US Markets Soar While Europe Depresses

[Annie]

Are both acting the way they should? Are there no connections?

The info on US can be found at Yahoo! front page or by googling DOW close.

Now on Europe:

Gloom, anger spreads as European economies teeter - Yahoo! Finance

Gloom, anger spreads as European economies teeter
Gloom, anger, fear spread across Europe as key economies teeter on the edge of collapse
Alan Clendenning and Shawn Pogatchnik, Associated Press, On Wednesday November 24, 2010, 4:51 pm

DUBLIN (AP) -- Anger and fear about Europe's seemingly unstoppable debt crisis coursed through the continent Wednesday. Striking workers shut down much of Portugal, Ireland proposed its deepest budget cuts in history and seething Italian and British students clashed with police over education cuts.

Amid it all, analysts were deeply skeptical about the future -- saying even the desperate efforts of governments, the European Union and the International Monetary might not be enough to prevent countries from defaulting or banks from going under.

The Irish Stock Exchange saw a bloodbath in bank stocks as investors pushed the panic button and bond traders were betting that it would only be a matter of time before Portugal and possibly Spain would be the next countries begging for outside help.

In Lisbon, strikers all but closed the airport, stranding passengers who couldn't get in or out of the country...

 

[uscitizen]

Ahh the old if it is good for Wall Street it is good for America mentality that was a major contributor to our downfall.

 

[Annie]

Ahh the old if it is good for Wall Street it is good for America mentality that was a major contributor to our downfall.

Yeah. Kind of reminds me of when US ended Dawes Act payments after 1929.

 

[Samson]

Ahh the old if it is good for Wall Street it is good for America mentality that was a major contributor to our downfall.

The Government invented the 401(k) as a differed tax shelter.

 

[uscitizen]

At the behest of Wall St. Lobbyists.

And with taxes going to go up how is that deferred tax thing going to work out?

 

[Samson]

Are both acting the way they should? Are there no connections?

The info on US can be found at Yahoo! front page or by googling DOW close.

Now on Europe:

Gloom, anger spreads as European economies teeter - Yahoo! Finance

Gloom, anger spreads as European economies teeter
Gloom, anger, fear spread across Europe as key economies teeter on the edge of collapse
Alan Clendenning and Shawn Pogatchnik, Associated Press, On Wednesday November 24, 2010, 4:51 pm

DUBLIN (AP) -- Anger and fear about Europe's seemingly unstoppable debt crisis coursed through the continent Wednesday. Striking workers shut down much of Portugal, Ireland proposed its deepest budget cuts in history and seething Italian and British students clashed with police over education cuts.

Amid it all, analysts were deeply skeptical about the future -- saying even the desperate efforts of governments, the European Union and the International Monetary might not be enough to prevent countries from defaulting or banks from going under.

The Irish Stock Exchange saw a bloodbath in bank stocks as investors pushed the panic button and bond traders were betting that it would only be a matter of time before Portugal and possibly Spain would be the next countries begging for outside help.

In Lisbon, strikers all but closed the airport, stranding passengers who couldn't get in or out of the country...

Damn, you mean, there's no free lunch?

It just doesn't seem fair that Italians won't be able to go to school until they're 30, graduate and get to vacation the entire month of August for each of 28 years until they retire at age 58, and enjoy socialized medical care.

 

[Samson]

At the behest of Wall St. Lobbyists.

And with taxes going to go up how is that deferred tax thing going to work out?

Well, taxes are only going up for "the rich."

Happily, I'm planning a retirement of destitute poverty,

 

[william the wie]

Well there are two conflicting forces:

The welfare state model with its implicit assumptions about life expectancy and health that is driving automation and undermining the industrial employment base.

The progress model with the US being the symbol of that driving the product life cycle of medical progress that is undermining the finances of the welfare state.

 

[asterism]

"The Market" as espoused by Adam Smith isn't the DOW, NYSE, S&P, CBOT, or the NASDAQ.

 

[asterism]

At the behest of Wall St. Lobbyists.

And with taxes going to go up how is that deferred tax thing going to work out?

Well, taxes are only going up for "the rich."

Happily, I'm planning a retirement of destitute poverty,

Make sure you can eat and make sure they can't take your house. The rest is gravy.

