We The People.

[eagle1462010]

James Madison, the main mind behind most of the US Constitution advised President Jefferson to restrict trading and US liberty serving under President Jefferson in 1807, Madison and Jefferson enacted an embargo on all trade with Britain and France.

The Northern states protested as it hurt their livelihood hard.

James Madison, the main writer of the US constitution.

Think about that for a bit.

Tariffs were used for about 200 years......either by direct payments are protectionism.............Was the primary means of income for the Gov't for a very long time......until the Gov't found a way to screw the people and get more POWER..........now to the point of INSANITY.....

The Enumerated powers escapes you.............as does the meaning of the Federalist papers.

No Madison and Jefferson barred commerce, they did not just put up tarrifs.


Alexander Hamilton was a major writer in the Federalist papers.

I quote:

“On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgment, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants.
”
― Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers

Which is under the enumerated powers..........to regulate commerce.....................embargoes are part of that enumerated power................

Again..............they enumerated powers to avoid a powerful central gov't.............it's all over the Federalist papers.....to anyone capable of reading.

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

James Madison, the main mind behind most of the US Constitution advised President Jefferson to restrict trading and US liberty serving under President Jefferson in 1807, Madison and Jefferson enacted an embargo on all trade with Britain and France.

The Northern states protested as it hurt their livelihood hard.

James Madison, the main writer of the US constitution.

Think about that for a bit.

Tariffs were used for about 200 years......either by direct payments are protectionism.............Was the primary means of income for the Gov't for a very long time......until the Gov't found a way to screw the people and get more POWER..........now to the point of INSANITY.....

The Enumerated powers escapes you.............as does the meaning of the Federalist papers.

No Madison and Jefferson barred commerce, they did not just put up tarrifs.


Alexander Hamilton was a major writer in the Federalist papers.

I quote:

“On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgment, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants.
”
― Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers

Which is under the enumerated powers..........to regulate commerce.....................embargoes are part of that enumerated power................

Again..............they enumerated powers to avoid a powerful central gov't.............it's all over the Federalist papers.....to anyone capable of reading.

The actual writers of the constitution used these powers as I have demonstrated over and over again, do think they thought such powers existed?

 

[eagle1462010]

James Madison, the main mind behind most of the US Constitution advised President Jefferson to restrict trading and US liberty serving under President Jefferson in 1807, Madison and Jefferson enacted an embargo on all trade with Britain and France.

The Northern states protested as it hurt their livelihood hard.

James Madison, the main writer of the US constitution.

Think about that for a bit.

Tariffs were used for about 200 years......either by direct payments are protectionism.............Was the primary means of income for the Gov't for a very long time......until the Gov't found a way to screw the people and get more POWER..........now to the point of INSANITY.....

The Enumerated powers escapes you.............as does the meaning of the Federalist papers.

No Madison and Jefferson barred commerce, they did not just put up tarrifs.


Alexander Hamilton was a major writer in the Federalist papers.

I quote:

“On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgment, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants.
”
― Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers

Which is under the enumerated powers..........to regulate commerce.....................embargoes are part of that enumerated power................

Again..............they enumerated powers to avoid a powerful central gov't.............it's all over the Federalist papers.....to anyone capable of reading.

The actual writers of the constitution used these powers as I have demonstrated over and over again, do think they thought such powers existed?

Baloney...........you used an example of a enumerated power.

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

James Madison, the main mind behind most of the US Constitution advised President Jefferson to restrict trading and US liberty serving under President Jefferson in 1807, Madison and Jefferson enacted an embargo on all trade with Britain and France.

The Northern states protested as it hurt their livelihood hard.

James Madison, the main writer of the US constitution.

Think about that for a bit.

Tariffs were used for about 200 years......either by direct payments are protectionism.............Was the primary means of income for the Gov't for a very long time......until the Gov't found a way to screw the people and get more POWER..........now to the point of INSANITY.....

The Enumerated powers escapes you.............as does the meaning of the Federalist papers.

No Madison and Jefferson barred commerce, they did not just put up tarrifs.


Alexander Hamilton was a major writer in the Federalist papers.

I quote:

“On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgment, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants.
”
― Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers

Which is under the enumerated powers..........to regulate commerce.....................embargoes are part of that enumerated power................

Again..............they enumerated powers to avoid a powerful central gov't.............it's all over the Federalist papers.....to anyone capable of reading.

The actual writers of the constitution used these powers as I have demonstrated over and over again, do think they thought such powers existed?

Baloney...........you used an example of a enumerated power.

