We are becoming a nation of college-degreed numbskulls

When I went to Kent State [1964-68], majors were limited to subjects that prepared students to enter a profession. Now this university, like others, offer ''party-school majors'' such as gay studies, women studies, pan-African studies, and integrated studies [for seniors who failed to choose and pursue a major]. When I was a supervisory attorney for a federal agency, I was astounded that members of my staff lacked basic writing skills [eg, use of the active voice, use of parallel construction] and had no idea of what I was explaining because they ''weren't English majors.'' One attorney, of sorts, had no clue about when the American Civil War occurred. [I did not hire them. I ''inherited'' them upon transfer.]

I believe student loans should be eliminated and replaced with outright grants to the best and brightest high school students who commit to pursuing careers in medicine, law, journalism, accounting, business administration, architecture, engineering, mathematics, sciences, social work, education, and other useful occupations. I know this view is elitist, but the student loan program is producing a nation of debtors with college degrees who cannot express themselves beyond a 140-character text or intelligently discuss any topic of history or science.

Many schools do maintain high academic standards; however, far too often, a school's reputation rests either on its athletic success or its easy curriculum qualifying it as a '''party school'' at the expense of wealthy parents or the taxpayers.

I invite your opinion and experiences.

really? a college degree prepared you for a profession?

never.

colleges were always supposed to be places of diverse learning. majors could be anything from art history to nuclear science.

some degrees better prepared you for a job, others not so much.

maybe you smoked too much at kent state back then to remember? :D
 
"Use the active voice" falls in the category of "bad writing rules". Many sources say to avoid the passive voice, but they can't actually give a good reason to avoid it. Passive voice is often the better way to go. For example,

A. "The steak was perfectly cooked"

B. "The chef cooked the steak perfectly."

Sentence A, using passive voice, is a better choice than sentence B with the active voice. If the entity performing the action is irrelevant, there's no point in using active voice to mention that entity.

Other bad writing rules we've been taught (hey, passive voice) are "don't split infinitives", "don't end a sentence with a preposition", and "don't start a sentence with a conjunction".

The OP Left a mark
 
"Use the active voice" falls in the category of "bad writing rules". Many sources say to avoid the passive voice, but they can't actually give a good reason to avoid it...


There are very good reasons. Over-use of the passive voice makes material laborious to read, leads to a lack of sentence variety, and usually results in repetition generally. As an easily recognizable sentence pattern, it is all too easy for younger students or second language learners to become overly dependent on it. I don't know if you've ever read an essay written almost entirely in the passive voice, but it makes you want to pull your eyes out. Students are encouraged to avoid it so that they don't use it too much. It still comes up where it naturally fits the context and syntax, of course.
 
Well then should we tell a kid to start out for low wages working for some loser boss or should we encourage them to get educated in a needed field and start out much better off? If the first choice is your pick then you also don't have any problem with them living at home until they are 30.
 
A college degree carries as much weight today as a high school degree carried 30 years ago. College is now more of a business enterprise than anything to do with education.

I have been told that my college degree over qualified me for the job.
 
People who get degrees in something like black studies, women's studies, or Hispanic studies are wasting their time and money. Do not worry about them. Do not emulate them either.
 
Well, it is science FICTION, not true science.

I fell in love with the original Star Trek as a kid. I still love watching the reruns, but now I know enough to recognize how sone of the technobabble in the series is plain impossible. But hey! It's Fiction.
 
When I went to Kent State [1964-68], majors were limited to subjects that prepared students to enter a profession. Now this university, like others, offer ''party-school majors'' such as gay studies, women studies, pan-African studies, and integrated studies [for seniors who failed to choose and pursue a major]. When I was a supervisory attorney for a federal agency, I was astounded that members of my staff lacked basic writing skills [eg, use of the active voice, use of parallel construction] and had no idea of what I was explaining because they ''weren't English majors.'' One attorney, of sorts, had no clue about when the American Civil War occurred. [I did not hire them. I ''inherited'' them upon transfer.]

I believe student loans should be eliminated and replaced with outright grants to the best and brightest high school students who commit to pursuing careers in medicine, law, journalism, accounting, business administration, architecture, engineering, mathematics, sciences, social work, education, and other useful occupations. I know this view is elitist, but the student loan program is producing a nation of debtors with college degrees who cannot express themselves beyond a 140-character text or intelligently discuss any topic of history or science.

Many schools do maintain high academic standards; however, far too often, a school's reputation rests either on its athletic success or its easy curriculum qualifying it as a '''party school'' at the expense of wealthy parents or the taxpayers.

