Waffen SS during WWII

[L.K.Eder]

Jagdpanther

Is not a Panther Tank, it is a "Tank Destroyer"

It is a tank, designed to destroy other tanks.
holy fuck.

No, it isn't. it is technically an assault gun. It has no turret, thus it CAN'T be a tank. learn your designations.

Lol. I knew it. Pathetic.

 

[alang1216]

I can’t agree. The massive arial/fire bombings were as bad as the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese. The a-bombings were worse than anything they did, since Japan was trying to surrender for months beforehand

Really?? It's likely that more people died in the Rape of Nanjing than from both A-Bombs. And that was just one conquered city. Up to 25,000 died in the Dresden fire bombing. Several million German and Russian POWs died.

Japan's surrender offer was conditional until the A-bombs.

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

And you are a victim of socialist propaganda. The facts are the japanese military was prepared to fight to the bitter end. They created "Pole Bayonets" for the civilian population to use by affixing them to spears the theory being that as soon as the Marines hit the beach the civilians would rush in with their spears and attack the Marines before our superior firepower could annihilate them. This is all well known history. Not theory, or opinion, but HISTORY that is documented by both written, and physical objects.

Below is one of those pole bayonets.

The problem you have is they didn’t fight to the bitter end. They surrendered. In addition, if the Emperor had surrendered earlier, the military would have too. Why? Because that is exactly what they did ultimately.

The point is, they surrendered only after the a bombs. They were prepared to fight to the last man. The military was not ready to surrender, they were sure they could inflict so much damage on the US they could get something short of unconditional surrender. They were probably right though not before millions died in an invasion.

 

[westwall]

Jagdpanther

Is not a Panther Tank, it is a "Tank Destroyer"

It is a tank, designed to destroy other tanks.
holy fuck.

No, it isn't. it is technically an assault gun. It has no turret, thus it CAN'T be a tank. learn your designations.

Lol. I knew it. Pathetic.

No, that is the point, you DON'T "know it". In point of fact you know very little.


Basic Tank Parts
"Caterpillar tracks work on the same principle as a conveyer belt. The tank engine rotates one or more steel sprockets, which move a track made up of hundreds of metal links. The tank's wheels ride along the moving track, just like the wheels in a car run along the road. Earlier tracked vehicles weren't practical in battle because their steam engines were too cumbersome and unreliable. The internal combustion engine made tracked military vehicles feasible.

Tracked vehicles can move easily over rough terrain because the track makes contact with a wide area of the ground. A car grips the ground with only the bottom portion of four tires, but a tank grips it with dozens of feet of track. Additionally, the track has heavy tread that digs into muddy surfaces, and it never goes flat like a tire.

The hull is the bottom portion of the tank -- the track system and an armored body containing the engine and transmission. The hull's job is to transport the top portion of the tank, the turret, from place to place. The turret is an armored structure supporting one or more guns -- typically a heavy cannon and a couple of machine guns.

The M-1 tank has two main parts: a pivoting gun turret and a tracked hull.
PHOTO COURTESY U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
The turret sits in a wide circle at the center of the hull. In the conventional design, a spur gear in the hull (called the traverse gear) engages an internal gear lining the inside of the turret. Turning the traverse gear rotates the turret on the hull, allowing the tank crew to aim the main gun without turning the entire tank. The crew can also pivot the main gun up and down.

How M1 Tanks Work

 

[harmonica]

..they were outnumbered--and the allies had air superiority/naval superiority/etc
...they were very good
...German discipline was one of the reasons they were good
..I was in the military...you can train civilians --but if the people's culture is one of discipline, it is much easier to train them
..also, they will have the discipline needed for the many aspects of combat:
keeping your weapons clean/in order/etc
camouflage discipline
weapon accuracy
patrol/security
orderliness = logistics= training = inspections/etc
etc
the Germans are well known for their discipline

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I can’t agree. The massive arial/fire bombings were as bad as the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese. The a-bombings were worse than anything they did, since Japan was trying to surrender for months beforehand

Really?? It's likely that more people died in the Rape of Nanjing than from both A-Bombs. And that was just one conquered city. Up to 25,000 died in the Dresden fire bombing. Several million German and Russian POWs died.

Japan's surrender offer was conditional until the A-bombs.

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

Your LIE did not work in the numerous threads you have pedaled it in before it won't work here, again for the TRULY IGNORANT and STUPID, the Japanese Government NEVER offered to surrender in World War II

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

Japan was neither defeated nor defenseless. How many casualties did they inflict on the Marines at Iwo? If they were desperately trying to surrender why did they refuse to surrender unconditionally?

