Was obama The Reason The LEFT Turned Into Full Blown Socialists?

[expatriate]

If the government can do that legally to one company, then they can do it to as many or all companies as they want, that is communism.
You also don't seem to recognize nor understand that there is many forms of socialism and the Liberals of this nation are for and implementing social democratic ideologies. This is a form of socialism.
Western Europe are socialists as well and Canada.

again. you do not have the faintest idea what the definition of communism is. And, as I told you, I forgot more about socialism last week after tequila killed a few brain cells than you have ever known about the topic in your entire life. People on the right can toss that word around and apply it to all sorts of different governmental systems all they like... that doesn't make their application of it accurate. Progressive liberalism has always sought to improve the lives of those less fortunate from within the capitalist economic framework. And they have done so quite successfully. But government has not sought to buy segment after segment of our economy in some socialism-driven spending spree... the government doesn't own the farms. It doesn't own the transportation companies that move those farm goods to market. It doesn't own the market where the consumer can buy those products and take them home to cook and eat. It doesn't own the restaurant businesses that process that product and sell it to folks who don't want to cook. It doesn't own the farm implement business. It doesn't own the auto industry (and a minority share in one corporation in that industry does not count as the government owning that industry...sorry). It doesn't own the steel industry or the shipbuilding industry or the paper industry or the computer industry or the construction industry. Government, by and large, is perfectly willing to allow the marketplace to drive the show, with only some sensible regulation. Neither major political party wants to have government own the means of production. THAT is what socialism is, and anything less than that isn't really socialism. sorry.

As far as socialist countries, here's a list:
11, Only 11 Socialist Countries in the World - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Canada is not on it, and only one country in Europe is on it: Sweden. sorry. you just blow smoke out your butt and try to call it educated information, and it ain't.

 

[peach174]

You are the one who refuses to see that government entltlements are a form of socialism.
New Youk post

Entitlements balloon under president—William C. Beach - NYPOST.com

The percentages I stated come from the government statics.Look them up yourself
Those percentages are from small business that have closed down( capitalism) and how much people are getting in government assistance (socialism).
All governments have a mixture of Capitalism and socialism.
one in five Americans — 67 million of us, all told — rely on federal aid in obtaining housing, food, income, health care or education.
that has growen by 8% under President Obama.

 

[expatriate]

You are the one who refuses to see that government entltlements are a form of socialism.
New Youk post

Entitlements balloon under president—William C. Beach - NYPOST.com

The percentages I stated come from the government statics.Look them up yourself
Those percentages are from small business that have closed down( capitalism) and how much people are getting in government assistance (socialism).
All governments have a mixture of Capitalism and socialism.
one in five Americans — 67 million of us, all told — rely on federal aid in obtaining housing, food, income, health care or education.
that has growen by 8% under President Obama.

listen... here's how boards work: you post a statistic, like you did, you post a link to it so we can all see where it came from. You have some link that shows that the government OWNS AND CONTROLS 45% of the economic activity in this country, post it, otherwise, it's just bullshit.

And federal aid is not synonymous with socialism.

AND... if you don't like the amount of federal tax dollars going to assistance programs, you should have worked harder and elected a republican. now... suck it. you lost. try again in four years...

oh, and take the opportunity to read the transcript from this last week's Meet the Press. Newt Gingrich said that if Hillary runs, the republicans simply cannot compete on that level... which means that we'll be looking at 16 straight years with a democrat in the white house and, by then, a 7-2 edge in the supreme court. such on that too.

 

[peach174]

Both Bush and Obama have a spending problem.
in 2001 the Fed Budget was 1.835 trillion
When Bush left it was 2.66 trillion.
Under Obama it is 3.8 trillion.
US Federal Budget 2013 - Spending Deficit Debt Pie Chart

 

[expatriate]

Both Bush and Obama have a spending problem.
in 2001 the Fed Budget was 1.835 trillion
When Bush left it was 2.66 trillion.
Under Obama it is 3.8 trillion.
US Federal Budget 2013 - Spending Deficit Debt Pie Chart

"spending problem" does not equate to socialism.

When are you going to provide the link that shows that the US government owns and controls 45% of the economy?

Better yet, when are you going to retract that ridiculous statement?

 

[peach174]

Both Bush and Obama have a spending problem.
in 2001 the Fed Budget was 1.835 trillion
When Bush left it was 2.66 trillion.
Under Obama it is 3.8 trillion.
US Federal Budget 2013 - Spending Deficit Debt Pie Chart

"spending problem" does not equate to socialism.

