Waffen SS during WWII

[gipper]

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

Japan was neither defeated nor defenseless. How many casualties did they inflict on the Marines at Iwo? If they were desperately trying to surrender why did they refuse to surrender unconditionally?

WRONG, but you won't accept the truth. You can't

Iwo was early in 1945 and does not apply to our discussion, Secondly, Iwo was nothing but a terrible waste of young American lives, for nothing but more stars for the commanders. Iwo was not used after it was taken, for aerial bombing of a defenseless nation. Do you know from what base the a-bombs were delivered? It wasn't Iwo.

As a typical duped American, (I was there once), you fail to understand Japan and the murderous consequences of FDR's bloodthirsty "unconditional surrender" requirement.

 

[L.K.Eder]

No matter your political leanings. It can't be denied the heroic Wehrmacht soldiers fought courageously against overwhelming odds to rid Europe from atheist Bolshevism. ...

that is until the USA kicked their ass's

We did it by sheer numbers, not anything else. Germany ended up having to expend all it's resources while the US had resources including manpower to burn in comparison.

Ummm, yes, and no. Yes we outproduced the hell out of them. But no, we did not have "manpower to burn". That is antithetical to the US way of war. The Soviets and the Germans, and other collectivist governments are more than happy to waste their people. But individualist societies are not. That's why we killed and captured more Germans, for fewer losses than any other military save the British.

i guess it was a collectivist episode to send the army into the hürtgenwald. lol.

 

[alang1216]

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

Japan was neither defeated nor defenseless. How many casualties did they inflict on the Marines at Iwo? If they were desperately trying to surrender why did they refuse to surrender unconditionally?

WRONG, but you won't accept the truth. You can't

Iwo was early in 1945 and does not apply to our discussion, Secondly, Iwo was nothing but a terrible waste of young American lives, for nothing but more stars for the commanders. Iwo was not used after it was taken, for aerial bombing of a defenseless nation. Do you know from what base the a-bombs were delivered? It wasn't Iwo.

As a typical duped American, (I was there once), you fail to understand Japan and the murderous consequences of FDR's bloodthirsty "unconditional surrender" requirement.

Iwo was needed as an air base for the invasion of Japan. Okinawa was much later and the "defenseless" Japanese inflicted 50,000 casualties. They mostly fought to the death so I don't know they considered themselves defeated.

I'm willing to accept any truth, you just haven't shown me much. I'm not much of a conspiracy guy.

 

[ph3iron]

The Waffen SS during WWII were arguably the best trained and most professional combat soldiers to fight in any modern war. Their field grade and staff officers came from Prussian families who's ancestors had been military men for several generations. ...

They also committed some of the worst war crimes so I wouldn't call them 'professional'.

Not advocating war crimes but so did the Russians, Japanese, and U.S. committed atrocities. War is Hell.

The 88MM gun was also used in the Tiger and Panther tanks and probably others.

The war crimes that Russia, Germany, and Japan committed were orders of magnitude worse than the US or the Brits (unless you count the area bombing of cities, then it was one or two orders of magnitude worse).

Got a ref for the numbers?
Includes 1000000 Iraqi civilians?

 

[ph3iron]

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

Japan was neither defeated nor defenseless. How many casualties did they inflict on the Marines at Iwo? If they were desperately trying to surrender why did they refuse to surrender unconditionally?

WRONG, but you won't accept the truth. You can't

Iwo was early in 1945 and does not apply to our discussion, Secondly, Iwo was nothing but a terrible waste of young American lives, for nothing but more stars for the commanders. Iwo was not used after it was taken, for aerial bombing of a defenseless nation. Do you know from what base the a-bombs were delivered? It wasn't Iwo.

As a typical duped American, (I was there once), you fail to understand Japan and the murderous consequences of FDR's bloodthirsty "unconditional surrender" requirement.

Iwo was needed as an air base for the invasion of Japan. Okinawa was much later and the "defenseless" Japanese inflicted 50,000 casualties. They mostly fought to the death so I don't know they considered themselves defeated.

I'm willing to accept any truth, you just haven't shown me much. I'm not much of a conspiracy guy.