WRONG, but you won't accept the truth. You can't

Iwo was early in 1945 and does not apply to our discussion, Secondly, Iwo was nothing but a terrible waste of young American lives, for nothing but more stars for the commanders. Iwo was not used after it was taken, for aerial bombing of a defenseless nation. Do you know from what base the a-bombs were delivered? It wasn't Iwo.

As a typical duped American, (I was there once), you fail to understand Japan and the murderous consequences of FDR's bloodthirsty "unconditional surrender" requirement.

Again you fucking MORON Iwo was not taken to use to bomb Japan it was to rescue damaged bombers coming back from raids and to station fighters on.

 

[gipper]

I can’t agree. The massive arial/fire bombings were as bad as the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese. The a-bombings were worse than anything they did, since Japan was trying to surrender for months beforehand

Really?? It's likely that more people died in the Rape of Nanjing than from both A-Bombs. And that was just one conquered city. Up to 25,000 died in the Dresden fire bombing. Several million German and Russian POWs died.

Japan's surrender offer was conditional until the A-bombs.

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

And you are a victim of socialist propaganda. The facts are the japanese military was prepared to fight to the bitter end. They created "Pole Bayonets" for the civilian population to use by affixing them to spears the theory being that as soon as the Marines hit the beach the civilians would rush in with their spears and attack the Marines before our superior firepower could annihilate them. This is all well known history. Not theory, or opinion, but HISTORY that is documented by both written, and physical objects.

Below is one of those pole bayonets.

The problem you have is they didn’t fight to the bitter end. They surrendered. In addition, if the Emperor had surrendered earlier, the military would have too. Why? Because that is exactly what they did ultimately.

The point is, they surrendered only after the a bombs. They were prepared to fight to the last man. The military was not ready to surrender, they were sure they could inflict so much damage on the US they could get something short of unconditional surrender. They were probably right though not before millions died in an invasion.

If they were so fanatical, as Americans have been taught, why didn’t they fight to the death? They could have ignored the Emperor’s surrender order.

Do you think it appropriate that our leaders imposed unconditional surrender? I don’t. It caused hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths on both sides. Then when they did surrender unconditionally, the war criminal Truman granted their one condition, after he mass murder thousands of innocent civilians with the a-bombs.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The Waffen SS during WWII were arguably the best trained and most professional combat soldiers to fight in any modern war. Their field grade and staff officers came from Prussian families who's ancestors had been military men for several generations. ...

They also committed some of the worst war crimes so I wouldn't call them 'professional'.

Not advocating war crimes but so did the Russians, Japanese, and U.S. committed atrocities. War is Hell.

The 88MM gun was also used in the Tiger and Panther tanks and probably others.

The war crimes that Russia, Germany, and Japan committed were orders of magnitude worse than the US or the Brits (unless you count the area bombing of cities, then it was one or two orders of magnitude worse).

Got a ref for the numbers?
Includes 1000000 Iraqi civilians?

That number has been proven over and over to be nothing but a LIE.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I can’t agree. The massive arial/fire bombings were as bad as the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese. The a-bombings were worse than anything they did, since Japan was trying to surrender for months beforehand

Really?? It's likely that more people died in the Rape of Nanjing than from both A-Bombs. And that was just one conquered city. Up to 25,000 died in the Dresden fire bombing. Several million German and Russian POWs died.

Japan's surrender offer was conditional until the A-bombs.

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

And you are a victim of socialist propaganda. The facts are the japanese military was prepared to fight to the bitter end. They created "Pole Bayonets" for the civilian population to use by affixing them to spears the theory being that as soon as the Marines hit the beach the civilians would rush in with their spears and attack the Marines before our superior firepower could annihilate them. This is all well known history. Not theory, or opinion, but HISTORY that is documented by both written, and physical objects.

Below is one of those pole bayonets.

The problem you have is they didn’t fight to the bitter end. They surrendered. In addition, if the Emperor had surrendered earlier, the military would have too. Why? Because that is exactly what they did ultimately.

No actually the Army staged a Coup to stop the surrender.

 

[gipper]

I can’t agree. The massive arial/fire bombings were as bad as the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese. The a-bombings were worse than anything they did, since Japan was trying to surrender for months beforehand

Really?? It's likely that more people died in the Rape of Nanjing than from both A-Bombs. And that was just one conquered city. Up to 25,000 died in the Dresden fire bombing. Several million German and Russian POWs died.

Japan's surrender offer was conditional until the A-bombs.

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

And you are a victim of socialist propaganda. The facts are the japanese military was prepared to fight to the bitter end. They created "Pole Bayonets" for the civilian population to use by affixing them to spears the theory being that as soon as the Marines hit the beach the civilians would rush in with their spears and attack the Marines before our superior firepower could annihilate them. This is all well known history. Not theory, or opinion, but HISTORY that is documented by both written, and physical objects.