Banning economic activity, as in a lock down.

So you such claim it is an enumerated power then?

 

[eagle1462010]

James Madison, the main mind behind most of the US Constitution advised President Jefferson to restrict trading and US liberty serving under President Jefferson in 1807, Madison and Jefferson enacted an embargo on all trade with Britain and France.

The Northern states protested as it hurt their livelihood hard.

James Madison, the main writer of the US constitution.

Think about that for a bit.

Tariffs were used for about 200 years......either by direct payments are protectionism.............Was the primary means of income for the Gov't for a very long time......until the Gov't found a way to screw the people and get more POWER..........now to the point of INSANITY.....

The Enumerated powers escapes you.............as does the meaning of the Federalist papers.

No Madison and Jefferson barred commerce, they did not just put up tarrifs.


Alexander Hamilton was a major writer in the Federalist papers.

I quote:

“On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgment, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants.
”
― Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers

Which is under the enumerated powers..........to regulate commerce.....................embargoes are part of that enumerated power................

Again..............they enumerated powers to avoid a powerful central gov't.............it's all over the Federalist papers.....to anyone capable of reading.

The actual writers of the constitution used these powers as I have demonstrated over and over again, do think they thought such powers existed?

Baloney...........you used an example of a enumerated power.

Banning economic activity, as in a lock down.

So you such claim it is an enumerated power then?

Your examples were from foreign gov'ts............did you fall on your head at birth or did it happen later in life?

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

James Madison, the main mind behind most of the US Constitution advised President Jefferson to restrict trading and US liberty serving under President Jefferson in 1807, Madison and Jefferson enacted an embargo on all trade with Britain and France.

The Northern states protested as it hurt their livelihood hard.

James Madison, the main writer of the US constitution.

Think about that for a bit.

Tariffs were used for about 200 years......either by direct payments are protectionism.............Was the primary means of income for the Gov't for a very long time......until the Gov't found a way to screw the people and get more POWER..........now to the point of INSANITY.....

The Enumerated powers escapes you.............as does the meaning of the Federalist papers.

No Madison and Jefferson barred commerce, they did not just put up tarrifs.


Alexander Hamilton was a major writer in the Federalist papers.

I quote:

“On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgment, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants.
”
― Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers

Which is under the enumerated powers..........to regulate commerce.....................embargoes are part of that enumerated power................

Again..............they enumerated powers to avoid a powerful central gov't.............it's all over the Federalist papers.....to anyone capable of reading.

The actual writers of the constitution used these powers as I have demonstrated over and over again, do think they thought such powers existed?

Baloney...........you used an example of a enumerated power.

Banning economic activity, as in a lock down.

So you such claim it is an enumerated power then?

Your examples were from foreign gov'ts............did you fall on your head at birth or did it happen later in life?

So you do not think the early founding fathers never imposed domestic restraints on personal liberty?

I think you are forgetting George Washington, the father of the nation crushing the Whiskey Rebellion.

The father of the nation stated you cannot do what ever the fuck you want you slack jawed hicks, there are rules in any civilisation.

And even in virus outbreaks the early republic imposed domestic restrictions.

I refer you to the conservative Cato institute for further details.

Are the Lockdown Orders Constitutional?

If you want to know whether something is unconstitutional, one group you might ask is judges. And in early rounds of litigation, a reasonably clear—and, to many of us, unsurprising—answer is emerging.

www.cato.org

"Bans on assembly, movement, and badly needed economic activity? Citizens of the early Republic went through all these and much more. Churches shut their doors. People were routinely cooped up in their homes — contrary to some recent speculation, there was no general practice of applying restrictions only to the sick. Not long after the adoption of the new Constitution, the nation’s capital of Philadelphia was struck with a deadly outbreak of yellow fever; persons fleeing the city in the direction of places like Baltimore were turned back at gunpoint, while Alexander Hamilton and his wife Eliza, after surviving the illness, had to undergo quarantine at the behest of authorities in Albany, N.Y. whence they had fled."

 

[keepitreal]

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Notice how the term 'promote the general welfare" comes before "secure the blessings of liberty."

Because the latter cannot exist without the former.

Self centred, idiot, gun toting half wits, flag waving morons demanding they do what ever they want to do during a pandemic as their fellow countrymen die is anarchy, it is not liberty.

My body, my right

 

[gipper]

LOL.

Arguing over the meaning of the Constitution is a terrible waste of time. It’s been dead for a long time.

