Veterans are being told to pay back bonuses..........

[ABikerSailor]

HEY YOU STUPID MORONS, CONGRESS CAN END THIS SHIT BUT THEY'RE NOT...SO STOP BLAMING EVERYBODY AND BLAME THAT DO NOTHING EFFIN CONGRESS YOU DUMB FUCKS VOTED IN......YOU PEOPLE ARE SUCH FUCKIN OBAMA HATERS AND WHINERS...GET A FUCKIN LIFE!!

Maybe you are not aware of this but the Congress is not currently in session. Should the president call a special session when he could just tell Secretary of Defense, who works for him to suspend collection.

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but the SECDEF is already on this and has been since Monday.

Again................why should Obama order the SECDEF to do something he's already doing?

Big woop, since Monday. How long has this been going on?

It just hit the airwaves on Thursday or Friday I think. I saw it on the news on the day I started this thread, which was Monday.

I didn't ask how long it has been in the news, I asked how long has it been going on.

You're not gonna like the answer.................

The program was started by Jr's SECDEF, and ran from 2006 to 2008 because they had serious retention problems because people were getting tired of deploying to the ME, so they were opting to get out.

One of the problems with this program that I can see is the way they paid the bonuses to the soldiers. When I was in the Navy, reenlistment bonuses (SRB's) were calculated, and half of the money was paid on the date of reenlistment, the remaining half was divided by the number of years the person reenlisted for and the SRB was cut into equal payments that were paid on the anniversary date of reenlistment. The way they authorized these bonuses was to pay them in full up front on the day of reenlistment (mistake).

So, the program has been in place for over 10 years.

What I'd like to know, is who is the person that did the research and found out that there may have been erroneous payments, as well as I'd like to know why they started the research, and the date they found out they might have been in error. Unfortunately, we don't have any of that information (yet).

But blaming Obama for it is just stupid. The president although he's CIC, he's not involved in the day to day bureaucracy and paperwork that determines SRB eligibility.

SECDEF is.

 

[tigerred59]

HEY YOU STUPID MORONS, CONGRESS CAN END THIS SHIT BUT THEY'RE NOT...SO STOP BLAMING EVERYBODY AND BLAME THAT DO NOTHING EFFIN CONGRESS YOU DUMB FUCKS VOTED IN......YOU PEOPLE ARE SUCH FUCKIN OBAMA HATERS AND WHINERS...GET A FUCKIN LIFE!!

Maybe you are not aware of this but the Congress is not currently in session. Should the president call a special session when he could just tell Secretary of Defense, who works for him to suspend collection.

Pentagon Halts Effort To Take Back Signing Bonuses Paid To National Guard Members
NPR‎ - 8 hours ago

 

[Southern Dad]

Maybe you are not aware of this but the Congress is not currently in session. Should the president call a special session when he could just tell Secretary of Defense, who works for him to suspend collection.

Pentagon Halts Effort To Take Back Signing Bonuses Paid To National Guard Members
NPR‎ - 8 hours ago[/QUOTE]

See how easy that was? The Pentagon works for whom? Oh right, President Obama. Why did it take this hitting the newspapers before Barack H Obama heard about it?

 

[charwin95]

HEY YOU STUPID MORONS, CONGRESS CAN END THIS SHIT BUT THEY'RE NOT...SO STOP BLAMING EVERYBODY AND BLAME THAT DO NOTHING EFFIN CONGRESS YOU DUMB FUCKS VOTED IN......YOU PEOPLE ARE SUCH FUCKIN OBAMA HATERS AND WHINERS...GET A FUCKIN LIFE!!

Maybe you are not aware of this but the Congress is not currently in session. Should the president call a special session when he could just tell Secretary of Defense, who works for him to suspend collection.

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but the SECDEF is already on this and has been since Monday.

Again................why should Obama order the SECDEF to do something he's already doing?

Big woop, since Monday. How long has this been going on?

I deal with injured veterans and active military personnel so I have the opportunity to hear a lot of these BS regularly. These bonuses started around 2010 some with especially received as much as $25k.
This repayment issue has been going on for a least over a year but congress didn't do anything. Why? I didn't get any answer. Some veterans already has repaid these bonuses. Defense Sec. Carter had the legal power to forgive all these debt without congress or the president.