No conspiracy?
You have no place on our white supremist old fart board then

 

[Sunni Man]

If they were desperately trying to surrender why did they refuse to surrender unconditionally?

The Japanese were willing to surrender, provided the Emperor wasn't jailed or prosecuted.

The Allies stuck to their demand of unconditional surrender with no exceptions, which resulted in the dropping of two atomic bombs.

Funny thing is, when the Japanese finally accepted the unconditional surrender. Gen. MacArthur took no legal action against the Emperor and basically left him alone. ....

 

[gipper]

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

Japan was neither defeated nor defenseless. How many casualties did they inflict on the Marines at Iwo? If they were desperately trying to surrender why did they refuse to surrender unconditionally?

WRONG, but you won't accept the truth. You can't

Iwo was early in 1945 and does not apply to our discussion, Secondly, Iwo was nothing but a terrible waste of young American lives, for nothing but more stars for the commanders. Iwo was not used after it was taken, for aerial bombing of a defenseless nation. Do you know from what base the a-bombs were delivered? It wasn't Iwo.

As a typical duped American, (I was there once), you fail to understand Japan and the murderous consequences of FDR's bloodthirsty "unconditional surrender" requirement.

Iwo was needed as an air base for the invasion of Japan. Okinawa was much later and the "defenseless" Japanese inflicted 50,000 casualties. They mostly fought to the death so I don't know they considered themselves defeated.

I'm willing to accept any truth, you just haven't shown me much. I'm not much of a conspiracy guy.

WRONG. Iwo was NEVER used for an air base by the US. Please look it up.

 

[Sunni Man]

WRONG. Iwo was NEVER used for an air base by the US. Please look it up.

Correct ..

The allies moved so across the Pacific so fast that Iwo's only purpose was its use as an emergency landing strip for crippled and damaged bombers.

 

[alang1216]

The Waffen SS during WWII were arguably the best trained and most professional combat soldiers to fight in any modern war. Their field grade and staff officers came from Prussian families who's ancestors had been military men for several generations. ...

They also committed some of the worst war crimes so I wouldn't call them 'professional'.

Not advocating war crimes but so did the Russians, Japanese, and U.S. committed atrocities. War is Hell.

The 88MM gun was also used in the Tiger and Panther tanks and probably others.

The war crimes that Russia, Germany, and Japan committed were orders of magnitude worse than the US or the Brits (unless you count the area bombing of cities, then it was one or two orders of magnitude worse).

Got a ref for the numbers?
Includes 1000000 Iraqi civilians?

I was only citing WWII

 

[alang1216]

No conspiracy?
You have no place on our white supremist old fart board then

pearls before swine

 

[alang1216]

WRONG. Iwo was NEVER used for an air base by the US. Please look it up.

You were the who said the a bomb was sent from iwo? It was an air base.
File:P-51s at North Field Iwo Jima 1945.jpg - Wikipedia

 

[gipper]

WRONG. Iwo was NEVER used for an air base by the US. Please look it up.

You were the who said the a bomb was sent from iwo? It was an air base.
File:P-51s at North Field Iwo Jima 1945.jpg - Wikipedia

I do not. I asked you where did they fly from? You have yet to answer. It wasn’t Iwo. No bombing missions were flown out of Iwo.

 

[gipper]

WRONG. Iwo was NEVER used for an air base by the US. Please look it up.

Correct ..

The allies moved so across the Pacific so fast that Iwo's only purpose was its use as an emergency landing strip for crippled and damaged bombers.

Yes and for that, thousands of American boys died and were wounded. Hardly worth it.

 

[westwall]

Jagdpanther

Is not a Panther Tank, it is a "Tank Destroyer"

It is a tank, designed to destroy other tanks.
holy fuck.

No, it isn't. it is technically an assault gun. It has no turret, thus it CAN'T be a tank. learn your designations.

 

[westwall]

No matter your political leanings. It can't be denied the heroic Wehrmacht soldiers fought courageously against overwhelming odds to rid Europe from atheist Bolshevism. ...

that is until the USA kicked their ass's

We did it by sheer numbers, not anything else. Germany ended up having to expend all it's resources while the US had resources including manpower to burn in comparison.