 

[sparky]

My flag waving, slack jawed, gun toting friends, a quick tap dance through history will reveal human liberty can only exist in a society and society can only exist if the slacked jawed do not wreck it all in selfish and cowardly self indulgence.

So what is your definition of 'liberty' then?

~S~

 

[gipper]

My flag waving, slack jawed, gun toting friends, a quick tap dance through history will reveal human liberty can only exist in a society and society can only exist if the slacked jawed do not wreck it all in selfish and cowardly self indulgence.

So what is your definition of 'liberty' then?

~S~

Seems to me arguing about aspects of the Constitution is disingenuous and sadly laughable. The constitution means almost nothing today, when you consider the fact that habeas corpus, a principal that was founded in the Magna Carta of 1215, was quietly eliminated by our previous president.


The end of Habeas Corpus for US citizens

The National Defense Authorization Act [4] signed by President Obama on the 31st December 2011 authorises the indefinite detention, without trial or indictement, of any US citizens designated as enemies by the executive. The individuals concerned are not only those who have been captured on the field of battle, but also those who have never left the United States or participated in any military action. The law concerns any person designated by the administration as “a member of Al-Qaeda or the Taliban, and who takes part in hostile action against the United States”, but also anyone who “substantially supports these organisations”. This formula enables an extensive and flexible use of the law. For example, it would enable the government to lash out at any civil defence organisations who seek to protect the constitutional rights of US citizens who have been designated by the executive as enemies of the USA.
The Suspension of Habeas Corpus in America - Global Research

 

[progressive hunter]

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Notice how the term 'promote the general welfare" comes before "secure the blessings of liberty."

Because the latter cannot exist without the former.

Self centred, idiot, gun toting half wits, flag waving morons demanding they do what ever they want to do during a pandemic as their fellow countrymen die is anarchy, it is not liberty.

FFS what are you some kinda fucking nazi wanna be???

 

[Bob Blaylock]

My flag waving, slack jawed, gun toting friends, a quick tap dance through history will reveal human liberty can only exist in a society and society can only exist if the slacked jawed do not wreck it all in selfish and cowardly self indulgence.

So what is your definition of 'liberty' then?

To those like Jackass WANKER Frogbrain, liberty is the freedom to do, say, and think whatever Big Brother tells them to.

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

It is clear, the general welfare clause does allow for the states to limit personal liberties during a pandemic (they just have to go through legislative process, which Wisconsin did not do) and the elastic clause gives even the Federal government power to aid the states in such restrictions of individual liberty during a pandemic or even local disease outbreak.

How do we know that is what the Founders wanted?

Because as I have shown above or if you care to research such they not only allowed the states to impose quarantines in their own time they obeyed them as well.

Because they were patriots and not lunatic mad men demanding like children they do what ever they personal want to do during times of community or national peril.

I hate to tell you this, but Fox News did not draft the constitution.

And you are not being patriots, you are being traitors to your fellow citizens.

 

[OldLady]

View attachment 336703

Hillary Clinton
@HillaryClinton

Armed men storming a legislature to disrupt its democratic proceedings is domestic terrorism. It cannot be tolerated.

Michigan closes down capitol in face of death threats from armed protesters against Gov. Whitmer
"I would be lying if I said that sitting in my chair with four men in rifles behind me didn't make me think that I was going to be [dying] very soon," one legislator said.
newsweek.com
Eat cock socialist nazi pigs


View attachment 336704

Jefferson was a smart man who had just lived through a long, hard war against an unfair government. He was WAY too smart to think that a temporary shut down due to a serious pandemic was a good reason to take up arms against the government.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Jefferson was a smart man who had just lived through a long, hard war against an unfair government. He was WAY too smart to think that a temporary shut down due to a serious pandemic was a good reason to take up arms against the government.

He was too smart to think that allowing government to get away with something as outrageous as the #CoronoHoax2020 shutdown was a good idea, and something that the people should sheepishly submit to.

It was Jefferson who wrote of the need for the Tree of Liberty to be watered regularly with the blood of tyrants. I have no doubt that if he were alive today, he would agree with me that the Tree of Liberty is very thirsty indeed, and treaty it is way past time to give it a very good watering. The #CoronoHoax2020 shutdown by itself, is more than a good enough reason for this, but it is, in fact only the latest of a long, escalating line of abuses. In his time, Jefferson would surely have called for this watering to happen long before we got to the point of a #CoronoHoax2020-like shutdown.

 

[OldLady]

it is, in fact only the latest of a long, escalating line of abuses.

Okay, I'll buy that. The government has grown like a bloated leech and with developing technology they now have us up against the wall. I'm just saying the pandemic precautions are a stupid hill to stand on.