 

[Southern Dad]

I deal with injured veterans and active military personnel so I have the opportunity to hear a lot of these BS regularly. These bonuses started around 2010 some with especially received as much as $25k.
This repayment issue has been going on for a least over a year but congress didn't do anything. Why? I didn't get any answer. Some veterans already has repaid these bonuses. Defense Sec. Carter had the legal power to forgive all these debt without congress or the president.

You may not know this but the Congress doesn't decide how much a service member will receive in a bonus for reenlisting. That is the Department of Defense. This isn't Congress that did this. What should they do write a law saying that these bonuses shouldn't be repaid? Why is that law necessary? Department of Defense gave the bonuses. They should do the right thing and write them off. It does not take an act of congress.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

You know, I hear a bunch of people on this thread bitching about the soldiers who got the bonuses and accusing them of fraud.

Got news for you................reenlistment bonuses are pretty hard to commit fraud with, at least in the Navy. I was a Personnelman for over 20 years, and reenlistments, as well as getting the servicemember all their bennies they are eligible for was part of my job.

Here's how a reenlistment worked for the time that I was in...................

A member decides that for whatever reason, they want to reenlist. First, they get a special request chit, and put on it "request permission to reenlist for "_" years in the U.S. Navy". That chit is submitted up the chain of command all the way to the CO, and if approved, the chit is sent to the CCC (Command Career Counselor).

The CCC then consults with the admin office to find out what they are eligible for. After checking the current instruction for reenlistment bonuses, if the person is eligible, the amount is calculated and the paperwork is prepared.

Disbursing then gets the paperwork, re-checks the math for the bonus amount, as well as the instruction to make sure they are eligible and a check is cut.

On the day of the reenlistment, the servicemember is sworn in, signs the new enlistment contract, and then, the bonus check is presented for 1/2 of the total reenlistment bonus, with the remainder divided up and paid on the anniversary date of the enlistment that qualified for the bonus.

No, not only does the Personnel office check it, but the Disbursing office checks it as well, and BOTH offices verify it against the current instruction that came down from SECNAV (Secretary of the Navy).

If they were paid bonuses in error, it's not the fault of the member (they were told they were eligible), nor is it the fault of the Personnel office that paid the bonus (they followed the eligibility guidelines in the instruction authorizing it, usually updated every fiscal year or so). It is the fault of the higher ups that authorized it in the first place.

And waiting over 10 years to find out you paid them in error is a bit long to wait. The statute of limitations on most debts is anywhere from 4 to 10 years (depending on state), and since it's been over 10, they should be given a waiver and get to keep the money.

Not a bunch of people. Just one asshole by my count. And there is such a lack of leadership in this country, everyone is pointing the finger at someone else. Since collecting this money is optional, you would think the HNIC you voted for would simply instruct the DOD to stop this. But he doesn't.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Is there no curiosity as to why only California veterans are being punished?

The reenlistment bonus only applied to certain classifications. Only in California were all veterans promised a reenlistment bonus. The other states never made that promise.

I brought this point up earlier to some leftist who didn't think California was involved in all this.

 

[charwin95]

I deal with injured veterans and active military personnel so I have the opportunity to hear a lot of these BS regularly. These bonuses started around 2010 some with especially received as much as $25k.
This repayment issue has been going on for a least over a year but congress didn't do anything. Why? I didn't get any answer. Some veterans already has repaid these bonuses. Defense Sec. Carter had the legal power to forgive all these debt without congress or the president.

You may not know this but the Congress doesn't decide how much a service member will receive in a bonus for reenlisting. That is the Department of Defense. This isn't Congress that did this. What should they do write a law saying that these bonuses shouldn't be repaid? Why is that law necessary? Department of Defense gave the bonuses. They should do the right thing and write them off. It does not take an act of congress.

That is true but these bonuses was approved by congress. Actually they are doing something right now.

Congress knew for at least two years about Pentagon efforts to take back bonuses from veterans

Congress knew for at least two years about Pentagon efforts to take back bonuses from veterans
After he fought for the country, the U.S. is asking him to give back his enlistment bonus

Short of troops to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan a decade ago, the California National Guard enticed thousands of soldiers with bonuses. Now the Pentagon is demanding the money back. (Al Seib / Los Angeles Times)
David S. Cloud and Sarah D. Wire

The California National Guard told the state’s members of Congress two years ago that the Pentagon was trying to claw back reenlistment bonuses from thousands of soldiers, and even offered a proposal to mitigate the problem, but Congress took no action, according to a senior National Guard official.

