Voting for Clinton = voting for WWIII with Russia

[Vigilante]

 

[Sbiker]

Guys, you're all discussing wrong alternatives.

The war with Russia ALREADY started. Two years ago at Ukraine, as "proxy-conflict" - but it is really war against Russia.

Could the Trump stop it or no - it's a question of politic benefits.

Voting for Hillary - you voting not for war, but for probability of nuclear escalation of war. I don't know, maybe she's hate this world with her unfaithful husband, maybe she believes in propaganda about "weak russia" too much, maybe she's some times just unadequate because of illness - it doesn't means. What would be the final result?

 

[Divine Wind]

That's fine, but we were dealing in a technical area. What I said was not incorrect. Obviously, the president and his appointees has discretion on how various funds are allocated. And at no point did I claim Obama was a king with unchecked power. You're simply indulging in fallacies.

Dance and Jive all you want but the fact remains no President can spend money for long without approval of Congress.

Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text
Section. 7.

All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill.

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

That's fine, but we were dealing in a technical area. What I said was not incorrect. Obviously, the president and his appointees has discretion on how various funds are allocated. And at no point did I claim Obama was a king with unchecked power. You're simply indulging in fallacies.

Dance and Jive all you want but the fact remains no President can spend money for long without approval of Congress.

Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text
Section. 7.

All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill.

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Yea, it's all on Congress. That's why people (including you) get so worked up when voting for president.

 

[rhodescholar]

Assad and his alavits - are Christian.

WRONG. Alawites are a sect of shia muslim.

9/11 were performed by muslim...US still upkeep muslim against christians after 9/11... How wonderful!

So you blame the US for the lunatic amounts of muslim violence/terrorism around the world?

 

[theHawk]

It doesn't matter if Assad is "legitimate" or not, it's not our concern and we should not be meddling in the affairs of Middle Eastern governments. Besides, there can never be any true democracy with Muslims. They will always vote in religious nuts that will rule them with an iron fist. So it's either secular dictators to keep the religious nuts in line, or the wild west with Islamists chopping heads off. We should stay out of it and let the savages kill each other. We don't need to be in a proxy war with Russia.

Don't disagree with much of what you said; the issue is not so much syria as it is iran and russia, who are gobbling up neighboring states without resistance from the US or West, and living in a world where diseased, hideous countries like those enjoy vast rule over whole regions simply cannot be tolerated. Neighboring countries are jeopardized by this, who trade with the US and help protect the world order and US national security interests; the day of sitting isolated thinking two oceans will protect the US are long gone. Even further, if more of these countries are de-stabilized, even more refugees will try to leave for the West, creating even more problems. A stable world free of iranian and russian malfeasance is a better one for the US.

The West would not accept Germany conquering Poland and Eastern Europe, and it should never have allowed russia to grab Ukraine or iran to operate with a free hand in iraq, lebanon, yemen or gaza. Its time for an adult to re-enter the White House, and engage the proper response to such criminal regimes.

If Russia wants to and can "grab up" Islamic shithole countries and keep them inline, then by all means I say let them. Better Russia keeps their thumbs on them than letting them run wild.

 

[Syriusly]

Clinton Inc. and neocons are crazy, they want to kill the World in a nuclear Armageddon.

Yeah- Trump will prevent World War by allowing Russia to take over Eastern Europe- and China to take over Southeast Asia.

"Peace in our Time" should be Trump motto.

 

[Sbiker]

Assad and his alavits - are Christian.

WRONG. Alawites are a sect of shia muslim.

Ask alawites, not shiites about this...

9/11 were performed by muslim...US still upkeep muslim against christians after 9/11... How wonderful!

So you blame the US for the lunatic amounts of muslim violence/terrorism around the world?

No. You're blaming, if you want... I just paying attention of some logic riddles in world politics

 

[Divine Wind]

Yea, it's all on Congress. That's why people (including you) get so worked up when voting for president.

Please cite a post where I'm "worked up when voting for president".

Disagree that it's all Congress. The Constitution is clear about the division of duties. They wisely set up a tripod for our government specifically to limit its powers. LWers are enthralled with the idea of an all powerful central government run by elitists to tell us commoners what to do, how to live and what to believe, but I side with the Founders idea of limiting the powers of the Federal government.

I know you are smart enough to know the structure of our government, so it mystifies me why you and I are having problems over this point of fact.

 

[rhodescholar]

Ask alawites, not shiites about this...

Alawites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Alawites, also known as Alawis (ʿAlawīyyah Arabic: علوية‎‎), are part of a branch of Islam, Alawi Islam, centered in Syria, who follow the Twelver school of Shia Islambut with syncretistic elements. Alawites revere Ali (Ali ibn Abi Talib), and the name "Alawi" means followers of Ali (they are generally considered Ghulat)."

You're welcome.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Yea, it's all on Congress. That's why people (including you) get so worked up when voting for president.

Please cite a post where I'm "worked up when voting for president".