 

[OldLady]

Because as I have shown above or if you care to research such they not only allowed the states to impose quarantines in their own time they obeyed them as well.

They're not going to listen to reason, Jake. They are unhappy. They've whined and cried about the media and the Mueller investigation and now the lockdown because they're babies who think no one should criticize their hero. Doesn't mean they can't criticize -- STILL -- Obama or Hillary. That's fine. They can dish it out but they can't take it.

Now anyone who is following the social distancing measures is "hiding in their basement." They're the ones who are wimps.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

it is, in fact only the latest of a long, escalating line of abuses.

Okay, I'll buy that. The government has grown like a bloated leech and with developing technology they now have us up against the wall. I'm just saying the pandemic precautions are a stupid hill to stand on.

It's as good as any, though there are plenty of others on which we ought to have taken this stand long before we allowed it to reach this point. If this is where enough of us finally wake up, stand up, and tell the criminals who presume to rule over us, “No more!”, then so be it.

 

[sparky]

It is clear, the general welfare clause does allow for the states to limit personal liberties during a pandemic (they just have to go through legislative process, which Wisconsin did not do) and the elastic clause gives even the Federal government power to aid the states in such restrictions of individual liberty during a pandemic or even local disease outbreak.

How do we know that is what the Founders wanted?

Because as I have shown above or if you care to research such they not only allowed the states to impose quarantines in their own time they obeyed them as well.

Because they were patriots and not lunatic mad men demanding like children they do what ever they personal want to do during times of community or national peril.

I hate to tell you this, but Fox News did not draft the constitution.

And you are not being patriots, you are being traitors to your fellow citizens.

Even if we were to conceded to this constitutional 'snooze button' , just WHO draws the lockdown line is up to the 'people' , NOT jackbooted officials whom the FF's in no way shape or form wanted imposed upon 'We The People'

That this simple constitutional fundamental escapes them is evident, obvious, obnoxious, and 'we the people' are patriots for pointing it out our welfare in any situation is our call, not theirs.

In fact, it's high time we the people locked down our monolithic governance , dictate who is essential ,and who is not, and then decide what crumbs of relief they get, while they wonder if they have a job ,when WE decide to spring 'em

~S~

 

[Jake Winker Frogen]

Jefferson was a smart man who had just lived through a long, hard war against an unfair government. He was WAY too smart to think that a temporary shut down due to a serious pandemic was a good reason to take up arms against the government.

He was too smart to think that allowing government to get away with something as outrageous as the #CoronoHoax2020 shutdown was a good idea, and something that the people should sheepishly submit to.

It was Jefferson who wrote of the need for the Tree of Liberty to be watered regularly with the blood of tyrants. I have no doubt that if he were alive today, he would agree with me that the Tree of Liberty is very thirsty indeed, and treaty it is way past time to give it a very good watering. The #CoronoHoax2020 shutdown by itself, is more than a good enough reason for this, but it is, in fact only the latest of a long, escalating line of abuses. In his time, Jefferson would surely have called for this watering to happen long before we got to the point of a #CoronoHoax2020-like shutdown.

Jefferson said a lot of things, then he got into power and used Presidential power to his purpose, constitutional or not.

It is clear, the general welfare clause does allow for the states to limit personal liberties during a pandemic (they just have to go through legislative process, which Wisconsin did not do) and the elastic clause gives even the Federal government power to aid the states in such restrictions of individual liberty during a pandemic or even local disease outbreak.

How do we know that is what the Founders wanted?

Because as I have shown above or if you care to research such they not only allowed the states to impose quarantines in their own time they obeyed them as well.

Because they were patriots and not lunatic mad men demanding like children they do what ever they personal want to do during times of community or national peril.

I hate to tell you this, but Fox News did not draft the constitution.

And you are not being patriots, you are being traitors to your fellow citizens.

Even if we were to conceded to this constitutional 'snooze button' , just WHO draws the lockdown line is up to the 'people' , NOT jackbooted officials whom the FF's in no way shape or form wanted imposed upon 'We The People'

That this simple constitutional fundamental escapes them is evident, obvious, obnoxious, and 'we the people' are patriots for pointing it out our welfare in any situation is our call, not theirs.

In fact, it's high time we the people locked down our monolithic governance , dictate who is essential ,and who is not, and then decide what crumbs of relief they get, while they wonder if they have a job ,when WE decide to spring 'em

~S~

You do know you live in a representative Republic, with elected officials, not Thunderdome?