Want to Keep Pot Illegal? Time to Justify...

[editec]

I never understood why it's generally conservatives - who argue for fiscal responsibility and less gov't - who push for Marijuana prohibition.

I don't thing that's true of the people in power, but I agree that it is true in the rank and files of both parties.

the DEM party (hell liberalism generally) threw pot smokers under the bus a long long time ago.

Fucking cowards and hypocrites

 

[Katzndogz]

Pot smokers demand the greatest high, they don't care about purity. The goal is the biggest high. They leave out nicotine and put in bath salts or PCP.

Katz - Are you a pot smoker? Bath Salts and PCP are completely mind altering and render you incapable of going about your daily business; that's something most pot smokers are NOT after. That's why they choose marijuana. Like alcohol, it's a drug that is meant to be a gentle relaxer that (when done in moderation) does not render you useless.

Btw, I believe the quality of the high is directly related to the purity of the marijuana.

Obviously there are pot smokers that are after exactly that! Otherwise there wouldn't be these kinds of additives. If you think about it, and I really doubt you have. If we make pot legal, we will now have pot that's got additives, that will be illegal so the drug war such as it is, will rage on.

The issue isn't the legalization of pot, it's that so many people have a need to get high on a daily basis. It feels good. Anything that feels good has to be the right thing to do. The future will be something close to The Walking Dead. Not a single culture, ever, has survived a population dedicated to feeling good. The ones who have such dedication today are failures. We will just be one of them. Not because we legalized pot, but because so many people want to get high and want it more than anything else in the world.

 

[High_Gravity]

Feeling good is imporant.

 

[jwoodie]

As mentioned earlier, the paper used on all commercially available cigarettes is ringed with dried potassium nitrate to keep the chemically treated tobacco burning. The residue of burned potassium nitrate is carcinogenic. In addition to that, the tobacco used in all commercially available cigarettes is treated with a number of chemicals which enhance the effect of nicotine. Some of these chemicals are known carcinogens: What in tobacco smoke is harmful?

The papers used to roll marijuana "joints" need no chemicals because marijuana's natural oil keeps it burning at a comparatively lower temperature. And legally produced marijuana would need no chemical additive to enhance its natural effect. Compared to cigarettes marijuana is quite benign.

What makes you think that marijuana cigarettes would be manufactured any differently than tobacco cigarettes?

PS, I'm 76, male, I have an M.A. (along with some para-legal training), I'm retired, former civil service legal investigator. I was primarily interested in the last question posed to you because it's been my experience that seemingly determined opponents of marijuana use and legalization have been personally affected by drug addiction and are motivated more by fear than by knowledge and experience.

Oxymoron. Being personally affected provides greater knowledge and experience than quoting some other person's biased study.

 

[KevinWestern]

Pot smokers demand the greatest high, they don't care about purity. The goal is the biggest high. They leave out nicotine and put in bath salts or PCP.

Katz - Are you a pot smoker? Bath Salts and PCP are completely mind altering and render you incapable of going about your daily business; that's something most pot smokers are NOT after. That's why they choose marijuana. Like alcohol, it's a drug that is meant to be a gentle relaxer that (when done in moderation) does not render you useless.

Btw, I believe the quality of the high is directly related to the purity of the marijuana.

Obviously there are pot smokers that are after exactly that! Otherwise there wouldn't be these kinds of additives. If you think about it, and I really doubt you have. If we make pot legal, we will now have pot that's got additives, that will be illegal so the drug war such as it is, will rage on.

The issue isn't the legalization of pot, it's that so many people have a need to get high on a daily basis. It feels good. Anything that feels good has to be the right thing to do. The future will be something close to The Walking Dead. Not a single culture, ever, has survived a population dedicated to feeling good. The ones who have such dedication today are failures. We will just be one of them. Not because we legalized pot, but because so many people want to get high and want it more than anything else in the world.

What additives are you talking about exactly? I've heard of chemicals being added from time to time to 'enhance' extremely low quality marijuana, but I feel like legalization will change that (because high quality, pure marijuana will be more easily accessible). Again, do you smoke? It sounds like no..

Again, pot is just like alcohol; it's a relatively safe method for people to relax and relieve stress that has built up during the day (at work). Also, it can be smoked in moderation so that the user can still function just fine. Is that such a bad thing?

