Voter I.D. Question

[g5000]

Voter ID is a way of making someone vote to register more than once. We already have a voter registration process. If dead people are voting, then the voter registration process needs to be fixed, not a new layer of bureacracy and paperwork added.

You prove your citizenship and eligiblity to vote when you register. There is no good reason given by anyone why this must be done twice. None.

No state has ever provided evidence that less fraud occurs or will occur with a photo ID law.

Therefore, one must conclude there is an entirely different reason why the powers-that-be are pushing the rubes to ask for Voter ID. When a WWII vet was denied his right to vote due to a lack of ID, all the right wingers were profoundly silent. Their silence screams of a different motive at work.

There is another reason why the powers-that-be want to put up another impediment to your constitutional right to vote.

Stop drinking their piss.

 

[Navy1960]

The lame-assed charge that ID is a defacto poll tax is yet another red herring....The ID is free in Indiana, too.



Secretary of State : Election Division: Obtaining a Photo ID

How so Oddball, the ID is free, but the cost to aquire the ID is not, how then is that not a poll tax? As I said before Indiana seems to have found a way around this issue by allowing those without to vote with a provisional ballot that must be counted, but existing case law and the constitution makes no distinction on the fee to vote, be it for a ID or the cost one has to pay to get a Birth Certificate to get one. I submit that if the sole purpose of these laws is to prevent fraud then they would be totally free and the voter registration would be the ID, rather than the requirement for one to provide additional documentation at cost. It's pretty clear the number of cases of fraud are so small that this is more a solution in serach of a problem rather than the other way around, and still further had it been such an issue why then was it not an issue in 2000, 2002, 2004,2006, 2008,2010? why now? Taking all the politcal points out of it, the fact remains if a person or persons are required to pay a fee for the sole purpose of voting for any reason, then that is a poll tax, and according to my reading the State of Indiana seems to have made provisions for that with the provisional ballot.

In most cases, getting to the polls isn't free either.

Do we now try to claim that gasoline, auto insurance, or even bus fare are now defacto poll taxes?

No because, they are not "required" by a state legislature or law. as means to vote or not. Documentation for the purpose of acquiring a state I.D. for the purpose of voting is, other than the state of Indiana perhaps other states.

 

[DiamondDave]

Absolute horse shit...

I don't care if someone is a DEM voter, REP voter. GRE voter or votes for the goddamn Looney Tunes character...

It is about one thing and one thing only, which ones like you cannot get thru your thick skulls... ONLY ELIGIBLE CITIZENS VOTING, ONCE AND ONLY ONCE IN AN ELECTION

As I have shown, no one can provide evidence of any voter fraud which only Voter ID can prevent or catch.

The state of Pennsylvania has even admitted this. I put the evidence right in front of your face. So writing in ALL CAPS does not make your claims any truer. They are completely false.

The evidence of your foolishness has been placed right in your face. You now have to slam your fists over your eyes to willfully blind yourself to the facts.


Are you aware that we have had elections regularly for over two centuries WITHOUT Voter ID?

Yeah. Google it and see for yourself!


And yet with over two centuries of elections, and lots of voter fraud cases to choose from, you cannot identify a single one which only Voter ID would prevent or catch!


That should get something through your thick skull, but it doesn't. You drank the bongwater without asking for evidence.

There is no evidence. None. Zilch. Nada.

Read Pennsylvania's admission. Here is the evidence of your gullibility: http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/ApplewhiteStipulation.pdf

1) Even a single fraudulent vote or vote registration is one too many
2) You cannot prove future vote or vote registration fraud

the law states who can and cannot vote.. this is to ensure the law is followed BEFORE something could or would happen, instead of after the fact.. and yes, voter ID is not the ONLY way, but it is a damn good way that is quite feasible

I don't care if the ID's used (whether they are in conjunction with the registration card or another source) are issued free of charge after proof of who you are.... I think that would be an acceptable government expense... what I care about is MORE ASSURANCE that people voting are indeed eligible and are who they say they are... it is simple as that.. nothing more, nothing less

 

[g5000]

1) Even a single fraudulent vote or vote registration is one too many

Yep. But Voter ID will not do anything which cannot already be achieved by existing means.