Disagree that it's all Congress. The Constitution is clear about the division of duties. They wisely set up a tripod for our government specifically to limit its powers. LWers are enthralled with the idea of an all powerful central government run by elitists to tell us commoners what to do, how to live and what to believe, but I side with the Founders idea of limiting the powers of the Federal government.

I know you are smart enough to know the structure of our government, so it mystifies me why you and I are having problems over this point of fact.

Yea, the president is a penniless figurehead.

But let's go by your line of thought. Show me where the Congress specifically authorized a $400 million payoff to Iran. Show me where they authorized Fast And Furious.

 

[Divine Wind]

Yea, the president is a penniless figurehead.

But let's go by your line of thought. Show me where the Congress specifically authorized a $400 million payoff to Iran. Show me where they authorized Fast And Furious.

Dude, I know you are entrenched in your position that Obama is King. That's fine. You are free to believe as you wish. My point is to show others how that point of view is wrong and to remind them of the actual structure of our government.

As for the $400M, it was their money. I don't agree with giving it back to a terrorist nation, but the fact remains the President had the authority to do so. If it was US taxpayer money, that'd be up to Congress, wouldn't it?

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Yea, the president is a penniless figurehead.

But let's go by your line of thought. Show me where the Congress specifically authorized a $400 million payoff to Iran. Show me where they authorized Fast And Furious.

Dude, I know you are entrenched in your position that Obama is King. That's fine. You are free to believe as you wish. My point is to show others how that point of view is wrong and to remind them of the actual structure of our government.

As for the $400M, it was their money. I don't agree with giving it back to a terrorist nation, but the fact remains the President had the authority to do so. If it was US taxpayer money, that'd be up to Congress, wouldn't it?

You keep playing the Obama is king card when that's not the tree we've been on. Reality is you're downplaying the levels of authority and influence of the president b/c you want us to believe sh** is someone else's fault.

 

[Divine Wind]

You keep playing the Obama is king card when that's not the tree we've been on. Reality is you're downplaying the levels of authority and influence of the president b/c you want us to believe sh** is someone else's fault.

Dude, you're free to think Obama has the key to the US treasury and can spend it like he wants. I disagreed and proved why.

It confirms what I know; that the Obama regime is more interested in propping up Islamofascists than defeating ISIS. Russia ain't playing that.

If this was true, why is a Republican Congress supporting it?

Why are our military personnel supporting this? Do you believe they are all stupid, gullible, robots or traitors as several on this forum have declared?

 

[thanatos144]

It doesn't matter if Assad is "legitimate" or not, it's not our concern and we should not be meddling in the affairs of Middle Eastern governments. Besides, there can never be any true democracy with Muslims. They will always vote in religious nuts that will rule them with an iron fist. So it's either secular dictators to keep the religious nuts in line, or the wild west with Islamists chopping heads off. We should stay out of it and let the savages kill each other. We don't need to be in a proxy war with Russia.

Don't disagree with much of what you said; the issue is not so much syria as it is iran and russia, who are gobbling up neighboring states without resistance from the US or West, and living in a world where diseased, hideous countries like those enjoy vast rule over whole regions simply cannot be tolerated. Neighboring countries are jeopardized by this, who trade with the US and help protect the world order and US national security interests; the day of sitting isolated thinking two oceans will protect the US are long gone. Even further, if more of these countries are de-stabilized, even more refugees will try to leave for the West, creating even more problems. A stable world free of iranian and russian malfeasance is a better one for the US.

The West would not accept Germany conquering Poland and Eastern Europe, and it should never have allowed russia to grab Ukraine or iran to operate with a free hand in iraq, lebanon, yemen or gaza. Its time for an adult to re-enter the White House, and engage the proper response to such criminal regimes.

If Russia wants to and can "grab up" Islamic shithole countries and keep them inline, then by all means I say let them. Better Russia keeps their thumbs on them than letting them run wild.

You show you are ignorant of history. Ignoring problems have never worked out for us.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

It doesn't matter if Assad is "legitimate" or not, it's not our concern and we should not be meddling in the affairs of Middle Eastern governments. Besides, there can never be any true democracy with Muslims. They will always vote in religious nuts that will rule them with an iron fist. So it's either secular dictators to keep the religious nuts in line, or the wild west with Islamists chopping heads off. We should stay out of it and let the savages kill each other. We don't need to be in a proxy war with Russia.

Don't disagree with much of what you said; the issue is not so much syria as it is iran and russia, who are gobbling up neighboring states without resistance from the US or West, and living in a world where diseased, hideous countries like those enjoy vast rule over whole regions simply cannot be tolerated. Neighboring countries are jeopardized by this, who trade with the US and help protect the world order and US national security interests; the day of sitting isolated thinking two oceans will protect the US are long gone. Even further, if more of these countries are de-stabilized, even more refugees will try to leave for the West, creating even more problems. A stable world free of iranian and russian malfeasance is a better one for the US.