 

[MikeK]

Oxymoron. Being personally affected provides greater knowledge and experience than quoting some other person's biased study. [/B]

That seems logical until we consider the factor of predisposition. A Genetic Predisposition To Alcohol Dependence May Be Indicated By Sensitivity To Alcohol Odors

It is a well-established medical fact that some people are genitically predisposed to alcoholism. As yet I am not aware of any similar research with respect to other recreational substances, but the Behavioral community is fairly certain of the problem and simple observation tends to confirm it exists. But, simply stated, those who are similarly susceptible are a distinct minority, so because one individual is readily susceptible to becoming addicted to a given substance does not mean everyone else is similarly vulnerable.

While I haven't even seen any marijuana since the mid-1980s, both myself and my late wife enjoyed it on a regular basis throughout the 1960s and '70s. But when Ronald Reagan escalated Nixon's drug war madness in 1981, the increasing cost and fear of prosecution caused us to abruptly stop using it. While we both missed the enjoyment it afforded us, neither of us endured any of the withdrawal discomforts described to us by a few others who chose to stop -- one fellow in particular who probably to this day is still a compulsive user if he's still alive. Most of those we knew never complained of any discomfort from quitting.

So you simply cannot apply your rule of personal experience as having any bearing on how others might respond to a substance. Because the simple fact of the matter is marijuana is not an addictive drug -- except for an unfortunate minority of individuals who are best described as addictive personalities.

 

[KaliAndersson]

There is truth to what everyone says on both sides of the issue My Mother and me moved to Alaska when I was 8 back in the 1990s...
In 1975 Marijuana was made legal at least four ounces was.
then in 1990 it was made illegal I guess because of pressure to do so I don't think it was by voters.
Unless you had you could get a medical marijuana card, which my Mother jumped on, like a chicken on a Junebug.... claiming migraines. even tho' I don't think she ever had probalems with any kind of headaches (sp?)..She just wanted to be legal.

When it was made illegal Alaska high Native population began using other stuff like mouthwash or even rubbing alcohol to off on.(Fedal Alcohol sydrone is a real probalem in Alaska)Alcohol consumtion went way up,so in 2003 it was made legal again, at least 4 ounces was.
Then in 2006 Gov. Murkowski(sp?) tried to make it illegal again but Alaskas supreme court said it was against the rights of privacey butnow only one ounce is legal.
It was unpopular and is one reason that Sarah Palin won the governorship.
Now in 2014 the 'folks' will get to vote on it, and it will be legal for four ounces again.

Younger kids did start smoking more when it was legal and probaley one of the worst things that happened was it did draw a lot of low-lives into the state that the Alaskian dividend fund had to be shared with.....Probaley will be the same here in Colorado but is the price one pays for freedom.

Researching Marijuana was made illegal by Federal law in 1937...when Democrats were in totall control who love making more laws, made it a federal crime....Millions of American have suffered loss of lot of legal fees, and have like my Grandfather done hard time in Federal prison because of it.

Even when it was legal in Alaska my Mothers boyfriend told of being boarded on a fishing boat he was on by the federal coast guard, and seached for Marijuana and they found some in one guys coat...charges were made and the boat had to come back in which was a huge loss as they were fishing on shares(half for the boat, half for the crew).
Will DEA agents look for and bust taboo gardens in Colorado???.....I bet they do, they love that kind of stuff...their careers depend on it as Government gets boocoos of money from the folks that way..lawyers are dependent on it for their livelyhoods, and we had voted in lawyers who make laws for lawyers....yes?

 

[Katzndogz]

The truth is that marijuana isn't the problem. It really is that so many people can't get through the day without being high. They will drink mouthwash, huff paint thinner. What ever it takes. They can't be counseled or educated. They need to be removed. Treat substance abuse like what it really is, a communicable disease.

 

[MikeK]

There is truth to what everyone says on both sides of the issue My Mother and me moved to Alaska when I was 8 back in the 1990s...
In 1975 Marijuana was made legal at least four ounces was.
then in 1990 it was made illegal I guess because of pressure to do so I don't think it was by voters.
Unless you had you could get a medical marijuana card, which my Mother jumped on, like a chicken on a Junebug.... claiming migraines. even tho' I don't think she ever had probalems with any kind of headaches (sp?)..She just wanted to be legal.