I invite your opinion and experiences.

at the expense of wealthy parents

Then we should educate people who aren't wealthy. They would appreciate the benefits of education.

And I think that people who spew such nonsense as "party schools" aren't actually educated. I think they are stupid. Sure, there may be a few who get the bare minimum and somehow manage to graduate with silliness, but anyone who earned an engineering degree or a degree in phycology or accounting or law or teaching or any number of degrees understands the difficulty and the cost. And they understand their limited options without any degree at all.

This is the problem with today's GOP. Somehow they have turned dumb into a "plus". And have convinced themselves that educated people are lazy and have no common sense. Even when their governors go off to other states looking for skilled and qualified workers. How do they explain that? They don't. To stupid to bother thinking it through. Hopefully, Republicans don't abolish the minimum wage just so the GOP base could be paid less. The sticker shock will be truly mind blowing. But don't worry, they will figure out a way to blame it on the Democrats. Like the Iraq war. "This is your fault. You should have stopped Bush".

 
A college degree carries as much weight today as a high school degree carried 30 years ago. College is now more of a business enterprise than anything to do with education.

I have been told that my college degree over qualified me for the job.
Riiight. You have much more opportunity with no degree at all. Go on believing that.
 
It's the height of arrogance to believe that you know which majors are useful and which aren't.

That said, what I do now and my original major have very little to do with each other. When you go to college right out of high school, you might not choose well.
 
I'm a contractor and they complain all the time that they can't get or keep young guys because they've all been taught that you must get a college degree to get ahead in life. Government backing loans makes this possible with escalating rates. Out of control rates, really, with universities laughing all the way to the bank.

I do have a degree but wish I had gone to a trade school instead and saved myself some trouble.

Have you noticed that the more government promises to give towards student loans the higher tuition at liberal re-education camps gets?

.
 
At one time the goal of colleges and universities was to teach gentlemen how to converse with other gentlemen. Latin and such courses were required, but we are now in the process of converting that type of education into a trade-school type of education. I think that new goal of a job began in earnest with the GI bill after WWII.
 
At one time the goal of colleges and universities was to teach gentlemen how to converse with other gentlemen. Latin and such courses were required, but we are now in the process of converting that type of education into a trade-school type of education. I think that new goal of a job began in earnest with the GI bill after WWII.

I have to agree ... I went to college with the GI Bill and got a Bachelors of Science in Psychology. I went about half-way through my Masters before I got bored. It looks nice hanging on the wall behind my desk ... But I don't do anything that slightly resembles that bullshit for a living.

The skills I learned in the military as far as decision making, teamwork, resource acquisition, logistics and intestinal fortitude ... Really helped me get a lot further than the college degree did.

It is kind of funny though ... Because one of the major reasons I joined the military was the fact I told my parents to take my college money and go to Europe ... And that I would earn my own way with the GI Bill.

.
 
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When I went to Kent State [1964-68], majors were limited to subjects that prepared students to enter a profession. Now this university, like others, offer ''party-school majors'' such as gay studies, women studies, pan-African studies, and integrated studies [for seniors who failed to choose and pursue a major]. When I was a supervisory attorney for a federal agency, I was astounded that members of my staff lacked basic writing skills [eg, use of the active voice, use of parallel construction] and had no idea of what I was explaining because they ''weren't English majors.'' One attorney, of sorts, had no clue about when the American Civil War occurred. [I did not hire them. I ''inherited'' them upon transfer.]

I believe student loans should be eliminated and replaced with outright grants to the best and brightest high school students who commit to pursuing careers in medicine, law, journalism, accounting, business administration, architecture, engineering, mathematics, sciences, social work, education, and other useful occupations. I know this view is elitist, but the student loan program is producing a nation of debtors with college degrees who cannot express themselves beyond a 140-character text or intelligently discuss any topic of history or science.

Many schools do maintain high academic standards; however, far too often, a school's reputation rests either on its athletic success or its easy curriculum qualifying it as a '''party school'' at the expense of wealthy parents or the taxpayers.

I invite your opinion and experiences.

College degrees at this point show who's a moron more than who's intelligent. Tells you who went into lifelong debt for a piece of paper vs those that knew better.
 
When I went to Kent State [1964-68], majors were limited to subjects that prepared students to enter a profession. Now this university, like others, offer ''party-school majors'' such as gay studies, women studies, pan-African studies, and integrated studies [for seniors who failed to choose and pursue a major]. When I was a supervisory attorney for a federal agency, I was astounded that members of my staff lacked basic writing skills [eg, use of the active voice, use of parallel construction] and had no idea of what I was explaining because they ''weren't English majors.'' One attorney, of sorts, had no clue about when the American Civil War occurred. [I did not hire them. I ''inherited'' them upon transfer.]

