"Wall St. Meltdown","criminal charges"..WHY??

healthmyths

Platinum Member
Sep 19, 2011
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I am NOT an expert in Wall Street, mortgages, much less "criminal charges for Wall St. meltdown fraud"!
I am an expert in Medicare though but this NOT the point of the thread.

For YOU EXPERTS in "Wall St.", Mortgages, and (what ?) "meltdown".. please correct the following dots....

I saw the "60 Minutes" piece about two high-ranking financial whistleblowers say they tried to warn their superiors about defective and even fraudulent mortgages

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7390540n#ixzz1jX2lO1LF


But even after that, I don't understand the "fraud" part.

A) Banks forced by Acorn among other protesters in 1995 started granting loans to
unqualified people. Knowing that if they didn't the banks would be picketed and the
biased MSM write totally inaccurate stories..

in the Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank, 1994 suit against redlining.
Most significant of all, ACORN was the driving force behind a 1995 regulatory revision pushed through by the Clinton Administration that greatly expanded the CRA (Community Reinvestment Act) and laid the groundwork for the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac borne financial crisis we now confront.
Barack Obama was the attorney representing ACORN in this effort. With this new authority, ACORN used its subsidiary, ACORN Housing, to promote subprime loans more aggressively.
-------------------------
In 1999, under pressure from the Clinton administration, Fannie Mae, the nation's largest home mortgage underwriter, relaxed credit requirements on the loans it would purchase from other banks and lenders, hoping that easing these restrictions would result in increased loan availability for minority and low-income buyers.
------------------------------------
Rham Emmanuel, Former OBAMA CHIEF OF STAFF and Jamie Gorelick were employees and directors of Fannie and freddie took between the two took out over $20 million. Gorelick was appointed Vice Chairman of Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae) from 1997 to 2003. She served alongside former Clinton Administration official Franklin Raines During that period, Fannie Mae developed a $10 billion accounting scandal. Gorelick took home $26.46 million in the period from 1998 to 2002 (she left in that year, so she wasn’t there for the entire period under investigation).
Of that figure, nearly $15 million came from EPS bonuses.
and while serving as Deputy Attorney General under Bill Clinton, Gorelick spoke in favor of banning the use of strong encryption and called for a key escrow system to allow the Federal government access to encrypted communication.

Top 3 politicians receiving campaign funds from Fannie/Freddie...
Dodd, Christopher S D-CT $133,900
Kerry, JohnS D-MA $111,000
Obama, Barack S D-IL $105,849

B) Banks made the loans BUT under pressure from FDIC that considered rightfully so
the toxicity "securitized" and resold WITH Fannie Freddie FEDERAL Guarantee..
Oct. 23,2008 (Bloomberg) --
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have an ``effective'' federal guarantee, not the
"full faith and credit'' of the U.S. government, Federal Housing Finance Agency
Director James Lockhart said after the hearing.
That does give them effectively a guarantee of the U.S. government.''
Lockhart's Fannie, Freddie Guarantee Remarks Stir Up Confusion - Bloomberg

C) So investors bought these toxic securities mortgages BACKED by Fannie/Freddie that
in turn was GUARANTEED by the Federal Govt.

WHERE is the fraud when investors knowingly bought "bad" mortgages knowing the Federal Govt. would lend them the money?
* House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized
the President's warning saying:
"these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of
financial crisis .The more people exaggerate these problems, the more
pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of
affordable housing."
..
(Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie
Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

* Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman
Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and called on
him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. (
Eric Dash,
"Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected,
As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)


"Fraud"???
 
Was there a massive fraud? Yes. Why no criminal charges? Because the guys who were involved are also running the country - and therefore it's legal system. Simple.
 
Many new that these were going to fail and bet against them, while selling them. That's fraud. But, your post does not even begin to capture the issue of the mortgage crisis. There was an expansion of credit with artificially low rates. Which signaled to lenders that people who might not otherwise qualify, could do so with nothing down on variable rate mortgages. This policy of "everyone should have the chance to own a home", was a Bush doctrine. If you want to blame someone, blame the central banksters. The fun starts there.
 
