US plans water heater standards, says they will "save" consumers $11 billion

[Dekster]

Can't wait. Cold showers for the rest of my life.

Fortunately, by 2029, we could have a president who has some common freaking sense.

 

[Dekster]

I produce hot H2O via a wood boiler, the more wood i huck around, the hotter my water is

~S~

Do you use it as a furnace too? I know someone who has one who loves those outdoor thingies. Of course, they own a logging company too so it isn't like they have to pay for all the wood they use.

 

[odanny]

How much does a tankless water heater cost, especially when I have a perfectly good electric water heater in my home?

Mine cost $1700, worth every penny. You set the water temp at 120, it's 120. You want to take a shower for an hour, you can do that,

 

[odanny]

You did not read his reply. He said electric!

So it uses electricty instead of gas, which is more expensive.

 

[Dekster]

Funny how the tankless buzz died

I know a guy who sells and installs them. He said don't bother. I mean when your dealer says not to, you probably shouldn't. More specifically, he said that they were okay on new construction but with existing homes, the cost is usually way too high by the time you buy and have an electrician and a plumber come in to do their things.

 

[sparky]

Do you use it as a furnace too?

as a backup....

I know someone who has one who loves those outdoor thingies.

well, this is the indoor version.....far more efficient

~S~

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Mine cost $1700, worth every penny. You set the water temp at 120, it's 120. You want to take a shower for an hour, you can do that,

I guess I am just not as dirty as you. I shower in about 3 minutes!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So it uses electricty instead of gas, which is more expensive.

Gas is supposed to be hazardous because it produces CO2.

 

[elektra]

Solar is a good option where feasible as well. Prewarming tanks are helpful as well.

I had a solar hot water heater in southern california, great in the summer, in the winter it regulated the water to cold.

Solar sucks.

 

[elektra]

we need cheap energy, not expensive products

 

[Woodznutz]

we need cheap energy, not expensive products

Conservation helps as well.

 

[elektra]

Conservation helps as well.

we been conserving since Carter became president, now it is time for cheap electricity

 

[Libby von H]

WASHINGTON, July 21 (Reuters) - The U.S. Department of Energy on Friday proposed energy efficiency standards on water heaters it said would save consumers $11.4 billion on energy and water bills annually.

The standards on residential water heater efficiency, which are required by Congress, have not been updated in 13 years. Water heating is responsible for roughly 13% of both annual residential energy use and consumer utility costs, the DOE said.

The proposal would require the most common-sized electric water heaters to achieve efficiency gains with heat pump technology and gas-fired water heaters to achieve efficiency gains through condensing technology.

The standards, to take effect in 2029 if finalized, are expected to save nearly $200 billion and reduce more than 500 million metric tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions over 30 years, about equal to the combined annual emissions of 63 million homes, or approximately 50% of homes in the United States, the DOE said.

Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm said the proposal "builds on the unprecedented actions already taken by this administration to lower energy costs for working families."

A group including water heater maker Rheem, environmental group Natural Resources Defense Council and efficiency and consumer advocacy organizations issued a joint statement welcoming the new standards.

US plans water heater standards, says they will save consumers $11 billion

The U.S. Department of Energy on Friday proposed energy efficiency standards on water heaters it said would save consumers $11.4 billion on energy and water bills annually.

www.reuters.com

Oh shit, the dreaded "I'm from the government and I'm here to help".....Is there anything that the enviro-wackos won't come after?

So water heaters will now cost $5000 each installed to meet .gov regulations? I guess we are supposed to enjoy our -400% "savings"?

I guess I need to go ahead and get me a "pre-ban" water heater as mine, while working just fine, is nearing the end of it's life span.

You mean, like the offshore windmills, costing -- well, let's get a solid citation here : “Offshore Wind remains difficult this year with losses of roughly $1 billion,” Chief Executive Officer Larry Culp said during a conference call with analysts Tuesday.

Biden was so proud of this, thought it would shame all opponents of his green economy. What a moron

 

[HeyNorm]

They use a lot of gas keeping 60 gallons of water over 120 degrees, 24 hours a day. My water heater only heats the water when I turn on the tap, the rest of the time, no natural gas or electricity is spent keeping a tank of water hot.

