US: Israel cannot maintain military control of another people indefinitely

[ForeverYoung436]

You make the mistake of believing that understanding why the Palestinians might not passively accept their lot, with urging them to violence.

The Israelis have no intention of allowing the Palestinians build anything that might threaten Israeli sovereignty over the territory Israel now controls. That has been made quite clear.

It would save a lot of lives if the Palestinians would passively accept oppression and occupation, it is just irrational to expect the Palestinians to behave differently than any other oppressed population, throughout history.

Blaming the Palestinians for their failure is akin to blaming Native Americans for their failure.

I am blaming the Palestinians for their failure.. Where is their LEADERSHIP? NAME IT? What happened to their PA police force?

They got ALL of GAZA !!!!! WTF are they DOING with it? They could have most of the West Bank -- tie it to Gaza with an elevated superhighway and get ON with life. Egypt might kick in a commerce corridor. Jordan would eventually get over their Pali allergy and be a trade partner.

What is the excuse for not forming a RESPONSIBLE govt?

You just want conflict. You want their teens to die in the streets. But MOST OF ALL -- you want to see Israel proper damaged...

Billo and monte will counter that Gaza doesn't have enough concrete to build a school or a hospital. Yet, when they want to build tunnels, a massive amount of concrete magically appears...

 

[flacaltenn]

Blaming the Palestinians for their failure is akin to blaming Native Americans for their failure.

Not seeing any First Nations rockets fired at Ottawa and Washington. Are you?

They have been relegated to reservations. They are now docile. They did resist for hundreds of years, however. Geronimo didn't surrender until 1886, nearly 400 years after the Europeans first invaded.

Is that your vision for Palestinians? Eight generations of camp living? Is that the BEST you can do?

Here -- Let's try this. How about an Express Commerce Corridor between Gaza and Hebron (no intermediate exchanges) Continue that over to "90" on the shores of the Dead Sea. You've just connected Egypt and Jordan and placed "Palestine" smack dab in the middle of a MAJOR commerce corridor in the Mid East..

Just the falafel you could sell to the truckers would DOUBLE the Gross National Product of "palestine" today..

 

[Shusha]

They have been relegated to reservations. They are now docile. They did resist for hundreds of years, however. Geronimo didn't surrender until 1886, nearly 400 years after the Europeans first invaded.

Docile? No. What they are now are First Nations communities who, through peace and nation-building, are succeeding at achieving self-governance over ancestral territory with peace treaties and agreements with their neighbors.

 

[montelatici]

You make the mistake of believing that understanding why the Palestinians might not passively accept their lot, with urging them to violence.

The Israelis have no intention of allowing the Palestinians build anything that might threaten Israeli sovereignty over the territory Israel now controls. That has been made quite clear.

It would save a lot of lives if the Palestinians would passively accept oppression and occupation, it is just irrational to expect the Palestinians to behave differently than any other oppressed population, throughout history.

Blaming the Palestinians for their failure is akin to blaming Native Americans for their failure.

I am blaming the Palestinians for their failure.. Where is their LEADERSHIP? NAME IT? What happened to their PA police force?

They got ALL of GAZA !!!!! WTF are they DOING with it? They could have most of the West Bank -- tie it to Gaza with an elevated superhighway and get ON with life. Egypt might kick in a commerce corridor. Jordan would eventually get over their Pali allergy and be a trade partner.

What is the excuse for not forming a RESPONSIBLE govt?

You just want conflict. You want their teens to die in the streets. But MOST OF ALL -- you want to see Israel proper damaged...

1. Their effective leadership is in prison for the most part.
2. Gaza is a concentration camp (in the original sense of the word) where a large unwanted population can be contained most efficiently.
3. Israel has no intention of relinquishing sovereignty over any part of Eretz Israel, that has been made clear, nor are they prepared to lose control of the territorial sea of Gaza with gas and oil to exploit. Nor do they have any intention of losing control over any air space they now control.
4. It is irrational to expect that any Government recognized by the people, responsible or irresponsible, can be established under occupation. It might be possible to establish something like the Vichy government, but it was attacked by the partisans as much as the Germans were.

As I have said, it would preferable if the Palestinians passively accepted occupation. Strategically, they are not in a position to replicate the effectiveness of the Algerian FLN, the ANC or ZANU in Rhodesia, so I would agree with you, their resistance is futile. Unfortunately, human nature is what it is. So, while I believe that Palestinian passiveness would be preferable, it is irrational to expect that the Palestinians will behave differently than other people.

 

[montelatici]

They have been relegated to reservations. They are now docile. They did resist for hundreds of years, however. Geronimo didn't surrender until 1886, nearly 400 years after the Europeans first invaded.