The West would not accept Germany conquering Poland and Eastern Europe, and it should never have allowed russia to grab Ukraine or iran to operate with a free hand in iraq, lebanon, yemen or gaza. Its time for an adult to re-enter the White House, and engage the proper response to such criminal regimes.

If Russia wants to and can "grab up" Islamic shithole countries and keep them inline, then by all means I say let them. Better Russia keeps their thumbs on them than letting them run wild.

You show you are ignorant of history. Ignoring problems have never worked out for us.

That was when we had intelligent, competent patriots in charge. With what we have now, ignoring problems and letting others step in is the best we can do.

 

[thanatos144]

It doesn't matter if Assad is "legitimate" or not, it's not our concern and we should not be meddling in the affairs of Middle Eastern governments. Besides, there can never be any true democracy with Muslims. They will always vote in religious nuts that will rule them with an iron fist. So it's either secular dictators to keep the religious nuts in line, or the wild west with Islamists chopping heads off. We should stay out of it and let the savages kill each other. We don't need to be in a proxy war with Russia.

Don't disagree with much of what you said; the issue is not so much syria as it is iran and russia, who are gobbling up neighboring states without resistance from the US or West, and living in a world where diseased, hideous countries like those enjoy vast rule over whole regions simply cannot be tolerated. Neighboring countries are jeopardized by this, who trade with the US and help protect the world order and US national security interests; the day of sitting isolated thinking two oceans will protect the US are long gone. Even further, if more of these countries are de-stabilized, even more refugees will try to leave for the West, creating even more problems. A stable world free of iranian and russian malfeasance is a better one for the US.

The West would not accept Germany conquering Poland and Eastern Europe, and it should never have allowed russia to grab Ukraine or iran to operate with a free hand in iraq, lebanon, yemen or gaza. Its time for an adult to re-enter the White House, and engage the proper response to such criminal regimes.

If Russia wants to and can "grab up" Islamic shithole countries and keep them inline, then by all means I say let them. Better Russia keeps their thumbs on them than letting them run wild.

You show you are ignorant of history. Ignoring problems have never worked out for us.

That was when we had intelligent, competent patriots in charge. With what we have now, ignoring problems and letting others step in is the best we can do.

I am sure it wont be a repeat of what happened before if we let a authoritarian dictator take control of other regions we have a vested interest in.... What ever could go wrong? I mean it is not like our word means anything anymore right?

 

[Divine Wind]

You show you are ignorant of history. Ignoring problems have never worked out for us.

Agreed on this point. Clinton ignoring al-Qaeda while getting his dick sucked by Monica. Obama referring to ISIS as a "jv team" plus bluffing about redlines and losing.

What Obama said about Islamic State as a 'JV' team

Before the LWers get their knickers in a bunch, let's not forget a Republican Congress that was more interested in thwarting Obama rather than do what is best for the nation.

 

[theHawk]

It doesn't matter if Assad is "legitimate" or not, it's not our concern and we should not be meddling in the affairs of Middle Eastern governments. Besides, there can never be any true democracy with Muslims. They will always vote in religious nuts that will rule them with an iron fist. So it's either secular dictators to keep the religious nuts in line, or the wild west with Islamists chopping heads off. We should stay out of it and let the savages kill each other. We don't need to be in a proxy war with Russia.

Don't disagree with much of what you said; the issue is not so much syria as it is iran and russia, who are gobbling up neighboring states without resistance from the US or West, and living in a world where diseased, hideous countries like those enjoy vast rule over whole regions simply cannot be tolerated. Neighboring countries are jeopardized by this, who trade with the US and help protect the world order and US national security interests; the day of sitting isolated thinking two oceans will protect the US are long gone. Even further, if more of these countries are de-stabilized, even more refugees will try to leave for the West, creating even more problems. A stable world free of iranian and russian malfeasance is a better one for the US.

The West would not accept Germany conquering Poland and Eastern Europe, and it should never have allowed russia to grab Ukraine or iran to operate with a free hand in iraq, lebanon, yemen or gaza. Its time for an adult to re-enter the White House, and engage the proper response to such criminal regimes.

If Russia wants to and can "grab up" Islamic shithole countries and keep them inline, then by all means I say let them. Better Russia keeps their thumbs on them than letting them run wild.

You show you are ignorant of history. Ignoring problems have never worked out for us.

I never said to ignore them. I said we should stop trying to manipulate which leaders they pick.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

You keep playing the Obama is king card when that's not the tree we've been on. Reality is you're downplaying the levels of authority and influence of the president b/c you want us to believe sh** is someone else's fault.

Dude, you're free to think Obama has the key to the US treasury and can spend it like he wants. I disagreed and proved why.

It confirms what I know; that the Obama regime is more interested in propping up Islamofascists than defeating ISIS. Russia ain't playing that.

If this was true, why is a Republican Congress supporting it?

Why are our military personnel supporting this? Do you believe they are all stupid, gullible, robots or traitors as several on this forum have declared?

No, you gave me some lame high school civics outlines.