We are becoming a nation of college-degreed numbskulls

[initforme]

Perhaps people don't want to be relegated to blue collar low paying labor and want a better shot than working in some lousy factory for some ill conceited owner for $10 an hour. We are constantly told that we need to get the skills to make more money so we don't need gov't assistance. A degree is one tool that gets one ahead.

 

[Unkotare]

When President Kennedy started them, community colleges were free. They're as much as regular universities now. .

No they weren't and no they aren't.

 

[BlackSand]

Perhaps people don't want to be relegated to blue collar low paying labor and want a better shot than working in some lousy factory for some ill conceited owner for $10 an hour. We are constantly told that we need to get the skills to make more money so we don't need gov't assistance. A degree is one tool that gets one ahead.

General Contractors, Plumbers, and Electricians often make more money than School Teachers, Journalists and Nurses. If you don't want to work for $10 a hour in a factory ... That doesn't mean a degree in puppetry will work out any better.

Get a marketable skill either from college or the trades and you will earn more than $10 a hour. If that is not enough, open your own business and make even more if you have skills.

.

 

[DGS49]

A few observations:

In 1930, only 1/4 of the general population graduated from high school. High schools taught classic literature, latin, math through calculus, GRAMMAR, and HISTORY, as well as geography. A high school diploma MEANT SOMETHING. My own father had to drop out of school when he was 14 to help support the family, and went to night school for years to complete the HS diploma, because you simply could not get a decent job without one.

The combination of the Baby Boom and the Vietnam war KILLED American higher education. Colleges expanded beyond all rational consideration in order to accommodate the masses of BB high school grads, and pinko professors who were horrified at the prospect of failing someone and (indirectly) causing them to get drafted, which resulted in watered down courses, requirements, and much more liberal grading. In 1965 a college education was a significant accomplishment, and most good schools had a significant amount of attrition, as students who couldn't cut it were weeded out. Harvard notoriously told its incoming Freshmen that 2/3 of them would wash out (this was an exaggeration, but taken seriously by incoming freshmen). By 1975, attrition by academic failure was essentially non-existent in most schools. If you show up and pay the tuition, you are golden.

Our higher education system should be patterned on Germany's. Admission is entirely on merit, and limited to those at the top of the academic pyramid. Tuition is essentially free. People who cannot get into a university are channeled into technical or trade schooling that ensures that they will be productive and reasonably prosperous. THERE ARE NO INTERCOLLEGIATE SPORTS. Our emphasis on NCAA sports is positively baffling to Germans, as it makes no logical sense whatsoever.

Universities have always taught some subjects with little or no economic value - literature, philosophy, theology, the Arts, and so on, and there is nothing wrong with that. But middle-class kids who will have to support themselves after graduation are foolish to study anything with "studies" at the end of it, particularly when they will amass a significant load of debt in the process.

Yes, I would like fries with that, professor.

 

[HenryBHough]

I took a "summer job" after my freshman year and 6 weeks later was assigned an assistant who had just graduated from the university to which I was supposed to return.

He was such an inept asshole that I stayed on the job a full year then resumed at a different college after meeting some of THEIR grads. Not as big a "brand name" but one hell of a lot better instruction!

But I must concede that the Ivy League Anal Aperture did get a very thorough indoctrination in despising free enterprise. I believe he still does some street reporting for "a major network".

 

[Agit8r]

"Use the active voice" falls in the category of "bad writing rules". Many sources say to avoid the passive voice, but they can't actually give a good reason to avoid it. Passive voice is often the better way to go. For example,

A. "The steak was perfectly cooked"

B. "The chef cooked the steak perfectly."

Sentence A, using passive voice, is a better choice than sentence B with the active voice. If the entity performing the action is irrelevant, there's no point in using active voice to mention that entity.

Other bad writing rules we've been taught (hey, passive voice) are "don't split infinitives", "don't end a sentence with a preposition", and "don't start a sentence with a conjunction".

In corporate-speak, the passive voice is indeed favored in most circumstances. This is done in order to address problems without the discussion devolving into orgiastic finger-pointing, name-calling and score-settling.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

There are garbage degrees, and worthwhile ones. Employers can spot them.

Some degrees, like in math, engineering, chemistry, etc. will earn you 80k out of the college. Basketweaving is an impediment to getting a job sorting at a recycling plant.

I live in a college town. I see what the kids are doing at the coffee shops when the discuss their homework. some of it is very amazing. and some of it is embarrassing. The amazing ones will go far. The other ones will have loans that will saddle them forever.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

I always was told that passive voice was rude. Some agent did something. The passive voice just evades responsibility

 

[Agit8r]

The passive voice just evades responsibility

like I was saying, it is popular in corporate culture.