The official added that improper bonuses had been paid to National Guard members in every state, raising the possibility that many more soldiers may owe large debts to the Pentagon.


“This is a national issue and affects all states,” Andreas Mueller, the chief of federal policy for the California Guard, wrote in an email to the state’s congressional delegation Monday. Attention had focused on California because it was “the only state that audited” bonus payments at the height of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, he added.

In the email, Mueller reminded members of Congress that the Guard had informed them about the issue two years ago. Whether members of Congress understood the scope of the problem at the time is unclear.

The Times reported Saturday that the Pentagon has been demanding repayment of enlistment bonuses — which often reached $15,000 or more — from thousands of California Guard soldiers, many of whom had served multiple combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Audits completed last month concluded that 9,700 California Guard members were not entitled to the payments or that there had been errors in their paperwork.

ADVERTISING


Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses a decade after going to war
Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses a decade after going to war
Pentagon officials acknowledged Monday that the problem probably extends beyond California.

“We know that the majority [of cases] is out of California. However, there may be other states involved,” said Laura Ochoa, a Pentagon spokeswoman. “We do not have a list of those states at this time.”


“The senior leadership of the department is looking very closely at this matter,” Ochoa said. “We take doing right by our service members very seriously.”

The possibility that more soldiers will have to repay large bonuses paid years ago, when the Pentagon relied heavily on the Guard to supply troops for two wars, may increase pressure on Congress to act.

In an interview, Mueller said a provision in a defense bill that has passed the House would have cured at least part of the problem by establishing a 10-year limit on how long the Pentagon could recover bonuses that had been paid improperly.

Final passage of that provision had been uncertain because of the money it would cost. Now, Congress may decide to go further.

On Monday, House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi sent a letter to Speaker Paul D. Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell saying that Congress should pass legislation to halt the Pentagon debt recovery “as soon as we gavel back into session” after the Nov. 8 election.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yanno...............in my way of thinking this is simple.....................

The government from 2006 to 2008 offered to pay a starting rate of 15,000 (for the average grunt) to much more (depending on your specialty) for you to serve in a war zone.

The second you put your boots on the ground in a war zone, knowing that you're going to be there for at least 6 months, you've earned your bonus.

Tell me how many of you civilians are willing to risk your ass and possibly death for 15,000 dollars for an enlistment that would be at least 3 years?

And that might include up to 4 deployments to a place where others might want to kill you.

 

[Southern Dad]

That is true but these bonuses was approved by congress.

Okay, back that up with the bill that was passed that authorized these bonuses. The Congress does not approve bonuses for the military. The Congress approves a budget for the Department of Defense. The executive branch then spends it. Of course, the last time that we actually had an approved budget was what year? It wasn't during this president's term.

 

[TooTall]

Maybe you are not aware of this but the Congress is not currently in session. Should the president call a special session when he could just tell Secretary of Defense, who works for him to suspend collection.

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but the SECDEF is already on this and has been since Monday.

Again................why should Obama order the SECDEF to do something he's already doing?

Big woop, since Monday. How long has this been going on?

It just hit the airwaves on Thursday or Friday I think. I saw it on the news on the day I started this thread, which was Monday.

I didn't ask how long it has been in the news, I asked how long has it been going on.

You're not gonna like the answer.................

The program was started by Jr's SECDEF, and ran from 2006 to 2008 because they had serious retention problems because people were getting tired of deploying to the ME, so they were opting to get out.

One of the problems with this program that I can see is the way they paid the bonuses to the soldiers. When I was in the Navy, reenlistment bonuses (SRB's) were calculated, and half of the money was paid on the date of reenlistment, the remaining half was divided by the number of years the person reenlisted for and the SRB was cut into equal payments that were paid on the anniversary date of reenlistment. The way they authorized these bonuses was to pay them in full up front on the day of reenlistment (mistake).

So, the program has been in place for over 10 years.