Many new that these were going to fail and bet against them, while selling them. That's fraud. But, your post does not even begin to capture the issue of the mortgage crisis. There was an expansion of credit with artificially low rates. Which signaled to lenders that people who might not otherwise qualify, could do so with nothing down on variable rate mortgages. This policy of "everyone should have the chance to own a home", was a Bush doctrine. If you want to blame someone, blame the central banksters. The fun starts there.

I agree with Bush. Everyone should have the CHANCE to own a home. That does not mean that they can own one... just that they should have the opportunity to work hard and succeed and thus be able to buy one - that they can afford.

That this theory became a 'right to your own home' was a substantial part of the problem. It's not a right.
 
No disagreement there. Lenders were giddy to make the returns and lent to folks who had no business owning the home they were signing on for. $30k a year, no money down on a variable rate mortgage for a $250,000 home?

Where were the buyer's brains through this??
The moral hazard was created at the very top, and everyone else played right along.
 
Was there a massive fraud? Yes. Why no criminal charges? Because the guys who were involved are also running the country - and therefore it's legal system. Simple.

OH no you don't! Being an expert on massive fraud.. YOU need to tell explain exactly what that means!

I mean anyone can accuse why Obama of "massive fraud" !

Exactly where was the fraud?
Exactly what do you as an expert with the answers mean by "massive"?

You answered quickly and as if an expert in mortgages,wall street and fraud so be more specific!
 
Many new that these were going to fail and bet against them, while selling them. That's fraud. But, your post does not even begin to capture the issue of the mortgage crisis. There was an expansion of credit with artificially low rates. Which signaled to lenders that people who might not otherwise qualify, could do so with nothing down on variable rate mortgages. This policy of "everyone should have the chance to own a home", was a Bush doctrine. If you want to blame someone, blame the central banksters. The fun starts there.

Many "new"
Oct. 23,2008 (Bloomberg) --
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have an ``effective'' federal guarantee, not the
"full faith and credit'' of the U.S. government, Federal Housing Finance Agency
Director James Lockhart said after the hearing.
That does give them effectively a guarantee of the U.S. government.''
Lockhart's Fannie, Freddie Guarantee Remarks Stir Up Confusion - Bloomberg

That means how can there be fraud if the govt. is willing to back the toxic loans?

And the Govt did! What was TARP???
 
Was there a massive fraud? Yes. Why no criminal charges? Because the guys who were involved are also running the country - and therefore it's legal system. Simple.

OH no you don't! Being an expert on massive fraud.. YOU need to tell explain exactly what that means!

I mean anyone can accuse why Obama of "massive fraud" !

Exactly where was the fraud?
Exactly what do you as an expert with the answers mean by "massive"?

You answered quickly and as if an expert in mortgages,wall street and fraud so be more specific!

Where did I say I was an 'expert on massive fraud'? I don't 'need' to explain jack shit.... I might.... If I feel so inclined.... but hysterical hyperbole will not encourage me to do so.
 
Was there a massive fraud? Yes. Why no criminal charges? Because the guys who were involved are also running the country - and therefore it's legal system. Simple.

OH no you don't! Being an expert on massive fraud.. YOU need to tell explain exactly what that means!

I mean anyone can accuse why Obama of "massive fraud" !

Exactly where was the fraud?
Exactly what do you as an expert with the answers mean by "massive"?

You answered quickly and as if an expert in mortgages,wall street and fraud so be more specific!

Where did I say I was an 'expert on massive fraud'? I don't 'need' to explain jack shit.... I might.... If I feel so inclined.... but hysterical hyperbole will not encourage me to do so.

HEY you were the one that hyperbolically used the term "massive fraud"!
That means YOU are an expert in this cause YOU evidently have more knowledge then the rest of us non-experts!

I'm just a curious person wanting to know how the layperson can know so much about the issue much less PROVE the statement for example "Massive fraud"!
I at least offered my links to substantiating my thread.. i.e.
Acorn/et.al. protesting Citibank.. Clinton et.al. CRA.. Dodd/et.al. saying no problem!

