his choice of Don Rumsfeld as SecDef was a terrible choice in that Don Rumsfeld had a rather myopic view and failed to even consider the advice of everyone within the DoD command structure when it came to Iraq or for that matter Afghanistan. He managed the war on the cheap, commiting US Military assets to battle all the while cutting programs right and left. It took over 2 years into the Iraq War to get uparmored Humvee's deployed into the theater. The entire time George Bush as CiC had an obligation to the troops in the field and the nation as a whole to manage the affairs of Don Rumsfeld and his little cardre at the DoD. His blind loyality to those individuals caused much harm in the decision process and you can see the results of a coherent policy now that should have been in place at the outset. As for domestically, during George Bush's tenure this economy during his first term was in a growth cycle and admittedly even if no one will now, it was a time when most were reaping the benefits of a fast and furious housing market. However his failure to also regulate that along with the congress eventually caused a titanic failure of epic proportions which we are all seeing now. As a manager George Bush would rank among the very worst as a president for his loyality to the people around him at the expense of those he was in the office to represent.

It is a fact that the lead up to the War was supported by both Democrat and Republican alike. This retro active trying to distance yourself from that decision simply for political purposes no matter if someone is a democrat or republican shows the person has a lack of courage to admit they supported the War and have simply changed their mind and are simply paying lip service to voters. The fact remains we are in Iraq and will be there for some time regardless of who is elected. The situation there has become at least stable to some degree and as the Iraqi government has expressed a desire to take over the situation , IMO I don't see it as being long before they will have complete control as each day US Forces hand over more and more responsibilites to the Iraqis. If anyone here thinks for a moment this means that all the Brigades in Iraq will be comming home, then think again, both of these men have said that they have a desire to redeploy them to Afghanistan. In conclusion, I would not hold out hope that in Jan. when one of these men become president that the War will end and a chicken will be in every pot.

 

[elvis]

With an Obama Presidency, the US will become a socialist country. As soon as he takes office, federal agencies will be tapping our phones, government will get bigger, and banks will be federally owned. Oh wait....

I don't trust Obama either. I"m just not going to keep quiet when people start defending Bush.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It has never been our intent to police them forever. Their problems will be their own. The internal strife and problems will not be ours.

We still maintain a presence in Germany, Korea, Japan, and 127 other countries around the world. You think we'll honestly just pack our bags and leave? We are in Iraq for the foreseeable future. I won't say 100 years because our empire will surely not last that long.

You Anti-American piece of slime!

We depose a Dictator, help these folk install and vote on a constitution, set up their own government, spend billions of dollars, thousands of American lives and ask NOTHING in return and a piece of shit like you has the unmitigated gall to say that?

What you mean to say is that we illegally invaded a sovereign nation, ousted their government, and all we've really achieved is to bolster Osama bin-Laden's message and make ourselves more hated around the world.

 

[jreeves]

With the implosion of economies all over the world. It has become clear that several weeks ago after the so called " bailout" that this crisis will NOT be diverted by "betting" on the good will of lenders to free up credit. The even bigger question is and I submit that the American system of govt. changed as we knew it that day. We are now oficially a socialist society, no matter who you vote for. The govt. has back-stopped the auto industry, the airline industry, and is now talking about nationalizing some banks. So you want free health care, I say whats the arguement about? You don't live in a non socialist society anymore, you want a free house, why not? Let the govt. buy it for you. The real issue here is even if it is McCain or Obama, they both will NOT change the direction that this country has now decided to go. With McCain proposing a 350 billion dollar home mortgage buy back and Obama's healthcare. The degree of seperation between the two is so small you need a crowbar to pry them apart.

The United Socialist Republic of America.....

 

[elvis]

do we technically have socialism? Does this thing make Bush a socialist?

 

[jreeves]

do we technically have socialism? Does this thing make Bush a socialist?

We live in a mixed market, but we are adopting more and more socialistic principles everyday...

 

[Jon]

do we technically have socialism? Does this thing make Bush a socialist?

The bailout? Yes. Which is why I'm so disgusted McCain supported it.

 

[elvis]

The bailout? Yes. Which is why I'm so disgusted McCain supported it.

Yeah I think he would be in better shape if he had opposed it.

 

[editec]

I am going to try my best IMHO as a life long Republican to put the Bush Years into perspective. First let me say this, it is a fact that Bill Clinton was if you set aside his moral stature a good manager of domestic policy as could be seen in the number of jobs created, the budget surplus, and the overall growth of the economy during his administration. However as a CIC he left much to be desired from his mishandling of the situation in Somalia, to the USS Cole, to the Khobar Towers, to the misguided retribution on suspected terrorist camps in the Sudan. Some give Bill Clinton high marks domestically, however they fail to address the .com boom and bust at the beginning of the Bush Administration. I would say however as a domestic president Bill Clinton was a good president and good manager.