When are you going to provide the link that shows that the US government owns and controls 45% of the economy?

Better yet, when are you going to retract that ridiculous statement?

We have moved from a Republic to a Social Democracy and are now in transition to an Oligarchy.

skip to 8:20
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4r0VUybeXY]Types of Government, Explained - YouTube[/ame]

Social Democracy
Social democracy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Republic;
Limited government power that leaves the people alone and freedom to produce. The people keep the fruits of their labor.

We are doing the same thing that Rome did.
Moved from a Republic, to a Social Democracy and then to an Oligarchy,

Some contemporary authors have characterized the United States' current state of affairs as being oligarchic in nature. Simon Johnson wrote that "the reemergence of an American financial oligarchy is quite recent," a structure which he delineated as being the "most advanced" in the world. Jeffrey A. Winters argues that "oligarchy and democracy operate within a single system, and American politics is a daily display of their interplay." Bernie Sanders (I-VT) opined in a 2010 The Nation article that an "upper-crust of extremely wealthy families are hell-bent on destroying the democratic vision of a strong middle-class which has made the United States the envy of the world. In its place they are determined to create an oligarchy in which a small number of families control the economic and political life of our country."

United States political and finance industry leadership has recently been dominated by people associated with Harvard and Yale. All nine members of the current Supreme Court attended Harvard or Yale law schools. The last member appointed to the court who was not a former student at one of those two institutions was Sandra Day O'Connor, appointed by the newly elected President Ronald Reagan in 1981. Reagan was also the last United States President who did not attend either Harvard or Yale.

Both Men who just ran for President attended Harvard.
Bush Jr. went to Yale.
President Clinton went to Yale.

 

[expatriate]

still can't find that link that shows that the government owns and controls 45% of the economy?

I hope you keep trying instead of switching the subject and tap dancing like this.

 

[peach174]

You do not believe that public or state-based redistribution of economic resources is Social Democracy.
So why should I even try?

I am not switching the subject.
We are talking about socialism in this country and you can't accept the definition of Social Democracy.
You can't even see when it has been spelled out before you.

 

[jillian]

The left has pride left at all. They are now full blown socialists and communists. We also know that their messiah is a full blown spread the wealth around, tax the rich, redistribute the wealth, out of control big government spender, and they love him, dear leader, he gives them things for FREE. If the democrats of 30 years ago could see what kind of people the democrats of today have become, they'd roll over in their graves. I'm just waiting for the swastikas on arm bands at obama rallies. That's all that's missing.

cute.. .more nonsense from the wanna-be kkk'er...

 

[Toro]

still can't find that link that shows that the government owns and controls 45% of the economy?

I hope you keep trying instead of switching the subject and tap dancing like this.

Total government spending is ~40% of the economy, including all levels of government. Federal government spending is ~25%. Respectively, this is up from 33%-35% and 18%-20% historically.

 

[expatriate]

still can't find that link that shows that the government owns and controls 45% of the economy?

I hope you keep trying instead of switching the subject and tap dancing like this.

Total government spending is ~40% of the economy, including all levels of government. Federal government spending is ~25%. Respectively, this is up from 33%-35% and 18%-20% historically.

spending IN the economy is not ownership and control OF the economy. sorry.

 

[Toro]

still can't find that link that shows that the government owns and controls 45% of the economy?

I hope you keep trying instead of switching the subject and tap dancing like this.

Total government spending is ~40% of the economy, including all levels of government. Federal government spending is ~25%. Respectively, this is up from 33%-35% and 18%-20% historically.

spending IN the economy is not ownership and control OF the economy. sorry.

I would say it represents some control, but you're right, it's not ownership of the assets of the economy.

 

[Dot Com]

The left hate capitalism, they hate this country, bamie floated to the top of the shit pile in the outhouse and wa la.. you have the king of the socialist blame AMerica first club.

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to WillowTree For This Useful Post:
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"007" is a

 

[expatriate]

Total government spending is ~40% of the economy, including all levels of government. Federal government spending is ~25%. Respectively, this is up from 33%-35% and 18%-20% historically.

spending IN the economy is not ownership and control OF the economy. sorry.

I would say it represents some control, but you're right, it's not ownership of the assets of the economy.

thank you. and I agree that we can, and ought to have a rational discussion in this country about the limits of government involvement in the economy.

But when one side is screaming that the other side is nothing but socialists and "full blown communists", it is hard to even begin to have that sort of discussion.

In truth, neither side are socialists or fascists. We're all capitalists who disagree about the degree of government involvement and regulation that ought to accompany the market, but until we can quit the name calling and attempt to regain some measure of civility, we will never discuss how to mitigate that disagreement.