Again, no state has provided evidence Voter ID is necessary.

Pennsylvania has openly admitted it.

Just because something is legal does not mean it is right.

Voter ID is an additional impediment to the exercising of your constitutional rights, and so you should be demanding evidence of its necessity.

There is no necessity.

So it is a bad idea which obviously has other motives behind it.

 

[DiamondDave]

So then the question becomes, does the Indiana standard apply to all states with Voter ID Laws, in that those without Voter ID's may cast a provisional ballot, while Indiana has it seems found a way around the poll tax issue, in that anyone may vote, even those without an ID, those without just need to vote by affidavit or so it appears. However in those states where a person or persons would need to pay to aquire those ID's or for any part of the process to vote the original question still stands, in that there seems to be a poll tax applied if a person has to pay any fee for any reason for the purpose of voting.

The lame-assed charge that ID is a defacto poll tax is yet another red herring....The ID is free in Indiana, too.

If you do not possess an ID that is acceptable for voting purposes, Public Law 109-2005 requires the BMV to issue an Indiana State ID Card for free.

Secretary of State : Election Division: Obtaining a Photo ID

How so Oddball, the ID is free, but the cost to aquire the ID is not, how then is that not a poll tax? As I said before Indiana seems to have found a way around this issue by allowing those without to vote with a provisional ballot that must be counted, but existing case law and the constitution makes no distinction on the fee to vote, be it for a ID or the cost one has to pay to get a Birth Certificate to get one. I submit that if the sole purpose of these laws is to prevent fraud then they would be totally free and the voter registration would be the ID, rather than the requirement for one to provide additional documentation at cost. It's pretty clear the number of cases of fraud are so small that this is more a solution in serach of a problem rather than the other way around, and still further had it been such an issue why then was it not an issue in 2000, 2002, 2004,2006, 2008,2010? why now? Taking all the politcal points out of it, the fact remains if a person or persons are required to pay a fee for the sole purpose of voting for any reason, then that is a poll tax, and according to my reading the State of Indiana seems to have made provisions for that with the provisional ballot.

Then stop having big government charge for 'licenses' such as birth certs and soc cards (which they do to gain more funds.. you cannot tell me a birth cert really costs $40 worth of paper, ink, or the time to push a button)...

Now a REPLACEMENT, beyond a free one that would be received initially, that would cost a fee, that is no issue.... for it was/is the responsibility of the person/citizen to take care of the documentation that was initially provided

And a birth cert/soc card is not only for the SOLE purpose of voting...

 

[DiamondDave]

1) Even a single fraudulent vote or vote registration is one too many

Yep. But Voter ID will not do anything which cannot already be achieved by existing means.

Again, no state has provided evidence Voter ID is necessary.

Pennsylvania has openly admitted it.

Just because something is legal does not mean it is right.

Voter ID is an additional impediment to the exercising of your constitutional rights, and so you should be demanding evidence of its necessity.

There is no necessity.

So it is a bad idea which obviously has other motives behind it.

Wrong.. a confirmed ID can catch one who is just going up and giving a name and address

It is legal, and it is right to ensure that everyone who is voting is a citizen eligible to vote and is who they say they are

 

[GoneBezerk]

Democraps can't explain how a bar can force you to show ID to buy alcohol, but they don't want an ID to vote in election where there is an age requirement, citizen requirement, and non-felon requirement.

 

[onecut39]

The President and the Democrats are against requiring a voter I.D. because it will keep illegal aliens from voting. If obama is going to win in November he needs the illegal alien vote.

Please show us some valid data that show illegals voting is now or ever has been a problem.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Here is the state of Pennsylvania's admission there is no justification for Voter ID: http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/ApplewhiteStipulation.pdf

Respondents will not offer any evidence or argument that in person voter fraud is likely to occur in November 2012 in the absence of the Photo ID law.

Is there a difference between fraudulent registration and 'in-person voter fraud'? Yes, I believe there is. When any Tom, Dick or Harry can register to vote without showing any form of eligibility to vote, then that person is not committing 'in-person voter fraud' when he casts his illegal ballot.

Requiring Photo ID to vote will certainly stop the MILLIONS of illegal votes cast by ineligible people who fraudulently REGISTER.