WHERE IS YOUR SUBSTANTIATION?
 
See this is one of the reasons we have such a mess today!
People with a little information passed to them by BIASED MSM form opinions which influence congress to pass laws that DO MORE HARM!!!

CRA perfect example of "unintended consequences"!
Then you have banks forced to clean up i.e. FDIC.. toxic loans!
Banks complain what can they do? Fannie/Freddie BACKED by the govt GUARANTEE the buyers!
TARP!
 
OH no you don't! Being an expert on massive fraud.. YOU need to tell explain exactly what that means!

I mean anyone can accuse why Obama of "massive fraud" !

Exactly where was the fraud?
Exactly what do you as an expert with the answers mean by "massive"?

You answered quickly and as if an expert in mortgages,wall street and fraud so be more specific!

Where did I say I was an 'expert on massive fraud'? I don't 'need' to explain jack shit.... I might.... If I feel so inclined.... but hysterical hyperbole will not encourage me to do so.

HEY you were the one that hyperbolically used the term "massive fraud"!
That means YOU are an expert in this cause YOU evidently have more knowledge then the rest of us non-experts!

I'm just a curious person wanting to know how the layperson can know so much about the issue much less PROVE the statement for example "Massive fraud"!
I at least offered my links to substantiating my thread.. i.e.
Acorn/et.al. protesting Citibank.. Clinton et.al. CRA.. Dodd/et.al. saying no problem!

WHERE IS YOUR SUBSTANTIATION?

There was a 'massive fraud', it is an accurate assessment, not 'hyperbole'. If it was 'hyperbole' I would have included an ! or two. I didn't. I have researched the mortgage fiasco and have opinions, based on factually accurate information.

I would claim to be an 'expert' if I was an 'expert'. I am not. I have a decent understanding of the issues, but an 'expert' would have an indepth knowledge - which I do not, and have not claimed.

You are showing signs of hysteria and hyperbole... resorting to the use of caps is always a 'tell'.
 
No disagreement there. Lenders were giddy to make the returns and lent to folks who had no business owning the home they were signing on for. $30k a year, no money down on a variable rate mortgage for a $250,000 home?

Where were the buyer's brains through this??
The moral hazard was created at the very top, and everyone else played right along.

YOU forgot another part of the equation in "Lenders were giddy..."
FEDERAL Government guarantees!
 
See this is one of the reasons we have such a mess today!
People with a little information passed to them by BIASED MSM form opinions which influence congress to pass laws that DO MORE HARM!!!

CRA perfect example of "unintended consequences"!
Then you have banks forced to clean up i.e. FDIC.. toxic loans!
Banks complain what can they do? Fannie/Freddie BACKED by the govt GUARANTEE the buyers!
TARP!

The information that I base my opinion on was not provided by any media - left or right. It is based mainly on economists, and academic research.

I have already done a post - a very long one (which I am not in the habit of doing) - outlining (with links to academic research and the views of left wing, right wing and unpartisan international economists)... I am not in the habit of repeating myself. If you want to find that - go ahead and do a search for it. But it sums up pretty well exactly who did what (including the impact of the CRA), when, why, and the consequences.
 
Not only guarantees, but creation of the scheme to bundle and sell mortgages in a package containing both good and bad loans. This was the carrot leading the financial ass.
 
Not only guarantees, but creation of the scheme to bundle and sell mortgages in a package containing both good and bad loans. This was the carrot leading the financial ass.

I have said, more than once, that what happened was what economists called a 'perfect storm'... meaning, that there were several unconnected 'strings' of issues.... each one open to massive problems. Some of those strings were international issues - such as the massive long term economic imbalance between countries. Some, such as the US, were consuming too much and producing too little. Others, such as China, were consuming too little and producing too much. That imbalance was the fault line.

OK. So, imagine if you will: a global economic 'fault line' - everyone (economists, governments etc) knows it is there but, apart from the odd local tremor... it's pretty stable.