I believe student loans should be eliminated and replaced with outright grants to the best and brightest high school students who commit to pursuing careers in medicine, law, journalism, accounting, business administration, architecture, engineering, mathematics, sciences, social work, education, and other useful occupations. I know this view is elitist, but the student loan program is producing a nation of debtors with college degrees who cannot express themselves beyond a 140-character text or intelligently discuss any topic of history or science.

Many schools do maintain high academic standards; however, far too often, a school's reputation rests either on its athletic success or its easy curriculum qualifying it as a '''party school'' at the expense of wealthy parents or the taxpayers.

I invite your opinion and experiences.

College degrees at this point show who's a moron more than who's intelligent. Tells you who went into lifelong debt for a piece of paper vs those that knew better.
I didn't have any debt for my three.
 
When I went to Kent State [1964-68], majors were limited to subjects that prepared students to enter a profession. Now this university, like others, offer ''party-school majors'' such as gay studies, women studies, pan-African studies, and integrated studies [for seniors who failed to choose and pursue a major]. When I was a supervisory attorney for a federal agency, I was astounded that members of my staff lacked basic writing skills [eg, use of the active voice, use of parallel construction] and had no idea of what I was explaining because they ''weren't English majors.'' One attorney, of sorts, had no clue about when the American Civil War occurred. [I did not hire them. I ''inherited'' them upon transfer.]

I believe student loans should be eliminated and replaced with outright grants to the best and brightest high school students who commit to pursuing careers in medicine, law, journalism, accounting, business administration, architecture, engineering, mathematics, sciences, social work, education, and other useful occupations. I know this view is elitist, but the student loan program is producing a nation of debtors with college degrees who cannot express themselves beyond a 140-character text or intelligently discuss any topic of history or science.

Many schools do maintain high academic standards; however, far too often, a school's reputation rests either on its athletic success or its easy curriculum qualifying it as a '''party school'' at the expense of wealthy parents or the taxpayers.

I invite your opinion and experiences.

College degrees at this point show who's a moron more than who's intelligent. Tells you who went into lifelong debt for a piece of paper vs those that knew better.
I didn't have any debt for my three.

And you graduated when? Recently? Or decades ago?
 
When I went to Kent State [1964-68], majors were limited to subjects that prepared students to enter a profession. Now this university, like others, offer ''party-school majors'' such as gay studies, women studies, pan-African studies, and integrated studies [for seniors who failed to choose and pursue a major]. When I was a supervisory attorney for a federal agency, I was astounded that members of my staff lacked basic writing skills [eg, use of the active voice, use of parallel construction] and had no idea of what I was explaining because they ''weren't English majors.'' One attorney, of sorts, had no clue about when the American Civil War occurred. [I did not hire them. I ''inherited'' them upon transfer.]

I believe student loans should be eliminated and replaced with outright grants to the best and brightest high school students who commit to pursuing careers in medicine, law, journalism, accounting, business administration, architecture, engineering, mathematics, sciences, social work, education, and other useful occupations. I know this view is elitist, but the student loan program is producing a nation of debtors with college degrees who cannot express themselves beyond a 140-character text or intelligently discuss any topic of history or science.

Many schools do maintain high academic standards; however, far too often, a school's reputation rests either on its athletic success or its easy curriculum qualifying it as a '''party school'' at the expense of wealthy parents or the taxpayers.

I invite your opinion and experiences.

College degrees at this point show who's a moron more than who's intelligent. Tells you who went into lifelong debt for a piece of paper vs those that knew better.
I didn't have any debt for my three.

And you graduated when? Recently? Or decades ago?
1987, 1998, and 2013. My claim covers decades but is still the same.

My daughter starts college next year and I can stay the same for her.
 
Herbert's useless opinions should be taken only for what they are worth. ^
 
When President Kennedy started them, community colleges were free. They're as much as regular universities now. And because facts and truth wont vary, presumedly what you learn is much the same regardless of where you attend so the vast differences in price is really arbitrary and however much the school can get away with charging while still having max enrollment. Yet to get those facts and truths today one need only spend a few moments on a search engine. So really, all you're paying for at university is the myth that their degree is better than somoene else's degree and everyone's is better than simply having posession of facts and figures useful in some job.
 
I had/have zero debt for my 4-year degree (that took me 5 years to complete due to health issues). College isn't an option for everybody-that's VERY true. But I had the money (due to hard work), so how was me getting a degree "dumb"?
 

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