As for Geeorge W. Bush, faced with 9-11 his choice of Don Rumsfeld as SecDef was a terrible choice in that Don Rumsfeld had a rather myopic view and failed to even consider the advice of everyone within the DoD command structure when it came to Iraq or for that matter Afghanistan. He managed the war on the cheap, commiting US Military assets to battle all the while cutting programs right and left. It took over 2 years into the Iraq War to get uparmored Humvee's deployed into the theater. The entire time George Bush as CiC had an obligation to the troops in the field and the nation as a whole to manage the affairs of Don Rumsfeld and his little cardre at the DoD. His blind loyality to those individuals caused much harm in the decision process and you can see the results of a coherent policy now that should have been in place at the outset. As for domestically, during George Bush's tenure this economy during his first term was in a growth cycle and admittedly even if no one will now, it was a time when most were reaping the benefits of a fast and furious housing market. However his failure to also regulate that along with the congress eventually caused a titanic failure of epic proportions which we are all seeing now. As a manager George Bush would rank among the very worst as a president for his loyality to the people around him at the expense of those he was in the office to represent.

It is a fact that the lead up to the War was supported by both Democrat and Republican alike. This retro active trying to distance yourself from that decision simply for political purposes no matter if someone is a democrat or republican shows the person has a lack of courage to admit they supported the War and have simply changed their mind and are simply paying lip service to voters. The fact remains we are in Iraq and will be there for some time regardless of who is elected. The situation there has become at least stable to some degree and as the Iraqi government has expressed a desire to take over the situation , IMO I don't see it as being long before they will have complete control as each day US Forces hand over more and more responsibilites to the Iraqis. If anyone here thinks for a moment this means that all the Brigades in Iraq will be comming home, then think again, both of these men have said that they have a desire to redeploy them to Afghanistan. In conclusion, I would not hold out hope that in Jan. when one of these men become president that the War will end and a chicken will be in every pot.

I'd have repped you for this thoughtful analysis, NAVY, but apprently I need to rep other people before I can.

If I can interupt this rehash of the sensiblity of having gotten involved with Iraq for a moment and return us to the topic, I just want to point out that bailing out those banks is SOCIALISM, but taking over those banks by puchasing their stocks is not socialism.

In the case of AIG, for example, the American government purchased 80% of that company's stock.

That's not nationalizing that company, that's BUYING it.

And that is EXACTLY what we should do with every bank which goes belly up, too. Not buy their bad paper but buy their stocks at MARKET VALUE.

BUY IT at a the fair market value that it's STOCK PRICES on the OPEN MARKET indicate their value.

That way we can at least back out of our government owning those banks in the future.

How do we back out, you ask?

Simple, we can sell the stock on the stock market over time assuming that those companies survive this crises.

It's not much, I know, but approaching this problem in this way at least prevents the US government from becoming ENTIRELY SOCIALIST, and gives us an avenue to return to something approaching a capitalist society in the future.

The irony that I am trying to find a capitalist silver lining in this mess is more than just a little strange, but these are strange times and strange times call for creative thinking.

 

[Gray]

We still maintain a presence in Germany, Korea, Japan, and 127 other countries around the world. You think we'll honestly just pack our bags and leave? We are in Iraq for the foreseeable future. I won't say 100 years because our empire will surely not last that long.

If they ask us to leave we will. We will not have a choice. Maintaining a presence in the regions of the world is what has kept you free. Evil must be confronted...and even with our technology we cannot be everywhere at once.

Without our presence in many of these places the regions would destabilize.
Our being there keeps the wolves from the door.

Isolationism like you suggest is the fastest way to plunge us either into a World War or into one war after another.

What you mean to say is that we illegally invaded a sovereign nation, ousted their government, and all we've really achieved is to bolster Osama bin-Laden's message and make ourselves more hated around the world.

"Invaded a Soveriegn Nation" For very good reasons. Most of the Dems in Congress voted to authorize this action and then smelled the chance for political gain and spent the following years fighting for the enemy.

Al-queda had been decimated. Not Strengthened. They have all but given up in Iraq. The people Of Iraq have decided that they want these terrorists dead. We could have accomplished this sooner if Liberal like you and the ones in DC had not been cheering and fighting for the enemy.


"Hated Around the World"? As long as we are successful we will have those who do not like us. If being liked means being a Poor, weak nation then I say that they can hate us forever. I really do not care.

 

[nia588]

Im not an advocate of socialism. but would it really be that bad? In Europe they have socialism and their economy is doing well. the British pound and euro are some of the strongest currencies in the world. the people have free health care and university is affordable. and at the same time they still have democratic elections and other democratic processes.

 

[Gray]

Im not an advocate of socialism. but would it really be that bad? In Europe they have socialism and their economy is doing well. the British pound and euro are some of the strongest currencies in the world. the people have free health care and university is affordable. and at the same time they still have democratic elections and other democratic processes.

Health care? You will die waiting to see a doctor. They have total control of every aspect.

Standard of living? Most are at a level with much of our poor here.

Cultural identity? Take France as an example. They will cease to exist as a race in a brief time in this history. The low birth rate combined with the influx of foreigners (Many muslims) causes the constitution to be altered bit by bit.

The freedoms are vanishing.

You do not want freedom.....you want a safety net.