Then, you have (not just in the US but ours was by far the largest).... a financial 'problem'. That problem - let's take the mortgage market since that's what this thread is about - would have been a local tremor (confined to the US.... and probably would have been a blip - not a long term clusterfuck).... except.... because of the 'fault line', that tremor shook and kept shaking... and it caused other fault lines to appear... and then a few more... and hey presto.... a perfect financial storm that spread around the world.

It is fine and dandy to take one of those little fault lines and make it into the San Adreas fault but, if it had not been for that global imbalance, none of it would have been as bad as it has been.

Oh, and you then need to factor in some of the decisions made within the banking sector - such as domestic/retail banks getting into the investment banking market... and selling toxic debt to each other... and a whole bunch of non political bullshit.... and the international regulations being bullshit because countries wanted the money that providing a 'home' for banks provides.... and a bunch of other crap.... the whole clusterfuck was a global catastophe waiting to happen. Economists talked about it for years.
 
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See this is one of the reasons we have such a mess today!
People with a little information passed to them by BIASED MSM form opinions which influence congress to pass laws that DO MORE HARM!!!

CRA perfect example of "unintended consequences"!
Then you have banks forced to clean up i.e. FDIC.. toxic loans!
Banks complain what can they do? Fannie/Freddie BACKED by the govt GUARANTEE the buyers!
TARP!

Citing biases and mis-information of others then referencing the CRA as a cause for the Financial Crisis is hilariously ironic.
 
See this is one of the reasons we have such a mess today!
People with a little information passed to them by BIASED MSM form opinions which influence congress to pass laws that DO MORE HARM!!!

CRA perfect example of "unintended consequences"!
Then you have banks forced to clean up i.e. FDIC.. toxic loans!
Banks complain what can they do? Fannie/Freddie BACKED by the govt GUARANTEE the buyers!
TARP!

Citing biases and mis-information of others then referencing the CRA as a cause for the Financial Crisis is hilariously ironic.

ONCE again hyperbole, jumping to conclusions seem to be what ignorant people do!
I simply pointed out that specifically the Democrat biased MSM defended what they thought was the "populist" position.. i.e. having the "poor" downtrodden, be able to buy homes that they would never pay for!
I mean look who at who were the champions.. Obama/Clinton/Dodd/Frank.. a list of pandering poverty pimps!
And then when the banks tried to comply with FDIC in cleaning up toxic loans their recourse was Fannie/Freddie.. again with complicity from Obama/Dodd/Kerry top 3 receivers from Fannie/Freddie .. these GSEs GUARANTEED the toxic portfolios!

But you poverty pimps still have to defend the "poor" the "unqualified" of who many were flippers i.e. bought two,three properties KNOWING they were going to default and cleaned up .. probably donating some of the profits to the Democrats via ACORN!

This was the scheme du jour by Democrat poverty pimps!
1) protests with MSM assistance banks that caved to the bad loans.
2) Bad /unqualified borrowers buy 2,3, multiply properties and with plunder
3) donate to Acorn which gets more unqualified undocumented people register as Dems!
4) More Dem voters/bogus bad borrowers complete the cycle!

And all the while honest, people making their mortgage payments, paying their taxes are supporting this GRIFT and GRAFT!
Unbeknownst to these honest people their local/national MSM supporting Democrats NEVER connect the dots..
Acorn/Obama/protestors ..>>.
... protests banks till banks lend to unqualified borrowers...>>
...>>>borrowers donate to Acorn that registers more Democrats...>>
...>>>Democrats -Frank/Dodd/Clinton/Kerry/Obama say NOTHING wrong with Fannie...>>
..>>.Fannie/Freddie guarantee with Federal funds toxic loans..>>
...who pays??? >>>

Honest hard working mortgage paying tax paying Americans who blame Wall Street/ and big bad banks ... why... Because the biased MSM won't Connect the dots...

Those are the FACTS and the model for this..National Motor Voter Bill.. which most
of you DON"T seem to remember what that did in:
1) creating more illegal river crossing democrats..
2) rising health care costs ... going to hospitals and due to 1986 EMTALA..
3) Now we have Obamacare once again.. a Democrat driven voter supposedly helpful
to the "poor" down trodden.. offered by Poverty PIMPS' DEMOCRATS!
 
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