 

[expatriate]

You do not believe that public or state-based redistribution of economic resources is Social Democracy.
So why should I even try?

I am not switching the subject.
We are talking about socialism in this country and you can't accept the definition of Social Democracy.
You can't even see when it has been spelled out before you.

well... of course you are changing the subject. You started out calling things communism and socialism.... you then claimed to have facts and figures from our very government that showed that the United States government owned and controlled 45% of the United States economy and that that number had grown from the 39% that George W. Bush presided over. When asked to produce a link that would back up those absurd claims, you not only have failed to do so, but have, instead, posted a Youtube video which, I suppose, you want to claim is the holy grail of political thought, the font of wisdom about all things pertaining to American political discourse and the evolution of our current form and focus of government. AND... you post a definition of "social democracy" and suggest that if I not only don't "accept" the definition of "social democracy", but also agree that that is precisely the form of government we have now, "why should you even try"?

First...either post the link to this supposed US Government cache of data that shows that the US government owns and controls 45% of the US economy, or have the maturity and the integrity and the grace to admit that you were completely wrong about it.

OK... second... your youtube video is just that... a youtube video with one guy's opinion about what has happened to America over the past 250 years and his take on the historical precedent for it. It's a fucking OP-ED PIECE for crissakes! It is not some piece of peer reviewed, critical research or unbiased factual monograph. It's a youtube video. Now... while it is painfully obvious that any post-secondary education you may have received came from sources no more reputable than youtube videos and matchbook correspondence courses or maybe some bogus online college... or maybe just sitting back listening to the local conservative talk radio station from dawn to dusk... I don't know... but I DO know that I, for one, could care less for the youtube fellow's opinion and I don't agree with it.

Thirdly, the definition of "social democracy" in all cases, implies a certain, planned, unchangeable destination away from capitalist democracy and towards outright socialism. Therein we disagree. I know of NO democrat who seeks to move America from a capitalist society to one where the government owns and controls every aspect of the economy. NOT ONE. You yourself earlier admitted that such pie-in-the-sky thinking was reserved for the wacko left fringe and I agreed. Democrats and Republicans are, by and large, all capitalists. They seek to perpetuate the free market economy of the United States. None of the leaders of either party and precious few of the rank and file even mildly consider social democracy as a worthy path and that is just the facts. You can whine all you want about how much the government spends in our economy, but government expenditure does NOT equate to government control and it CERTAINLY doesn't equate to government OWNERSHIP.

So... join the debate about how we move the line around but quit calling those on the other side of the line socialists or communists, because if you can't stop the name calling silliness, rather than engage you intellectually in that debate, myself and others will, instead, just call you a half witted moron (which, apparently, you actually are).

Only YOU can change my perception of you... and I have certainly given you plenty of chances to do so and plenty of advice as to how to do it. the ball is in your court.

 

[peach174]

I could care less about what you think of me.
Especially from someone who has a difference of opinion as mine and uses personal name calling like silly, stupid, bogus education and talk radio. So who is doing the name calling?


The latest Gallup poll show that Dem's have a more positive view of Socialism at 53% compared toe Republican at 23%
Democrats, Republicans Diverge on Capitalism, Federal Gov't

Many believe that Entitlements and Regulations are a certain form of Socialism.
This is a difference of opinions between the left and the right.
I do agree that pure socialism and communism is not what we are moving toward.
I also agree that the majority of this Nation is for Capitalism.
President Obama's administration of taxing and regulation's is doing harm to our free Enterprise system.
This is defiantly moving us away from free Capitalism. Many call this Socialism.

 

[expatriate]

I could care less about what you think of me.
Especially from someone who has a difference of opinion as mine and uses personal name calling like silly, stupid, bogus education and talk radio. So who is doing the name calling?


The latest Gallup poll show that Dem's have a more positive view of Socialism at 53% compared toe Republican at 23%
Democrats, Republicans Diverge on Capitalism, Federal Gov't

Many believe that Entitlements and Regulations are a certain form of Socialism.
This is a difference of opinions between the left and the right.
I do agree that pure socialism and communism is not what we are moving toward.
I also agree that the majority of this Nation is for Capitalism.
President Obama's administration of taxing and regulation's is doing harm to our free Enterprise system.
This is defiantly moving us away from free Capitalism. Many call this Socialism.

many may call it socialism, but they are incorrect in their use of that term.

Socialism is government control and ownership of all the economic means of production and distribution. Calling anything less than that "socialism" is a misuse of the term. fact.