When it was made illegal Alaska high Native population began using other stuff like mouthwash or even rubbing alcohol to off on.(Fedal Alcohol sydrone is a real probalem in Alaska)Alcohol consumtion went way up,so in 2003 it was made legal again, at least 4 ounces was.
Then in 2006 Gov. Murkowski(sp?) tried to make it illegal again but Alaskas supreme court said it was against the rights of privacey butnow only one ounce is legal.
It was unpopular and is one reason that Sarah Palin won the governorship.
Now in 2014 the 'folks' will get to vote on it, and it will be legal for four ounces again.

Younger kids did start smoking more when it was legal and probaley one of the worst things that happened was it did draw a lot of low-lives into the state that the Alaskian dividend fund had to be shared with.....Probaley will be the same here in Colorado but is the price one pays for freedom.

Researching Marijuana was made illegal by Federal law in 1937...when Democrats were in totall control who love making more laws, made it a federal crime....Millions of American have suffered loss of lot of legal fees, and have like my Grandfather done hard time in Federal prison because of it.

Even when it was legal in Alaska my Mothers boyfriend told of being boarded on a fishing boat he was on by the federal coast guard, and seached for Marijuana and they found some in one guys coat...charges were made and the boat had to come back in which was a huge loss as they were fishing on shares(half for the boat, half for the crew).
Will DEA agents look for and bust taboo gardens in Colorado???.....I bet they do, they love that kind of stuff...their careers depend on it as Government gets boocoos of money from the folks that way..lawyers are dependent on it for their livelyhoods, and we had voted in lawyers who make laws for lawyers....yes?

Looks to me like you know what you're talking about, Kali.

 

[KaliAndersson]

There is truth to what everyone says on both sides of the issue My Mother and me moved to Alaska when I was 8 back in the 1990s...
In 1975 Marijuana was made legal at least four ounces was.
then in 1990 it was made illegal I guess because of pressure to do so I don't think it was by voters.
Unless you had you could get a medical marijuana card, which my Mother jumped on, like a chicken on a Junebug.... claiming migraines. even tho' I don't think she ever had probalems with any kind of headaches (sp?)..She just wanted to be legal.

When it was made illegal Alaska high Native population began using other stuff like mouthwash or even rubbing alcohol to off on.(Fedal Alcohol sydrone is a real probalem in Alaska)Alcohol consumtion went way up,so in 2003 it was made legal again, at least 4 ounces was.
Then in 2006 Gov. Murkowski(sp?) tried to make it illegal again but Alaskas supreme court said it was against the rights of privacey butnow only one ounce is legal.
It was unpopular and is one reason that Sarah Palin won the governorship.
Now in 2014 the 'folks' will get to vote on it, and it will be legal for four ounces again.

Younger kids did start smoking more when it was legal and probaley one of the worst things that happened was it did draw a lot of low-lives into the state that the Alaskian dividend fund had to be shared with.....Probaley will be the same here in Colorado but is the price one pays for freedom.

Researching Marijuana was made illegal by Federal law in 1937...when Democrats were in totall control who love making more laws, made it a federal crime....Millions of American have suffered loss of lot of legal fees, and have like my Grandfather done hard time in Federal prison because of it.

Even when it was legal in Alaska my Mothers boyfriend told of being boarded on a fishing boat he was on by the federal coast guard, and seached for Marijuana and they found some in one guys coat...charges were made and the boat had to come back in which was a huge loss as they were fishing on shares(half for the boat, half for the crew).
Will DEA agents look for and bust taboo gardens in Colorado???.....I bet they do, they love that kind of stuff...their careers depend on it as Government gets boocoos of money from the folks that way..lawyers are dependent on it for their livelyhoods, and we had voted in lawyers who make laws for lawyers....yes?

Looks to me like you know what you're talking about, Kali.

Thanks, I might know more than some but not nearly as much as many do here that have grown...I know a little more than I did the other day, a neighbor showed me how to clone Sunday afternoon.

I have never grown marijuana, nor do I intend to, but it does pay to know things...
I sort of want to, now that it is legal...but my husband (who is working right now helping his Uncle build in North Dakota)who keeps us on the straight and narrow says," no way."......Probaley just as well.