Below is one of those pole bayonets.

The problem you have is they didn’t fight to the bitter end. They surrendered. In addition, if the Emperor had surrendered earlier, the military would have too. Why? Because that is exactly what they did ultimately.

No actually the Army staged a Coup to stop the surrender.

Go away warmonger. I’ve schooled you way too many times.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Really?? It's likely that more people died in the Rape of Nanjing than from both A-Bombs. And that was just one conquered city. Up to 25,000 died in the Dresden fire bombing. Several million German and Russian POWs died.

Japan's surrender offer was conditional until the A-bombs.

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

And you are a victim of socialist propaganda. The facts are the japanese military was prepared to fight to the bitter end. They created "Pole Bayonets" for the civilian population to use by affixing them to spears the theory being that as soon as the Marines hit the beach the civilians would rush in with their spears and attack the Marines before our superior firepower could annihilate them. This is all well known history. Not theory, or opinion, but HISTORY that is documented by both written, and physical objects.

Below is one of those pole bayonets.

The problem you have is they didn’t fight to the bitter end. They surrendered. In addition, if the Emperor had surrendered earlier, the military would have too. Why? Because that is exactly what they did ultimately.

No actually the Army staged a Coup to stop the surrender.

Go away warmonger. I’ve schooled you way too many times.

No you keep posting lies I have proven were lies and failed to answer even one question with actual facts. You have no links and no proof of your bullshit claims.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The valiant Waffen SS were dedicated soldiers who got the job done and achieved their objectives. And woe to any enemy who stood in their way. ....

Thankfully their leadership sucked.

 

[westwall]

Really?? It's likely that more people died in the Rape of Nanjing than from both A-Bombs. And that was just one conquered city. Up to 25,000 died in the Dresden fire bombing. Several million German and Russian POWs died.

Japan's surrender offer was conditional until the A-bombs.

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

And you are a victim of socialist propaganda. The facts are the japanese military was prepared to fight to the bitter end. They created "Pole Bayonets" for the civilian population to use by affixing them to spears the theory being that as soon as the Marines hit the beach the civilians would rush in with their spears and attack the Marines before our superior firepower could annihilate them. This is all well known history. Not theory, or opinion, but HISTORY that is documented by both written, and physical objects.

Below is one of those pole bayonets.

The problem you have is they didn’t fight to the bitter end. They surrendered. In addition, if the Emperor had surrendered earlier, the military would have too. Why? Because that is exactly what they did ultimately.

The point is, they surrendered only after the a bombs. They were prepared to fight to the last man. The military was not ready to surrender, they were sure they could inflict so much damage on the US they could get something short of unconditional surrender. They were probably right though not before millions died in an invasion.

If they were so fanatical, as Americans have been taught, why didn’t they fight to the death? They could have ignored the Emperor’s surrender order.

Do you think it appropriate that our leaders imposed unconditional surrender? I don’t. It caused hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths on both sides. Then when they did surrender unconditionally, the war criminal Truman granted their one condition, after he mass murder thousands of innocent civilians with the a-bombs.

They were getting ready for just that. I dare you to read a few articles about the pole bayonet I posted.

Go ahead. i dare you.

 

[Ringel05]

 

[Oddball]

Waffen SS soldiers wore the coolest looking uniforms and always looked sharp. Even on the battlefield. .....

Well yeah, Hugo Boss designed them.

 

[percysunshine]

Waffen SS soldiers wore the coolest looking uniforms and always looked sharp. Even on the battlefield. .....

Well yeah, Hugo Boss designed them.

View attachment 250486

Kind of gay looking models there.

 

[Vastator]

The Waffen SS during WWII were arguably the best trained and most professional combat soldiers to fight in any modern war. Their field grade and staff officers came from Prussian families who's ancestors had been military men for several generations. ...

They also committed some of the worst war crimes so I wouldn't call them 'professional'.

They don't even land in the top ten. Put down the Kool-Aid...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Really?? It's likely that more people died in the Rape of Nanjing than from both A-Bombs. And that was just one conquered city. Up to 25,000 died in the Dresden fire bombing. Several million German and Russian POWs died.

Japan's surrender offer was conditional until the A-bombs.

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

And you are a victim of socialist propaganda. The facts are the japanese military was prepared to fight to the bitter end. They created "Pole Bayonets" for the civilian population to use by affixing them to spears the theory being that as soon as the Marines hit the beach the civilians would rush in with their spears and attack the Marines before our superior firepower could annihilate them. This is all well known history. Not theory, or opinion, but HISTORY that is documented by both written, and physical objects.

Below is one of those pole bayonets.

The problem you have is they didn’t fight to the bitter end. They surrendered. In addition, if the Emperor had surrendered earlier, the military would have too. Why? Because that is exactly what they did ultimately.