Ummm, yes, and no. Yes we outproduced the hell out of them. But no, we did not have "manpower to burn". That is antithetical to the US way of war. The Soviets and the Germans, and other collectivist governments are more than happy to waste their people. But individualist societies are not. That's why we killed and captured more Germans, for fewer losses than any other military save the British.

i guess it was a collectivist episode to send the army into the hürtgenwald. lol.

No, it was a stupid decision by the Generals in charge. On the other hand, were it a German assault, the casualties would have been three times as great based on the casualty rates they did suffer.

 

[westwall]

If they were desperately trying to surrender why did they refuse to surrender unconditionally?

The Japanese were willing to surrender, provided the Emperor wasn't jailed or prosecuted.

The Allies stuck to their demand of unconditional surrender with no exceptions, which resulted in the dropping of two atomic bombs.

Funny thing is, when the Japanese finally accepted the unconditional surrender. Gen. MacArthur took no legal action against the Emperor and basically left him alone. ....

Not entirely true. There was a coordinated effort to un deify the Emperor. MacArthur took great pains to prove to the Japanese populace that the Emperor was merely a mortal man. The Japanese culture itself was what was attacked.

 

[westwall]

WRONG. Iwo was NEVER used for an air base by the US. Please look it up.

You were the who said the a bomb was sent from iwo? It was an air base.
File:P-51s at North Field Iwo Jima 1945.jpg - Wikipedia

I do not. I asked you where did they fly from? You have yet to answer. It wasn’t Iwo. No bombing missions were flown out of Iwo.

Once again, not true. There was at least one B-24 outfit that flew from Central Field and that airfield also had 20 B-29's that flew from it. Additionally there were over 120 P-51s and two night fighter squadrons that flew from just that airfield alone. There were others on Iwo.

 

[westwall]

I can’t agree. The massive arial/fire bombings were as bad as the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese. The a-bombings were worse than anything they did, since Japan was trying to surrender for months beforehand

Really?? It's likely that more people died in the Rape of Nanjing than from both A-Bombs. And that was just one conquered city. Up to 25,000 died in the Dresden fire bombing. Several million German and Russian POWs died.

Japan's surrender offer was conditional until the A-bombs.

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

And you are a victim of socialist propaganda. The facts are the japanese military was prepared to fight to the bitter end. They created "Pole Bayonets" for the civilian population to use by affixing them to spears the theory being that as soon as the Marines hit the beach the civilians would rush in with their spears and attack the Marines before our superior firepower could annihilate them. This is all well known history. Not theory, or opinion, but HISTORY that is documented by both written, and physical objects.

Below is one of those pole bayonets.

 

[alang1216]

No bombing missions were flown out of Iwo.

On 16 March, US Navy PB4Y-1's (Navy version of the B-24) patrol bombers of VPB-116 arrived at this airfield from Tinian. The patrol bombers performed various missions from South Field through the remainder of the war.

 

[gipper]

I can’t agree. The massive arial/fire bombings were as bad as the atrocities committed by the Germans and Japanese. The a-bombings were worse than anything they did, since Japan was trying to surrender for months beforehand

Really?? It's likely that more people died in the Rape of Nanjing than from both A-Bombs. And that was just one conquered city. Up to 25,000 died in the Dresden fire bombing. Several million German and Russian POWs died.

Japan's surrender offer was conditional until the A-bombs.

Whatever.

Americans like to believe that mass murdering thousands of innocent civilians of a nation defeated, defenseless, and desperately trying to surrender, was justified.

Proving government propaganda works.

And you are a victim of socialist propaganda. The facts are the japanese military was prepared to fight to the bitter end. They created "Pole Bayonets" for the civilian population to use by affixing them to spears the theory being that as soon as the Marines hit the beach the civilians would rush in with their spears and attack the Marines before our superior firepower could annihilate them. This is all well known history. Not theory, or opinion, but HISTORY that is documented by both written, and physical objects.

Below is one of those pole bayonets.

The problem you have is they didn’t fight to the bitter end. They surrendered. In addition, if the Emperor had surrendered earlier, the military would have too. Why? Because that is exactly what they did ultimately.