What I'd like to know, is who is the person that did the research and found out that there may have been erroneous payments, as well as I'd like to know why they started the research, and the date they found out they might have been in error. Unfortunately, we don't have any of that information (yet).

But blaming Obama for it is just stupid. The president although he's CIC, he's not involved in the day to day bureaucracy and paperwork that determines SRB eligibility.

SECDEF is.

I like the fact that the Bush's SECDEF solved the retention problem. You have asked some good questions, but I want to know who administered the program. The DOD or the State National Guard. You seem to want to blame Bush's SECDEF for starting the program but don't blame Obama's SECDEF's for the last 8 years for not addressing the problem.

 

[charwin95]

That is true but these bonuses was approved by congress.

Okay, back that up with the bill that was passed that authorized these bonuses. The Congress does not approve bonuses for the military. The Congress approves a budget for the Department of Defense. The executive branch then spends it. Of course, the last time that we actually had an approved budget was what year? It wasn't during this president's term.

My information was based from the veteran that I was talking the other day. To found out he doesn't know much. Accompanied by too much red wine on my part.
So I take that back......... my fault. You are right the congress does not approve bonuses for the military.

 

[tigerred59]

I deal with injured veterans and active military personnel so I have the opportunity to hear a lot of these BS regularly. These bonuses started around 2010 some with especially received as much as $25k.
This repayment issue has been going on for a least over a year but congress didn't do anything. Why? I didn't get any answer. Some veterans already has repaid these bonuses. Defense Sec. Carter had the legal power to forgive all these debt without congress or the president.

You may not know this but the Congress doesn't decide how much a service member will receive in a bonus for reenlisting. That is the Department of Defense. This isn't Congress that did this. What should they do write a law saying that these bonuses shouldn't be repaid? Why is that law necessary? Department of Defense gave the bonuses. They should do the right thing and write them off. It does not take an act of congress.

......and yet they're all using this for re election purposes...so who's using who?

 

[ogibillm]

some didn't complete their contracts. some weren't eligible to begin with.

but there was an e8 at state in the ca guard that could solely approve and pay bonuses.

does anyone think she was doing that for just anyone?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but the SECDEF is already on this and has been since Monday.

Again................why should Obama order the SECDEF to do something he's already doing?

Big woop, since Monday. How long has this been going on?

It just hit the airwaves on Thursday or Friday I think. I saw it on the news on the day I started this thread, which was Monday.

I didn't ask how long it has been in the news, I asked how long has it been going on.

You're not gonna like the answer.................

The program was started by Jr's SECDEF, and ran from 2006 to 2008 because they had serious retention problems because people were getting tired of deploying to the ME, so they were opting to get out.

One of the problems with this program that I can see is the way they paid the bonuses to the soldiers. When I was in the Navy, reenlistment bonuses (SRB's) were calculated, and half of the money was paid on the date of reenlistment, the remaining half was divided by the number of years the person reenlisted for and the SRB was cut into equal payments that were paid on the anniversary date of reenlistment. The way they authorized these bonuses was to pay them in full up front on the day of reenlistment (mistake).

So, the program has been in place for over 10 years.

What I'd like to know, is who is the person that did the research and found out that there may have been erroneous payments, as well as I'd like to know why they started the research, and the date they found out they might have been in error. Unfortunately, we don't have any of that information (yet).

But blaming Obama for it is just stupid. The president although he's CIC, he's not involved in the day to day bureaucracy and paperwork that determines SRB eligibility.

SECDEF is.

I like the fact that the Bush's SECDEF solved the retention problem. You have asked some good questions, but I want to know who administered the program. The DOD or the State National Guard. You seem to want to blame Bush's SECDEF for starting the program but don't blame Obama's SECDEF's for the last 8 years for not addressing the problem.

Well, according to the National Guard page, their funding comes primarily from the parent service and federal funds, with some (not all) states funding part of it themselves. So, if I was to guess, it was the DOD that administered the program.

As far as blaming Jr.'s SECDEF? Well, the program only ran from 2006 until 2008, meaning it was over before Obama took office.

As far as it taking them 10 years to find? I'd like to know that as well. If you want my personal opinion, it sounds like someone was doing an audit on old records before they were destroyed and found the mistake, which would explain the time lag for bringing it to anyone's attention.

Incidentally, some are reporting that Congress knew about this 2 years ago.