The point is, they surrendered only after the a bombs. They were prepared to fight to the last man. The military was not ready to surrender, they were sure they could inflict so much damage on the US they could get something short of unconditional surrender. They were probably right though not before millions died in an invasion.

If they were so fanatical, as Americans have been taught, why didn’t they fight to the death? They could have ignored the Emperor’s surrender order.

Do you think it appropriate that our leaders imposed unconditional surrender? I don’t. It caused hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths on both sides. Then when they did surrender unconditionally, the war criminal Truman granted their one condition, after he mass murder thousands of innocent civilians with the a-bombs.

Technically, they didn't surrender unconditionally. The US left one condition that the Japanese insisted on. The Emperor was left in place. Taking that off the table allowed the Japanese People to at least save a little face and saving face to a Japanese Culture is all there is. Until the last round, the Emperor was to be removed and tried like all the Generals and Admirals. So did they surrender Unconditionally? Yes and no.

 

[gipper]

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

And you are a victim of socialist propaganda. The facts are the japanese military was prepared to fight to the bitter end. They created "Pole Bayonets" for the civilian population to use by affixing them to spears the theory being that as soon as the Marines hit the beach the civilians would rush in with their spears and attack the Marines before our superior firepower could annihilate them. This is all well known history. Not theory, or opinion, but HISTORY that is documented by both written, and physical objects.

Below is one of those pole bayonets.

The problem you have is they didn’t fight to the bitter end. They surrendered. In addition, if the Emperor had surrendered earlier, the military would have too. Why? Because that is exactly what they did ultimately.

The point is, they surrendered only after the a bombs. They were prepared to fight to the last man. The military was not ready to surrender, they were sure they could inflict so much damage on the US they could get something short of unconditional surrender. They were probably right though not before millions died in an invasion.

If they were so fanatical, as Americans have been taught, why didn’t they fight to the death? They could have ignored the Emperor’s surrender order.

Do you think it appropriate that our leaders imposed unconditional surrender? I don’t. It caused hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths on both sides. Then when they did surrender unconditionally, the war criminal Truman granted their one condition, after he mass murder thousands of innocent civilians with the a-bombs.

Technically, they didn't surrender unconditionally. The US left one condition that the Japanese insisted on. The Emperor was left in place. Taking that off the table allowed the Japanese People to at least save a little face and saving face to a Japanese Culture is all there is. Until the last round, the Emperor was to be removed and tried like all the Generals and Admirals. So did they surrender Unconditionally? Yes and no.

No. The Japanese surrendered unconditionally. Then Truman granted their one condition after he mass murdered thousands of innocent women and children, with the a-bombs.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And you are a victim of socialist propaganda. The facts are the japanese military was prepared to fight to the bitter end. They created "Pole Bayonets" for the civilian population to use by affixing them to spears the theory being that as soon as the Marines hit the beach the civilians would rush in with their spears and attack the Marines before our superior firepower could annihilate them. This is all well known history. Not theory, or opinion, but HISTORY that is documented by both written, and physical objects.

Below is one of those pole bayonets.

The problem you have is they didn’t fight to the bitter end. They surrendered. In addition, if the Emperor had surrendered earlier, the military would have too. Why? Because that is exactly what they did ultimately.

The point is, they surrendered only after the a bombs. They were prepared to fight to the last man. The military was not ready to surrender, they were sure they could inflict so much damage on the US they could get something short of unconditional surrender. They were probably right though not before millions died in an invasion.

If they were so fanatical, as Americans have been taught, why didn’t they fight to the death? They could have ignored the Emperor’s surrender order.

Do you think it appropriate that our leaders imposed unconditional surrender? I don’t. It caused hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths on both sides. Then when they did surrender unconditionally, the war criminal Truman granted their one condition, after he mass murder thousands of innocent civilians with the a-bombs.

Technically, they didn't surrender unconditionally. The US left one condition that the Japanese insisted on. The Emperor was left in place. Taking that off the table allowed the Japanese People to at least save a little face and saving face to a Japanese Culture is all there is. Until the last round, the Emperor was to be removed and tried like all the Generals and Admirals. So did they surrender Unconditionally? Yes and no.

No. The Japanese surrendered unconditionally. Then Truman granted their one condition after he mass murdered thousands of innocent women and children, with the a-bombs.

You don't listen too well. The one condition that the Japanese would not budge on was the removal of the Emperor. And until the last round, that was still in the agreement. Even after all the wholesale deaths, they Japanese would not surrender. To them, the Emperor was a God and they would not forsake their God. On the last round AFTER the 2nd A-bomb, they left the Emperor in place and the Japanese surrendered. You can't change history just by saying something different. And you can't use Western Logic on the Japanese even today.