 

[Navy1960]

The lame-assed charge that ID is a defacto poll tax is yet another red herring....The ID is free in Indiana, too.



Secretary of State : Election Division: Obtaining a Photo ID

How so Oddball, the ID is free, but the cost to aquire the ID is not, how then is that not a poll tax? As I said before Indiana seems to have found a way around this issue by allowing those without to vote with a provisional ballot that must be counted, but existing case law and the constitution makes no distinction on the fee to vote, be it for a ID or the cost one has to pay to get a Birth Certificate to get one. I submit that if the sole purpose of these laws is to prevent fraud then they would be totally free and the voter registration would be the ID, rather than the requirement for one to provide additional documentation at cost. It's pretty clear the number of cases of fraud are so small that this is more a solution in serach of a problem rather than the other way around, and still further had it been such an issue why then was it not an issue in 2000, 2002, 2004,2006, 2008,2010? why now? Taking all the politcal points out of it, the fact remains if a person or persons are required to pay a fee for the sole purpose of voting for any reason, then that is a poll tax, and according to my reading the State of Indiana seems to have made provisions for that with the provisional ballot.

Then stop having big government charge for 'licenses' such as birth certs and soc cards (which they do to gain more funds.. you cannot tell me a birth cert really costs $40 worth of paper, ink, or the time to push a button)...

Now a REPLACEMENT, beyond a free one that would be received initially, that would cost a fee, that is no issue.... for it was/is the responsibility of the person/citizen to take care of the documentation that was initially provided

And a birth cert/soc card is not only for the SOLE purpose of voting...

I agree stop charging for it, and prices vary from state to state, and if an individual who does not have the right ID or no ID as required by state law to cast a ballot in a Presidential election, in order for that person to cast that ballot and get that ID the proper documentation they "pay" for is for the SOLE purpose of voting and is a Fee. Again, as I stated earlier, in Indiana if a person with no ID wishes to vote then can and need only sign and affidavit and cast a provisional ballot that will count. This standard is not the same standard in all states , if it were then this voter ID "poll tax" issue would be a non-issue.

As for your responsibility issue, no one can predict the paths in life people are going to take, nor the events in life people are going to face. Take for example someone who happens to have built their home in the Mountians in Arizona and lost everything as result of a forest fire , including ALL the documentation needed that you say they should have taken care of. In order for that person to become a citizen again in the eye's of some and to pay for his or her privledge of voting they need to pay all the fee's to regain all that lost documentaion and in some cases can be hard if impossible to attain for any number of reasons.

Forgive me if I fail to see an issue with voter fraud so bad that we need to violate the constitution in order to fix it. While I don't have much issue with a voter ID in general in that the voter ID is a simple matter of one's face on a voter registration card, and if it were such an issue, then it would not be just an issue now, as it seems to me we have had more than a few elections in the last 200 plus years.

 

[onecut39]

Democraps can't explain how a bar can force you to show ID to buy alcohol, but they don't want an ID to vote in election where there is an age requirement, citizen requirement, and non-felon requirement.

You obviously do not know how voting works and you rely on phony utube videos. Come to my precinct and cast a phony ballot. It is extremely difficult and you just may wind up talking to a cop.

We don't require photo ID. That doesn't mean you can vote if you are not a resident.

 

[GoneBezerk]

You're going to claim illegals, dead people and felons haven't voted illegally?

Nevermind people voting more than once, that was uncovered in Wisconsin during the Bush-Gore election.

People like you are scum just continually lying about every election being pristine with no illegals, no felons and not double voters casting 1 or more ballots.

Your stance against an ID at the ballot box proves you know your side relies on the illegal voters in any form.

The President and the Democrats are against requiring a voter I.D. because it will keep illegal aliens from voting. If obama is going to win in November he needs the illegal alien vote.

Please show us some valid data that show illegals voting is now or ever has been a problem.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Strange that Texas in their court case vs Attorney General Holder showed where dead people voted. Hmmm, explain that one asswipe.

Did the dead person walk into the voting booth and vote in front of the so-called police.

You're full of shit.

Democraps can't explain how a bar can force you to show ID to buy alcohol, but they don't want an ID to vote in election where there is an age requirement, citizen requirement, and non-felon requirement.