Docile? No. What they are now are First Nations communities who, through peace and nation-building, are succeeding at achieving self-governance over ancestral territory with peace treaties and agreements with their neighbors.

Boy you are misinformed.

"When it comes to the harsh difficulties many Native Americans face every day, the saying "out of sight, out mind" hits home.

Many people have only a vague sense of the serious past and present injustices suffered by Native Americans.

The U.S. Civil Rights Commission in a report titled "A Quiet Crisis" states:

In exchange for land and in compensation for forced removal from their original homelands, the government promised through laws, treaties, and pledges to support and protect Native Americans. However, funding for programs associated with those promises has fallen short, and Native peoples continue to suffer the consequences of a discriminatory history. ...

Native Americans still suffer higher rates of poverty, poor educational achievement, substandard housing, and higher rates of disease and illness. Native Americans continue to rank at or near the bottom of nearly every social, health, and economic indicator. ...

Native Americans living on tribal lands do not have access to the same services and programs available to other Americans, even though the government has a binding trust obligation to provide them."

The forgotten plight of Native Americans | National Catholic Reporter

 

[Shusha]

But they have WON Gaza. They WON. Israel has relinquished all present and future control over Gaza. There is nothing to fight for anymore. Just build a nation and act peacefully. It isn't rocket science.

 

[Shusha]

They have been relegated to reservations. They are now docile. They did resist for hundreds of years, however. Geronimo didn't surrender until 1886, nearly 400 years after the Europeans first invaded.

Docile? No. What they are now are First Nations communities who, through peace and nation-building, are succeeding at achieving self-governance over ancestral territory with peace treaties and agreements with their neighbors.

Boy you are misinformed.

"When it comes to the harsh difficulties many Native Americans face every day, the saying "out of sight, out mind" hits home.

Many people have only a vague sense of the serious past and present injustices suffered by Native Americans.

The U.S. Civil Rights Commission in a report titled "A Quiet Crisis" states:

In exchange for land and in compensation for forced removal from their original homelands, the government promised through laws, treaties, and pledges to support and protect Native Americans. However, funding for programs associated with those promises has fallen short, and Native peoples continue to suffer the consequences of a discriminatory history. ...

Native Americans still suffer higher rates of poverty, poor educational achievement, substandard housing, and higher rates of disease and illness. Native Americans continue to rank at or near the bottom of nearly every social, health, and economic indicator. ...

Native Americans living on tribal lands do not have access to the same services and programs available to other Americans, even though the government has a binding trust obligation to provide them."

The forgotten plight of Native Americans | National Catholic Reporter

Oh don't get me wrong. Its a long process and a long way to go. Its no where near perfect. But here, in Canada, there are First Nations who are self-governing and have control over their ancestral territory.

 

[montelatici]

But they have WON Gaza. They WON. Israel has relinquished all present and future control over Gaza. There is nothing to fight for anymore. Just build a nation and act peacefully. It isn't rocket science.

Israel has never relinquished control of Gaza and does not intend to. I don't know where you get that idea.

 

[flacaltenn]

You make the mistake of believing that understanding why the Palestinians might not passively accept their lot, with urging them to violence.

The Israelis have no intention of allowing the Palestinians build anything that might threaten Israeli sovereignty over the territory Israel now controls. That has been made quite clear.

It would save a lot of lives if the Palestinians would passively accept oppression and occupation, it is just irrational to expect the Palestinians to behave differently than any other oppressed population, throughout history.

Blaming the Palestinians for their failure is akin to blaming Native Americans for their failure.

I am blaming the Palestinians for their failure.. Where is their LEADERSHIP? NAME IT? What happened to their PA police force?

They got ALL of GAZA !!!!! WTF are they DOING with it? They could have most of the West Bank -- tie it to Gaza with an elevated superhighway and get ON with life. Egypt might kick in a commerce corridor. Jordan would eventually get over their Pali allergy and be a trade partner.

What is the excuse for not forming a RESPONSIBLE govt?

You just want conflict. You want their teens to die in the streets. But MOST OF ALL -- you want to see Israel proper damaged...

1. Their effective leadership is in prison for the most part.
2. Gaza is a concentration camp (in the original sense of the word) where a large unwanted population can be contained most efficiently.
3. Israel has no intention of relinquishing sovereignty over any part of Eretz Israel, that has been made clear, nor are they prepared to lose control of the territorial sea of Gaza with gas and oil to exploit. Nor do they have any intention of losing control over any air space they now control.
4. It is irrational to expect that any Government recognized by the people, responsible or irresponsible, can be established under occupation. It might be possible to establish something like the Vichy government, but it was attacked by the partisans as much as the Germans were.