Officials say Congress knew 2 years ago that soldiers were mistakenly paid huge bonuses they would have to pay back later

Congress Knew for 2 Years About Efforts to Take Back Veteran Bonuses | Military.com

 

[Syriusly]

Of all the people to fuck . . .

Disgusting!

I'm not sure anyone is getting screwed here.

seems like they didn't deserve the bonuses to begin with but someone at the state level was pushing them through fraudulently - screwing over everyone else

I bet they all knew they were not eligible for the bonuses and took it anyway. This is the national guard from what the link says.

"The Pentagon is seeking to recover decade-old reenlistment bonuses paid to thousands of California Army National Guard soldiers to go fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Los Angeles Times reported Saturday."

I'm trying to figure out why dont they go after the state instead of the people? Of course the state is going to go after them then.

Maybe Congress will finally find something that they can agree on.

There is no way this should be allowed to stand.

why? they were not entitled to the bonuses

They were told that they were- and re-enlisted with that promise. The recruiters who made the promise were the ones who defrauded the United States- but the soldiers who enlisted acted honorably and should keep the money.

 

[Syriusly]

HEY YOU STUPID MORONS, CONGRESS CAN END THIS SHIT BUT THEY'RE NOT...SO STOP BLAMING EVERYBODY AND BLAME THAT DO NOTHING EFFIN CONGRESS YOU DUMB FUCKS VOTED IN......YOU PEOPLE ARE SUCH FUCKIN OBAMA HATERS AND WHINERS...GET A FUCKIN LIFE!!

Maybe you are not aware of this but the Congress is not currently in session. Should the president call a special session when he could just tell Secretary of Defense, who works for him to suspend collection.

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but the SECDEF is already on this and has been since Monday.

Again................why should Obama order the SECDEF to do something he's already doing?

Big woop, since Monday. How long has this been going on?

The National Guard has been asking Congress to act on this for 2 years now.

 

[Southern Dad]

The National Guard has been asking Congress to act on this for 2 years now.

It's not the Congress' position to act on this. This is an Executive Branch matter not a Legislative. The bonuses were paid by the Department of Defense. They are the ones trying to collect it back. Now the Congress can pass a bill saying that the Department of Defense cannot recover the money but of course, the President will have to sign it. But this matter is an Executive Branch mess. Congress does not issue bonuses to service members.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The National Guard has been asking Congress to act on this for 2 years now.

It's not the Congress' position to act on this. This is an Executive Branch matter not a Legislative. The bonuses were paid by the Department of Defense. They are the ones trying to collect it back. Now the Congress can pass a bill saying that the Department of Defense cannot recover the money but of course, the President will have to sign it. But this matter is an Executive Branch mess. Congress does not issue bonuses to service members.

Actually, Congress passes the defense budget for whatever amount they think they are needing, and distribute it between the services.

Incidentally, the Marines receive the least amount of any other service.

It is then up to a committee of higher ups to determine if they need to offer bonuses to the various specialties or services, and the amount they think it would take to entice them to stay in. They determine the amount for each specialty, and then pass it up the chain of command to whichever secretary (in my case it was SECNAV, Secretary of the Navy) is in charge of their service, and they sign the authorization.

The person that is accountable, and can therefore forgive the debt isn't the president, it's the secretary of that particular service (in this case, the Secretary of the Army).

 

[ogibillm]

Of all the people to fuck . . .

Disgusting!

I'm not sure anyone is getting screwed here.

seems like they didn't deserve the bonuses to begin with but someone at the state level was pushing them through fraudulently - screwing over everyone else

I bet they all knew they were not eligible for the bonuses and took it anyway. This is the national guard from what the link says.

"The Pentagon is seeking to recover decade-old reenlistment bonuses paid to thousands of California Army National Guard soldiers to go fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Los Angeles Times reported Saturday."

I'm trying to figure out why dont they go after the state instead of the people? Of course the state is going to go after them then.

Maybe Congress will finally find something that they can agree on.

There is no way this should be allowed to stand.

why? they were not entitled to the bonuses

They were told that they were- and re-enlisted with that promise. The recruiters who made the promise were the ones who defrauded the United States- but the soldiers who enlisted acted honorably and should keep the money.

not all. maybe not even most