I have very hard water and have never had a water softener. My tankless works amazingly well, and if I want to take a shower for an hour, I'll never run out of hot water,

60 gallon? Holy crap!

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

They use a lot of gas keeping 60 gallons of water over 120 degrees, 24 hours a day. My water heater only heats the water when I turn on the tap, the rest of the time, no natural gas

Quantify "a lot."

Preferably in terms of dollars per month.

If you "save" $10 per month, how long does it take for a $1700 tankless water heater to pay for itself?

 

[odanny]

Quantify "a lot."

Preferably in terms of dollars per month.

If you "save" $10 per month, how long does it take for a $1700 tankless water heater to pay for itself?

There are other advantages than just using less energy:

1) They take up much less space, and are wall mounted.

2) The temperature of the water can be set to your preference, and it is accurate. I can set mine where I don't have to turn on the cold water in the shower if that's what I want.

3) They don't continually have to keep a tank of water hot. Do you set your tank to "vacation" when you are gone? Most people don't. No worries for me. This is energy savings, 24 hours a day.

I don't care it is more expensive, it is worth the additional cost to me, and I also don't care exactly how much money I'm saving, for the reasons above.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I haven’t read the proposals, but I presume they do not require anybody ripping out their old water heater, but just mandate that new heaters use the new technology.

So when calculating the “cost” of a new heater and figuring when you would make your money back, you gotta subtract the cost of replacing an old heater … with another old one.

Also, at first I recall lots of people, including Trump, were totally dismissive of new halogen and LED bulb requirements. I also complained at first they were expensive as hell, not available in enough sizes, often too big (halogens) and sometimes not too reliable! But after a decade they — at least to me — have proven their value. They consume much fewer watts to produce much more light, are often much smaller in size, and produce far less heat. They are dimmable, and more reasonably priced than ever. Probably will continue to improve. Many can even have their “color” controlled. What’s not to like about them now?

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

There are other advantages than just using less energy:

1) They take up much less space, and are wall mounted.

2) The temperature of the water can be set to your preference, and it is accurate. I can set mine where I don't have to turn on the cold water in the shower if that's what I want.

Fine if that appeals to you.

3) They don't continually have to keep a tank of water hot. Do you set your tank to "vacation" when you are gone? Most people don't. No worries for me. This is energy savings, 24 hours a day.

I've yet to see any quantification of standby losses. I am not convinced they are so large. My electric water heater measures about 1 deg F warmer than ambient temperature using my digital thermometer, but I can't perceive any difference with my hand. No, I don't turn my water heater off when I go on vacation.

On a gas water heater, there is a pilot light, but that probably isn't squat in terms of $/month.

And in the Winter, all standby losses heat one's home anyway.

I suppose the biggest benefit of a tankless heater for some people with large demand for hot water is that they don't ever run out of hat water. I have one family member who likes to empty the tank with a long shower.

For even better efficiency and less losses, instead of a whole house tankess water heater, they do make them for every spigot. This way the water does not get wasted in long plumbing lines (Don't tell Biden). Of course, it costs so much more to have a heater at every faucet, but you get instant and endless hot water with no standby losses and no hot water wasted in a long pipe.

I'd consider a tankless if I thought they were cheaper overall. I am tempted to buy and store an older style conventional tank heater to replace mine, even though I don't need one yet, since they are still available, cheap, and an easy replacement.

My experience is that higher efficiency appliances don't really pay for themselves. My new heat pump was $8k and is 50% more efficient than the one it replaced. It saves me less than $50 per month. Payback time is very long.

 

[Jarlaxle]

How much does a tankless water heater cost, especially when I have a perfectly good electric water heater in my home?

When my mother replaced her electric water heater with tankless LP, her electric bill dropped by not quite HALF. Yes, the water heater used half the power to the house! It paid for itself in about a year.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I guess I am just not as dirty as you. I shower in about 3 minutes!

Endless hot water is nice when...say, you have three people showering, a dishwasher running, and laundry washing in a couple hours. I had it (heated by my furnace boiler) and miss it. If my wife washes her long hair, there's no hot water left and her final rinse is, at best, lukewarm-and that is with her shutting off the water if not actually using it.