As I have said, it would preferable if the Palestinians passively accepted occupation. Strategically, they are not in a position to replicate the effectiveness of the Algerian FLN, the ANC or ZANU in Rhodesia, so I would agree with you, their resistance is futile. Unfortunately, human nature is what it is. So, while I believe that Palestinian passiveness would be preferable, it is irrational to expect that the Palestinians will behave differently than other people.

ALL of those things you mentioned were outlined in joint agreement between the DECEASED PA and Israel. Including a seaport and airport/airspace. The Palestinians CHOSE to go militant..

Go find ways for them to THRIVE in a negotiated plan for autonomy.. THAT is the way to fix this.

 

[flacaltenn]

But they have WON Gaza. They WON. Israel has relinquished all present and future control over Gaza. There is nothing to fight for anymore. Just build a nation and act peacefully. It isn't rocket science.

Israel has never relinquished control of Gaza and does not intend to. I don't know where you get that idea.

Israel has not ONE soldier or MP in Gaza. Doesn't want it. Doesn't want to be there. Next ????

 

[montelatici]

You make the mistake of believing that understanding why the Palestinians might not passively accept their lot, with urging them to violence.

The Israelis have no intention of allowing the Palestinians build anything that might threaten Israeli sovereignty over the territory Israel now controls. That has been made quite clear.

It would save a lot of lives if the Palestinians would passively accept oppression and occupation, it is just irrational to expect the Palestinians to behave differently than any other oppressed population, throughout history.

Blaming the Palestinians for their failure is akin to blaming Native Americans for their failure.

I am blaming the Palestinians for their failure.. Where is their LEADERSHIP? NAME IT? What happened to their PA police force?

They got ALL of GAZA !!!!! WTF are they DOING with it? They could have most of the West Bank -- tie it to Gaza with an elevated superhighway and get ON with life. Egypt might kick in a commerce corridor. Jordan would eventually get over their Pali allergy and be a trade partner.

What is the excuse for not forming a RESPONSIBLE govt?

You just want conflict. You want their teens to die in the streets. But MOST OF ALL -- you want to see Israel proper damaged...

1. Their effective leadership is in prison for the most part.
2. Gaza is a concentration camp (in the original sense of the word) where a large unwanted population can be contained most efficiently.
3. Israel has no intention of relinquishing sovereignty over any part of Eretz Israel, that has been made clear, nor are they prepared to lose control of the territorial sea of Gaza with gas and oil to exploit. Nor do they have any intention of losing control over any air space they now control.
4. It is irrational to expect that any Government recognized by the people, responsible or irresponsible, can be established under occupation. It might be possible to establish something like the Vichy government, but it was attacked by the partisans as much as the Germans were.

As I have said, it would preferable if the Palestinians passively accepted occupation. Strategically, they are not in a position to replicate the effectiveness of the Algerian FLN, the ANC or ZANU in Rhodesia, so I would agree with you, their resistance is futile. Unfortunately, human nature is what it is. So, while I believe that Palestinian passiveness would be preferable, it is irrational to expect that the Palestinians will behave differently than other people.

ALL of those things you mentioned were outlined in joint agreement between the DECEASED PA and Israel. Including a seaport and airport/airspace. The Palestinians CHOSE to go militant..

Go find ways for them to THRIVE in a negotiated plan for autonomy.. THAT is the way to fix this.

No, Israel and Egypt declared any agreements null and void when Hamas won the election (democratically), claiming that the agreement was with the PLO not the democratically elected government. The Palestinians resorted to violence when it became clear that the Israelis were not going to honor the agreement.

 

[montelatici]

But let's be clear, the Israelis have no intention to grant any autonomy to the Palestinians. The current regime in Israel has stated as such, and the Government would fall if there was any move to grant autonomy to the Palestinians. Israel fully intends to create Eretz Israel and with continued U.S. support, it will do so.

 

[montelatici]

But they have WON Gaza. They WON. Israel has relinquished all present and future control over Gaza. There is nothing to fight for anymore. Just build a nation and act peacefully. It isn't rocket science.

Israel has never relinquished control of Gaza and does not intend to. I don't know where you get that idea.

Israel has not ONE soldier or MP in Gaza. Doesn't want it. Doesn't want to be there. Next ????

Israel has a substantial armor and infantry units surrounding Gaza, naval units patrolling Gaza territorial sea and a no fly zone over Gaza air space, it wants to be there and intends to control the territory indefinitely.

 

[Roudy]

But they have WON Gaza. They WON. Israel has relinquished all present and future control over Gaza. There is nothing to fight for anymore. Just build a nation and act peacefully. It isn't rocket science.