 

[DGS49]

People are very reluctant to use "I" and "we" in formal letters, so they come up with nonsense like, "It was concluded that there were significant shortcomings in your work product," rather than "We think you suck."

Pity. The world would be a better place...

 

[Unkotare]

The passive voice just evades responsibility

No it doesn't. It just focuses on the object when the subject is not the intended or appropriate aspect of the sentence.

 

[Spare_change]

Well then should we tell a kid to start out for low wages working for some loser boss or should we encourage them to get educated in a needed field and start out much better off? If the first choice is your pick then you also don't have any problem with them living at home until they are 30.

... especially when the other option is that they can live at home until they're 30, know how to say "Would you like fries with that?" in three languages, and owe $60,000 in student loans.

 

[Spare_change]

When I went to Kent State [1964-68], majors were limited to subjects that prepared students to enter a profession. Now this university, like others, offer ''party-school majors'' such as gay studies, women studies, pan-African studies, and integrated studies [for seniors who failed to choose and pursue a major]. When I was a supervisory attorney for a federal agency, I was astounded that members of my staff lacked basic writing skills [eg, use of the active voice, use of parallel construction] and had no idea of what I was explaining because they ''weren't English majors.'' One attorney, of sorts, had no clue about when the American Civil War occurred. [I did not hire them. I ''inherited'' them upon transfer.]

I believe student loans should be eliminated and replaced with outright grants to the best and brightest high school students who commit to pursuing careers in medicine, law, journalism, accounting, business administration, architecture, engineering, mathematics, sciences, social work, education, and other useful occupations. I know this view is elitist, but the student loan program is producing a nation of debtors with college degrees who cannot express themselves beyond a 140-character text or intelligently discuss any topic of history or science.

Many schools do maintain high academic standards; however, far too often, a school's reputation rests either on its athletic success or its easy curriculum qualifying it as a '''party school'' at the expense of wealthy parents or the taxpayers.

I invite your opinion and experiences.

College degrees at this point show who's a moron more than who's intelligent. Tells you who went into lifelong debt for a piece of paper vs those that knew better.

I didn't have any debt for my three.

And you graduated when? Recently? Or decades ago?

1987, 1998, and 2013. My claim covers decades but is still the same.

My daughter starts college next year and I can stay the same for her.

Yes, but, with three degrees, can you SAY the same for her?

 

[Spare_change]

Perhaps people don't want to be relegated to blue collar low paying labor and want a better shot than working in some lousy factory for some ill conceited owner for $10 an hour. We are constantly told that we need to get the skills to make more money so we don't need gov't assistance. A degree is one tool that gets one ahead.

Used to be ... today?? Not so much ...

 

[Baruch Menachem]

The passive voice just evades responsibility

No it doesn't. It just focuses on the object when the subject is not the intended or appropriate aspect of the sentence.

I just feel that it does. Your milage obviously varies, but something happened with an agent making it so is better manners than it just happened with no one being responsible.

I feel also that the passive voice is just bad writing. It is boring, as well.

 

[Unkotare]

The passive voice just evades responsibility

No it doesn't. It just focuses on the object when the subject is not the intended or appropriate aspect of the sentence.

I just feel that it does. ....

You are taking syntax too personally.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The government became involved.
What did you expect?
When colleges, especially two-year, gets over 70% of the tuition paid by Uncle Sam - you think they are going to kick students out for not learning? Hell no. Just make them take courses over, drag the two year degree to four - and have the taxpayer foot the ENTIRE tuition PLUS room and board (many cases also paid to colleges for campus outrageously overpriced apts.)
If you have a child in college now - chances are they know all too well what the term "OBT" means.

 

[Unkotare]

. Just make them take courses over, drag the two year degree to four - and have the taxpayer foot the ENTIRE tuition PLUS room and board (many cases also paid to colleges for campus outrageously overpriced apts.)...

Most community colleges do not have housing.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

. Just make them take courses over, drag the two year degree to four - and have the taxpayer foot the ENTIRE tuition PLUS room and board (many cases also paid to colleges for campus outrageously overpriced apts.)...

Most community colleges do not have housing.

No...no they don't. Annnd....???

 

[Unkotare]

. Just make them take courses over, drag the two year degree to four - and have the taxpayer foot the ENTIRE tuition PLUS room and board (many cases also paid to colleges for campus outrageously overpriced apts.)...

Most community colleges do not have housing.

No...no they don't. Annnd....???

And read your own post.