I worked with one guy who one 25 years old at the resturant , who could talk about nothing else but Marijuana, he was so obcessed with it....That are people like that...Most just use it to relax in the evening like my Mother often would...

Sometimes it even helps people...My husbands Uncle joined the Army way back in the 1960s, to kill communis, even tho' he had a athelic schoolarship to go to colleget...He volunteered for hardcore night recon. stuff in Viet Nam and spent 2 1/2 years there before they sent him home because he started loving his job to much.

After coming home tho' he started having trouble sleeping and started taking stuff that was not good for him...when Ambian came out about 20 years ago he started taking that and took more and more tillo he was using it just to stay 'normal'.He got to where he took 7 day day till one day two years ago he had a seizure...They rushed him to the VA hospitol in Albuquerque, New Mexico and fromn there sent him to the VA in San Diego,California where he was 'dried out' finally treated for PTSD.....Now when he can't sleep he takes Marijuana in Cannabutter in some form and sleeps good...When he works construction tho' he doesn't have the probalem as he gets tried working long long hours (he is in very good shape for gbeing in his 60s)..In his case Marijuana is a god given medicine.

 

[jwoodie]

Marijuana cigarettes would never get FDA approval, which is why we are subjected to all these gimmicky arguments.

 

[KevinWestern]

Marijuana cigarettes would never get FDA approval, which is why we are subjected to all these gimmicky arguments.

Why? They seem to have no problem approving of Monsanto's GMOs that have been shown to give rats massive tumors.

With that as the precedent, Marijuana - which is completely natural - wouldn't have too big of an issue, given that the FDA always is consistent with their standards.

.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Sometimes it even helps people...My husbands Uncle joined the Army way back in the 1960s, to kill communis, even tho' he had a athelic schoolarship to go to colleget...He volunteered for hardcore night recon. stuff in Viet Nam and spent 2 1/2 years there before they sent him home because he started loving his job to much.

After coming home tho' he started having trouble sleeping and started taking stuff that was not good for him...when Ambian came out about 20 years ago he started taking that and took more and more tillo he was using it just to stay 'normal'.He got to where he took 7 day day till one day two years ago he had a seizure...They rushed him to the VA hospitol in Albuquerque, New Mexico and fromn there sent him to the VA in San Diego,California where he was 'dried out' finally treated for PTSD.....Now when he can't sleep he takes Marijuana in Cannabutter in some form and sleeps good...When he works construction tho' he doesn't have the probalem as he gets tried working long long hours (he is in very good shape for gbeing in his 60s)..In his case Marijuana is a god given medicine.

There is a very simple explanation for that: Marijuana happens to be the best and most effective tranquilizer available. Which is why the major pharmaceutical companies give so much financial support to NIDA and other anti-marijuana propaganda organizations.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear KW: Would you be satisfied with DE-Criminalizing marijuana while still holding people responsible for any addictions related to health problems nonusers don't want to pay for?

Would you support free and equal access to "spiritual healing" as a more natural/nonaddictive alternative to medical marijuana with even more benefits including
no side effects, and ability to cure causes of diseases (not just placate symptoms or reduce pain) ranging from cancer and diabetes to mental and even criminal illness (including addiction itself which of course marijuana does not cure).

Where spiritual healing can reduce costs of crime and health care costs, even more so than legalizing marijuana, would you support that? Or does it not fit your political agenda?

It's time the prohibitionists justify why marijuana should remain illegal.

Why is it on them? It's on them because prohibition means some very negative and real consequences that we as a society have to all deal with, namely:

1.) Policing marijuana costs us billions in taxpayer dollars every year (ie police work, courts, prison overhead, feeding prisoners, ect). This money comes out of my paycheck.
2.) Policing marijuana drains on vital resources (cops could be stopping murders, violent crimes, courts could be freed up).
3.) Marijuana prohibition puts millions of non violent people who pose no threat to anyone behind bars every year. This breaks up families, ruins career opportunities.
4.) Marijuana prohibition gives power to the drug cartels and their violent activities. If pot were legal, much of their revenue stream (to buy guns, ect) would be cut.
5.) Marijuana prohibition means that all the money that could be made from private legal enterprise in the US instead remain mostly in Mexico in the hands of criminals (tax free).