Israel has never relinquished control of Gaza and does not intend to. I don't know where you get that idea.

Israel has not ONE soldier or MP in Gaza. Doesn't want it. Doesn't want to be there. Next ????

Israel has a substantial armor and infantry units surrounding Gaza, naval units patrolling Gaza territorial sea and a no fly zone over Gaza air space, it wants to be there and intends to control the territory indefinitely.

And yet, somehow, shooting rockets at Israeli cities and digging terror tunnels is going to make the Israelis drop their defenses? You're dreaming. PaliNazi logic at its finest.

 

[flacaltenn]

You make the mistake of believing that understanding why the Palestinians might not passively accept their lot, with urging them to violence.

The Israelis have no intention of allowing the Palestinians build anything that might threaten Israeli sovereignty over the territory Israel now controls. That has been made quite clear.

It would save a lot of lives if the Palestinians would passively accept oppression and occupation, it is just irrational to expect the Palestinians to behave differently than any other oppressed population, throughout history.

Blaming the Palestinians for their failure is akin to blaming Native Americans for their failure.

I am blaming the Palestinians for their failure.. Where is their LEADERSHIP? NAME IT? What happened to their PA police force?

They got ALL of GAZA !!!!! WTF are they DOING with it? They could have most of the West Bank -- tie it to Gaza with an elevated superhighway and get ON with life. Egypt might kick in a commerce corridor. Jordan would eventually get over their Pali allergy and be a trade partner.

What is the excuse for not forming a RESPONSIBLE govt?

You just want conflict. You want their teens to die in the streets. But MOST OF ALL -- you want to see Israel proper damaged...

1. Their effective leadership is in prison for the most part.
2. Gaza is a concentration camp (in the original sense of the word) where a large unwanted population can be contained most efficiently.
3. Israel has no intention of relinquishing sovereignty over any part of Eretz Israel, that has been made clear, nor are they prepared to lose control of the territorial sea of Gaza with gas and oil to exploit. Nor do they have any intention of losing control over any air space they now control.
4. It is irrational to expect that any Government recognized by the people, responsible or irresponsible, can be established under occupation. It might be possible to establish something like the Vichy government, but it was attacked by the partisans as much as the Germans were.

As I have said, it would preferable if the Palestinians passively accepted occupation. Strategically, they are not in a position to replicate the effectiveness of the Algerian FLN, the ANC or ZANU in Rhodesia, so I would agree with you, their resistance is futile. Unfortunately, human nature is what it is. So, while I believe that Palestinian passiveness would be preferable, it is irrational to expect that the Palestinians will behave differently than other people.

ALL of those things you mentioned were outlined in joint agreement between the DECEASED PA and Israel. Including a seaport and airport/airspace. The Palestinians CHOSE to go militant..

Go find ways for them to THRIVE in a negotiated plan for autonomy.. THAT is the way to fix this.

No, Israel and Egypt declared any agreements null and void when Hamas won the election (democratically), claiming that the agreement was with the PLO not the democratically elected government. The Palestinians resorted to violence when it became clear that the Israelis were not going to honor the agreement.

And within MONTHS the Palestinians were killing each other in Gaza and the West Bank and the PA that NEGOTIATED the deal was blown apart.. So what? You think Hamas is a "responsible partner" in International relations? Israel is not the ONLY the country to have a problem with that. Many Arab countries have an issue with that as well..

Quit blaming Israel and LOOK at all the squandered opportunities for peace. The West Bank was not under military control while Jordan was the Administrator. How did THAT end? What efforts were made by the PLO to give autonomy to Palestine then? GENERATIONS of bad choices..

 

[montelatici]

1. The Palestinians were killing each other because the PLO would not accept the election results.
2. We will never know if the new Palestinian government would have been a responsible partner, they were not given a chance.
3. Jordan gave citizenship to the West Bank Palestinians, with heavy resistance of the Bedouin citizens. Though they had fewer rights than the native Bedouins, they would have eventually integrated into the Jordanian society. The West Bank was recaptured by the Israelis, that ended that.
4. Israel has never intended to give autonomy representing anything near sovereignty to the Palestinians. You just can't get it through your head that Israeli Jews want to rule all of Palestine.

In any case, the latest news from today has actually resolved the issue. It validates what I have been saying all along. Finally, we can end the charade.


After Labor rules out Palestinian state, Netanyahu says: 'Good morning, Herzog'

“And then, at the beginning of the week, something happened. Members of the Labor Party decided that the two-state solution cannot be implemented,” he added. “You’re the last ones to recognize the reality."

After Labor rules out Palestinian state, Netanyahu says: 'Good morning, Herzog'