Video: What Just happened?

Discussion in 'Congress' started by The Paperboy, Oct 4, 2008.

  1. The Paperboy
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    The Paperboy Times Square

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    [youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/exxVZTKq1vA&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/exxVZTKq1vA&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]
     
  2. rayboyusmc
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    rayboyusmc Senior Member

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    Right, your party has been in charge for 7 years, it's broken and it the Dems fault.

    What bullshit.
     
  3. The Paperboy
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    The Paperboy Times Square

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    Democrats have controlled the Senate 4 of the past 7 years. Daschle was Majority Leader in 2001 - 2003. Reid was (is) Majority Leader in 2007 & 2008. Democrats have had full control of Congress for the past two years.

    Fact: The Democratically controlled Congress presided over the greatest economic disaster since the Great Depression.

    Question: What economic bill did the the Democratically Congress pass that Bush vetoed?

    Answer: None

    No wonder the Democratically controlled Congress has even lower approval ratings than Bush.
     
  4. DavidS
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    DavidS Anti-Tea Party Member

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    Interesting. It talks about Democrats controlling Congress, and gives dates... 2004, 2006, etc. Yet it is the Republicans who have controlled Congress from 1995 - 2007. Anything major happen in between then that you Republicans want to point out?

    Oh right, the stock market had 3 major crashes. Internet bubble bursting, post-9/11 stock market crash, and oh wait, yes, housing bubble popping. Two bubbles in an 8-year period have burst with the Republicans in control of Congress.

    And you want to blame the Democrats? Come on!
     
  5. DavidS
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    DavidS Anti-Tea Party Member

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    And how many bills and resolutions have the Republican controlled House of Representatives created?

    Fact: The Republicans had control of the House of Representatives during the most crucial time where some kind of bill or resolution COULD have been passed to stop this. But it wasn't.

    Fact: The President of the United States of America, who is a Republican, has gone on record several times since 2004 and has said that the economy was fundamentally sound.

    Fact: John McCain has said that the economy was fundamentally sound several times. The last time he said it was in September of 2008.

    Fact: The Republicans have done NOTHING, until it was too late, to stave off the economic crisis.
     
  6. The Paperboy
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    The Paperboy Times Square

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    I am not defending Republicans. I am simply pointing out that when, for instance, Nancy Pelosi says the Democrats had "no responsibility" for the economic meltdown she is full of it.

    There is plenty of blame to go around. But so far it does seems to be true that as far as Fannie and Freddie, Democrat fingerprints are all over the place, from blocking new regulations on Fannie and Freddie to having high ranking Democrats as CEOs there.

    On top of that you have Democrat Henry Paulsen, our Treasury Secretary, who contributed to the problem when he was CEO of Goldman Sachs.

    From today's NY Times:

    On that bright spring afternoon, the five members of the Securities and Exchange Commission met in a basement hearing room to consider an urgent plea by the big investment banks.

    They wanted an exemption for their brokerage units from an old regulation that limited the amount of debt they could take on. The exemption would unshackle billions of dollars held in reserve as a cushion against losses on their investments. Those funds could then flow up to the parent company, enabling it to invest in the fast-growing but opaque world of mortgage-backed securities; credit derivatives, a form of insurance for bond holders; and other exotic instruments.

    The five investment banks led the charge, including Goldman Sachs, which was headed by Henry M. Paulson Jr. Two years later, he left to become Treasury secretary.


    Full Story here
     
  7. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Some of you Republican loyals really need to take a course on the rules of evidence or how to understand the difference between a substanted charge and one which is is nothing more than an assetion without any evidence to support it

    Fannie Me and Freddy Mac are NOT the originators of bank loans. They are the secondary market for loans that were written by some other banks or financing corporation.

    Do you understand that?

    To the extent that Freddie and Fannie have responsibility in this fiasco, it was their willingness to create and then accept of "conforming" mortgages (NINA VARS) that were wildly speculative and ill advised. But they were motivated to do so because the return on those was VERY high, too. Nobody put a GUN to those organziations heads to MAKE them do this, folks.

    They then assumed these NINA VAR mortgages from banks and then bundled those mortgages into bonds.

    They bought 25% of all the bad paper, and other (ALSO) private banks bought the other 75% of this crappy paper.


    Now, the real problem is that they (and the other private banks) ALSO were responsible for pressuring the rating agencies to understate the REAL risks asociated with these NINA backed bonds.

    So...included the list of organizations responsible for this mess we have:

    1. The people tooo damned stupid to understand they couldnt' afford those mortgage payments when their adjustable mortgages when upm, and the gamers (real estate flippers, in other words) of this system who KNEW they'd walk from the properties if the market changed; AND

    2.. The private banks which happily originated these mortgages, knowing full welll they weren't keeping those in their own portfolios; AND

    3. The private banks (including Fannie and Freddie) which bundled those mortages to sell them as Bonds and who ALSO pressured the RATING AGENCIES TO LIE about the inhernet risk assoicated with them should the real estate market bubble burst; AND

    4. The Bond purchasers who ALSO knew (or who SHOULD HAVE KNOWN) that those bonds were predicated on the risks associated with that bubble, but who were motivated (by higher interest rates promised for those bonds) to buy them ANYWAY.

    So what we have here is a collosal SNAFU of professional investors and bankers, ALL of whom should have known better, and a group of homebuyers who ALSO should have known better, ALL OF THEM working separately but in toxic synergy to completely screw the market all to hell.

    Is the leadership of the Democratic party ALSO responsible in that they asked Fannie and Freddie to loosen up their mortage requirements?

    You bet!

    How about the leadership of the Republican party which ALSO knew the disaster was unfolding and who DID control Congress at the time and who could have effected the out? Are they responsible for this mess ?

    Yes, they're EQUALLY culpable.

    I'm sorry that you partisans are so blinded by your own assinine prejudices that you can't see this for what it really is.

    But wishing, as most of you are, that you can lay the blame for this disaster on one party (or one race of people) or just the home-purchasers who were damned fools, or those who were gaming the system, is...how can I say this without being offensive?

    fucking ignorant.

    Face it folks, the MASTERS OF OUR UNIVERSE have screwed up royally this time, just as they did during the saving and loan disaster, just as they did in 1929, too.

    GREED, which is what motivated most of these folks created this tragedy of the commons.

    GREED is typically the root cause of most of these kinds of disasters to the commonweal.
     
  8. The Paperboy
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    The Paperboy Times Square

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    I did not read past this sentence because it demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of what Fannie Mae does. I suggest you look up the word "guarantee" in a dictionary.
     
  9. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    If cheap money wasn't made available in the first place, the greedy would have had nothing to play with.
     
  10. jschuck12001
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    jschuck12001 Senior Member

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    NINA was never a conforming product, it was a non conforming product backed by private investors. Sounds like you needs to do a little homework yourself.
     
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