Now, I'm open for a discussion (of course), but I think it needs to start with providing the benefits of Marijuana prohibition (specifically), and how those benefits outweigh all of those combined.

These things are currently impacting us each and every day, so I think it's a very important discussion.

If the US was a company, is prohibition worth the cost? I say NO WAY.

Thanks everyone...

P.S. I agree with decriminalizing things related to addictions or mental/criminal illness that are better treated medically as diseases. I believe we should have a third level of laws besides just criminal and civil, and put these other contested issues under "health and safety" ordinances that can be decided and managed democratically by district, instead of trying to impose a global policy across the board. these merit further study before making public policy, so that people make decisions by informed choice not just religion or politics.

I believe spiritual healing can be medically proven as a more natural and cost-effective process that will revolutionize our criminal justice, mental health and medical systems.
So I support much of the arguments you make, but just take it further to resolve the root problems and not just manipulate the symptoms which I agree wastes public resources we could be investing in prevention, correction and treatment of real causes of abuse and crime.

 

[KevinWestern]

Dear KW: Would you be satisfied with DE-Criminalizing marijuana while still holding people responsible for any addictions related to health problems nonusers don't want to pay for?

Would you support free and equal access to "spiritual healing" as a more natural/nonaddictive alternative to medical marijuana with even more benefits including
no side effects, and ability to cure causes of diseases (not just placate symptoms or reduce pain) ranging from cancer and diabetes to mental and even criminal illness (including addiction itself which of course marijuana does not cure).

Where spiritual healing can reduce costs of crime and health care costs, even more so than legalizing marijuana, would you support that? Or does it not fit your political agenda?

P.S. I agree with decriminalizing things related to addictions or mental/criminal illness that are better treated medically as diseases. I believe we should have a third level of laws besides just criminal and civil, and put these other contested issues under "health and safety" ordinances that can be decided and managed democratically by district, instead of trying to impose a global policy across the board. these merit further study before making public policy, so that people make decisions by informed choice not just religion or politics.

I believe spiritual healing can be medically proven as a more natural and cost-effective process that will revolutionize our criminal justice, mental health and medical systems.
So I support much of the arguments you make, but just take it further to resolve the root problems and not just manipulate the symptoms which I agree wastes public resources we could be investing in prevention, correction and treatment of real causes of abuse and crime.

Emily,

My argument is this: what we gain from marijuana prohibition is greatly, GREATLY outweighed by the costs we pay for marijuana prohibition. We put millions in jail, we give untold power to the cartels, and we waste untold resources (courts, police) patroling and prohibiting marijuana. For a drug that you can’t overdose on, and does not harm people in a meaningful or significant way in the long term, it simply DOES NOT make sense.

Would you spend $1 million on a piece of gum? No! It's not worth it. Yes, you might get a little bit of benefit (the gum), but you just lost $1 million that could have been spent getting you much more benefit elsewhere (like buying a mansion). This is the same as saying should we spend $1 million policing marijuana? No! It's not worth it. We could have spent that $1 million in education, or putting rapists in prison...

I’m NOT arguing for legalization because of the fact that marijuana is beneficial medically, or at all. Something doesn’t have to be beneficial to be legal (if this was the case, we would not have Jersey Shore on TV). But if it's not that dangerous, why the heck should we dedicate all these resources to restricting it?

Too, you mention paying for addiction. It think it's fair to say that any costs to society that are incurred from incremental addictions (because you have to take into account people are already smoking this en MASS), ect will be drawfed (to a very large degree) by the costs we save from all the prison bills (millions that we support 24/7, every day), police costs, court costs, ect. Not to mention our country would now be a producer of marijuana, and we’d open way to an entirely new industry that will generate real value in the US for law abiding citizens (vs just value for the violent criminals in mexico). If we’re talking costs here, I don’t think the prohibitionists have an argument.


Finally, I’m all for spiritual healing, but I don’t know why the gov’t should be forced to provide free and equal access? Isn’t it already free? All you have to do is go on the internet and you can find a wealth of information. Not sure where you're going on this..


.

 

[jwoodie]

[...]

Sometimes it even helps people...My husbands Uncle joined the Army way back in the 1960s, to kill communis, even tho' he had a athelic schoolarship to go to colleget...He volunteered for hardcore night recon. stuff in Viet Nam and spent 2 1/2 years there before they sent him home because he started loving his job to much.