You obviously do not know how voting works and you rely on phony utube videos. Come to my precinct and cast a phony ballot. It is extremely difficult and you just may wind up talking to a cop.

We don't require photo ID. That doesn't mean you can vote if you are not a resident.

 

[GuyPinestra]

So then the question becomes, does the Indiana standard apply to all states with Voter ID Laws, in that those without Voter ID's may cast a provisional ballot, while Indiana has it seems found a way around the poll tax issue, in that anyone may vote, even those without an ID, those without just need to vote by affidavit or so it appears. However in those states where a person or persons would need to pay to aquire those ID's or for any part of the process to vote the original question still stands, in that there seems to be a poll tax applied if a person has to pay any fee for any reason for the purpose of voting.

The lame-assed charge that ID is a defacto poll tax is yet another red herring....The ID is free in Indiana, too.

If you do not possess an ID that is acceptable for voting purposes, Public Law 109-2005 requires the BMV to issue an Indiana State ID Card for free.

Secretary of State : Election Division: Obtaining a Photo ID

How so Oddball, the ID is free, but the cost to aquire the ID is not, how then is that not a poll tax? As I said before Indiana seems to have found a way around this issue by allowing those without to vote with a provisional ballot that must be counted, but existing case law and the constitution makes no distinction on the fee to vote, be it for a ID or the cost one has to pay to get a Birth Certificate to get one. I submit that if the sole purpose of these laws is to prevent fraud then they would be totally free and the voter registration would be the ID, rather than the requirement for one to provide additional documentation at cost. It's pretty clear the number of cases of fraud are so small that this is more a solution in serach of a problem rather than the other way around, and still further had it been such an issue why then was it not an issue in 2000, 2002, 2004,2006, 2008,2010? why now? Taking all the politcal points out of it, the fact remains if a person or persons are required to pay a fee for the sole purpose of voting for any reason, then that is a poll tax, and according to my reading the State of Indiana seems to have made provisions for that with the provisional ballot.

It HAS been an issue in prior elections, you just haven't heard about it because it hasn't been trumpeted by the MSM until now. There are 30 million illegal aliens in this country, and ALL of them are able to REGISTER without showing ANY eligibility. When they proceed to vote there is no 'in-person vote fraud' because the registered voter is the one casting the ballot, even though the ballot itself is fraudulent.

The requirement of photo ID will eliminate this massive fraudulent voter pool because the illegal aliens will be unable to obtain said ID.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Voter ID is a way of making someone vote to register more than once. We already have a voter registration process. If dead people are voting, then the voter registration process needs to be fixed, not a new layer of bureacracy and paperwork added.

You prove your citizenship and eligiblity to vote when you register. There is no good reason given by anyone why this must be done twice. None.

No state has ever provided evidence that less fraud occurs or will occur with a photo ID law.

Therefore, one must conclude there is an entirely different reason why the powers-that-be are pushing the rubes to ask for Voter ID. When a WWII vet was denied his right to vote due to a lack of ID, all the right wingers were profoundly silent. Their silence screams of a different motive at work.

There is another reason why the powers-that-be want to put up another impediment to your constitutional right to vote.

Stop drinking their piss.

In reference to the bolded above, you're full of shit! Voter registration requires NO PROOF of citizenship OR eligibility.

 

[g5000]

Democraps can't explain how a bar can force you to show ID to buy alcohol, but they don't want an ID to vote in election where there is an age requirement, citizen requirement, and non-felon requirement.

Is there another means by which you can buy alcohol without showing ID to prove your age?

Voter ID does not bring any added value to preventing or catching fraud.

You are comparing apples to oranges.


There. You have just had it explained to you, and it didn't take a Democrat!

 

[g5000]

Voter ID is a way of making someone vote to register more than once. We already have a voter registration process. If dead people are voting, then the voter registration process needs to be fixed, not a new layer of bureacracy and paperwork added.

You prove your citizenship and eligiblity to vote when you register. There is no good reason given by anyone why this must be done twice. None.

No state has ever provided evidence that less fraud occurs or will occur with a photo ID law.

Therefore, one must conclude there is an entirely different reason why the powers-that-be are pushing the rubes to ask for Voter ID. When a WWII vet was denied his right to vote due to a lack of ID, all the right wingers were profoundly silent. Their silence screams of a different motive at work.