 

[52ndStreet]

The Euro is overvalued. Ireland and Greece, just got bailed out. Portugal, Spain and Italy will be next.
The PIGS countries are on the verge of economic collasp.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

It is crazy.
The Dow should be around 8000 at best.
It is completely out of touch with anything other than a means for those pumping it up and down to ejaculate money for themselves.

 

[Annie]

It is crazy.
The Dow should be around 8000 at best.
It is completely out of touch with anything other than a means for those pumping it up and down to ejaculate money for themselves.

Just speaking about this with a friend, her husband is a high honcho with Chicago Merc. This is very reminiscent of 5/09. If you weren't out in time, you were screwed. Way too overvalued.

 

[Sallow]

It is crazy.
The Dow should be around 8000 at best.
It is completely out of touch with anything other than a means for those pumping it up and down to ejaculate money for themselves.

Not really.

Companies are seeing huge profits. And they've parked low interest loans in their coffers. What's happening now is they have a very scared work force willing to shoulder what ever comes at them to remain productive (like working overtime without overtime pay). IMHO there are many shops not hiring because they want to force regulations to go out the window.

 

[Annie]

It is crazy.
The Dow should be around 8000 at best.
It is completely out of touch with anything other than a means for those pumping it up and down to ejaculate money for themselves.

Not really.

Companies are seeing huge profits. And they've parked low interest loans in their coffers. What's happening now is they have a very scared work force willing to shoulder what ever comes at them to remain productive (like working overtime without overtime pay). IMHO there are many shops not hiring because they want to force regulations to go out the window.

Really, which companies are seeing huge profits? You have links to the loans, not yet taken from the sounds of it? Regarding your opinion, you have something to back it up, other than your 'gut'?

From where I sit, on the underemployed side, it seems that business in general is frightened to take any steps that might lock them into costs they cannot absorb. They are scared shitless-including government funded. Why I say 'government?' Teaching. Local revenues are drastically down and have been for close to 3 years. No way are referendums passing, so?

 

[loosecannon]

It is crazy.
The Dow should be around 8000 at best.
It is completely out of touch with anything other than a means for those pumping it up and down to ejaculate money for themselves.

One of the best metaphors I have read in a long time.

Once upon a time wall street actually was the engine that created industry. Those days are gone forever.

 

[loosecannon]

It is crazy.
The Dow should be around 8000 at best.
It is completely out of touch with anything other than a means for those pumping it up and down to ejaculate money for themselves.

Not really.

Companies are seeing huge profits. And they've parked low interest loans in their coffers. What's happening now is they have a very scared work force willing to shoulder what ever comes at them to remain productive (like working overtime without overtime pay). IMHO there are many shops not hiring because they want to force regulations to go out the window.

No, really.

Companies are reaping huge profits because they have downsized to their most profitable plateau and are not investing anything into the future.

That is what you do when you retire, you stop planning for the future and live off the fat your body has added to prepare for it.

And stocks really don't pay dividends anymore so profits don't matter. A stock's primary value comes from it's potential to cost more in the future.

 

[william the wie]

Dividends are making a comeback because without growth there is no other way to price stocks than dividend yield except liquidation value.

 

[loosecannon]

Dividends are making a comeback because without growth there is no other way to price stocks than dividend yield except liquidation value.

How much of a comeback? Because the trend away from dividends is one of the truly significant factors that has fucked up Wall Street.

When all the incentives and bonuses are shifted toward performance of the stock trading value we see rampant criminal enterprise focused on driving up stock values. Whereas if profitability is the main thrust we see execs trying to build successful engines of growth. Which has in the past been very good for the nation.

 

[Sallow]

It is crazy.
The Dow should be around 8000 at best.
It is completely out of touch with anything other than a means for those pumping it up and down to ejaculate money for themselves.

Not really.

Companies are seeing huge profits. And they've parked low interest loans in their coffers. What's happening now is they have a very scared work force willing to shoulder what ever comes at them to remain productive (like working overtime without overtime pay). IMHO there are many shops not hiring because they want to force regulations to go out the window.

No, really.

Companies are reaping huge profits because they have downsized to their most profitable plateau and are not investing anything into the future.

That is what you do when you retire, you stop planning for the future and live off the fat your body has added to prepare for it.

And stocks really don't pay dividends anymore so profits don't matter. A stock's primary value comes from it's potential to cost more in the future.

Phffttt. Yeah they do. I keep kicking myself that I dumped my little portfolio to redo my Coop to make my girlfriend's dream kitchen and bathroom come true.

Ugh.