After coming home tho' he started having trouble sleeping and started taking stuff that was not good for him...when Ambian came out about 20 years ago he started taking that and took more and more tillo he was using it just to stay 'normal'.He got to where he took 7 day day till one day two years ago he had a seizure...They rushed him to the VA hospitol in Albuquerque, New Mexico and fromn there sent him to the VA in San Diego,California where he was 'dried out' finally treated for PTSD.....Now when he can't sleep he takes Marijuana in Cannabutter in some form and sleeps good...When he works construction tho' he doesn't have the probalem as he gets tried working long long hours (he is in very good shape for gbeing in his 60s)..In his case Marijuana is a god given medicine.

There is a very simple explanation for that: Marijuana happens to be the best and most effective tranquilizer available. Which is why the major pharmaceutical companies give so much financial support to NIDA and other anti-marijuana propaganda organizations.

So why shouldn't marijuana be prescribed like other tranquilizers?

 

[Spoonman]

It's time the prohibitionists justify why marijuana should remain illegal.

Why is it on them? It's on them because prohibition means some very negative and real consequences that we as a society have to all deal with, namely:

1.) Policing marijuana costs us billions in taxpayer dollars every year (ie police work, courts, prison overhead, feeding prisoners, ect). This money comes out of my paycheck.
2.) Policing marijuana drains on vital resources (cops could be stopping murders, violent crimes, courts could be freed up).
3.) Marijuana prohibition puts millions of non violent people who pose no threat to anyone behind bars every year. This breaks up families, ruins career opportunities.
4.) Marijuana prohibition gives power to the drug cartels and their violent activities. If pot were legal, much of their revenue stream (to buy guns, ect) would be cut.
5.) Marijuana prohibition means that all the money that could be made from private legal enterprise in the US instead remain mostly in Mexico in the hands of criminals (tax free).

Now, I'm open for a discussion (of course), but I think it needs to start with providing the benefits of Marijuana prohibition (specifically), and how those benefits outweigh all of those combined.

These things are currently impacting us each and every day, so I think it's a very important discussion.

If the US was a company, is prohibition worth the cost? I say NO WAY.

Thanks everyone...

those all sound like very good arguments why we should put an end to this ridiculous assault weapons ban talk too

 

[KevinWestern]

It's time the prohibitionists justify why marijuana should remain illegal.

Why is it on them? It's on them because prohibition means some very negative and real consequences that we as a society have to all deal with, namely:

1.) Policing marijuana costs us billions in taxpayer dollars every year (ie police work, courts, prison overhead, feeding prisoners, ect). This money comes out of my paycheck.
2.) Policing marijuana drains on vital resources (cops could be stopping murders, violent crimes, courts could be freed up).
3.) Marijuana prohibition puts millions of non violent people who pose no threat to anyone behind bars every year. This breaks up families, ruins career opportunities.
4.) Marijuana prohibition gives power to the drug cartels and their violent activities. If pot were legal, much of their revenue stream (to buy guns, ect) would be cut.
5.) Marijuana prohibition means that all the money that could be made from private legal enterprise in the US instead remain mostly in Mexico in the hands of criminals (tax free).

Now, I'm open for a discussion (of course), but I think it needs to start with providing the benefits of Marijuana prohibition (specifically), and how those benefits outweigh all of those combined.

These things are currently impacting us each and every day, so I think it's a very important discussion.

If the US was a company, is prohibition worth the cost? I say NO WAY.

Thanks everyone...

those all sound like very good arguments why we should put an end to this ridiculous assault weapons ban talk too

Not sure how the two are related, but agree that the assault weapons ban talk is both an aversion from the real issues (if you want to talk gun violence, you obviously should probably talk hand guns first), and an infringement on second amendment rights.

.

 

[PaulS1950]

The government has to show how a natural product is harmful to disallow its use. The people are otherwise free to use it. This was never done. It was made illegal because of induced hysteria paid for by the government.

 

[Katzndogz]

My last objection to legal pot has just been taken away. The legal pot industty has been taken over by Russian and Armenian organised crime. Marijuana is sold by weight so the pot is being treated with lead dust. I'm so glad I found this out. Now I have no complaints.