There is another reason why the powers-that-be want to put up another impediment to your constitutional right to vote.

Stop drinking their piss.

In reference to the bolded above, you're full of shit! Voter registration requires NO PROOF of citizenship OR eligibility.

You have to show ID or some other proof, do you not? What does showing an ID on voting day do that registration does NOT do with respect to proving citizenship or eligibility?

 

[GoneBezerk]

Idiot, you need an ID to buy booze, rent a library book, get on a commercial airliner, drive a car, etc.

Of course you have no problem with someone showing up to choose people to run a city, state and country with "their word." if you can't be trusted to rent a library book, you shouldn't be trusted to vote without an ID.

Anyone claiming they can't get an ID is full of shit. Most times they have one hidden to cash their welfare check.

Democraps can't explain how a bar can force you to show ID to buy alcohol, but they don't want an ID to vote in election where there is an age requirement, citizen requirement, and non-felon requirement.

Is there another means by which you can buy alcohol without showing ID to prove your age?

Voter ID does not bring any added value to preventing or catching fraud.

You are comparing apples to oranges.


There. You have just had it explained to you, and it didn't take a Democrat!

 

[g5000]

Idiot, you need an ID to buy booze, rent a library book, get on a commercial airliner, drive a car, etc.

Yes. We know this. Is there another way to do any of these things to prove your eligibility to do them?

No. There isn't.

But there are existing means to prove your eligibility to vote without providing an ID to vote at the voting booth. After all, we have been doing it for over two centuries!

Hmmmm...


Proving you need an ID to drink is not evidence you need ID to vote! Are you really that illogical?

 

[Navy1960]

The lame-assed charge that ID is a defacto poll tax is yet another red herring....The ID is free in Indiana, too.



Secretary of State : Election Division: Obtaining a Photo ID

How so Oddball, the ID is free, but the cost to aquire the ID is not, how then is that not a poll tax? As I said before Indiana seems to have found a way around this issue by allowing those without to vote with a provisional ballot that must be counted, but existing case law and the constitution makes no distinction on the fee to vote, be it for a ID or the cost one has to pay to get a Birth Certificate to get one. I submit that if the sole purpose of these laws is to prevent fraud then they would be totally free and the voter registration would be the ID, rather than the requirement for one to provide additional documentation at cost. It's pretty clear the number of cases of fraud are so small that this is more a solution in serach of a problem rather than the other way around, and still further had it been such an issue why then was it not an issue in 2000, 2002, 2004,2006, 2008,2010? why now? Taking all the politcal points out of it, the fact remains if a person or persons are required to pay a fee for the sole purpose of voting for any reason, then that is a poll tax, and according to my reading the State of Indiana seems to have made provisions for that with the provisional ballot.

It HAS been an issue in prior elections, you just haven't heard about it because it hasn't been trumpeted by the MSM until now. There are 30 million illegal aliens in this country, and ALL of them are able to REGISTER without showing ANY eligibility. When they proceed to vote there is no 'in-person vote fraud' because the registered voter is the one casting the ballot, even though the ballot itself is fraudulent.

The requirement of photo ID will eliminate this massive fraudulent voter pool because the illegal aliens will be unable to obtain said ID.

As I have tried to make clear in my postings Guy, in general I don't have issues with a Voter ID, having said this, my issue is on it's face with the exception of Indiana as I can see, states that require some method of payment to obtain them violate the constitution in doing so. Further, am not so convinced on the voter fraud question, in that it is so bad that it requires the need for Voter ID's. Take Bush v. Gore in 2000 for instance, I seem to recall both sides screaming to anyone who would listen voter fraud , but we seemed to have gotten along just fine for several more elections after that without much interest in the subject. Why now? I guess I would have to ask, as I pointed out earlier as well, if the number if illegals is so high voting, then especially in the state of Arizona, why would they not vote in their own interest , as we do seem to keep voting for candidates that pass laws that are not in their best interest. Again, if the Indiana standard were to apply across the country, then at least to me it would serve a dual purpose, one, it would help to bring peace of mind to those who think there is a fraud issue while at the same time offering a solution to those who are unable or cannot afford an ID.