US Calls Turkish Actions 'Genocide'; Turks Outraged

[SFC Ollie]

I don't see the importance of labeling the murder of Armenians as genocide. Will is serve any purpose or change anything for the better ? I'll warrant 95% of Amercans don't even know of the murders and even less know the details.

I think that's kinda the point, isn't it? Shouldn't this be something that's taught in school?

College world history or some obscure middle eastern politics class. American kids aleady are seriousy lacking in the basic skill sets to even make a living.

Our HS Students can't even get all the way through American History completely.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Only the Turks don't think it was a genocide. They need to suck it up and grow the fuck up. Then again, they're Muslims - admitting you're wrong isn't in their vocabulary...

Does America admit to the genocide against the natives during 'manifest destiny'?

 

[Xenophon]

Who, after all, speaks to-day of the annihilation of the Armenians?...Adolph Hitler, who knew plenty about genocides...

 

[SFC Ollie]

Only the Turks don't think it was a genocide. They need to suck it up and grow the fuck up. Then again, they're Muslims - admitting you're wrong isn't in their vocabulary...

Does America admit to the genocide against the natives during 'manifest destiny'?

Of course not.

 

[ekrem]

Who, after all, speaks to-day of the annihilation of the Armenians?...Adolph Hitler, who knew plenty about genocides...

The authenticity of the quote has been disputed.
It is claimed that he referred to the Armenians in the manner cited above, while delivering a secret talk to members of his General Staff, a week prior to his attack on Poland. However, there is no reference to the Armenians in the original texts of the two Hitler speeches delivered on August 22, 1939, published as the official texts in the reliable Nuremberg documents.
Wikipedia
Armenian quote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Propaganda for those who do not know facts. "Hitler" is a magic word these days.
Everything in the same sentence with Hitler is being tied to Hitler's evil.

 

[ekrem]

NY Times, November 3rd 1914

It opens as PDF:
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9B03E0DC1738E633A25750C1A9679D946596D6CF

 

[ekrem]

Here the Headline from NYTimes of 1914:
It is linked above in PDF-Format.

 

[ekrem]

Now the point is this:
If a "commission" or something is going to inspect the incidents of 1915 in its historical and regional context, then Turkey will accept the findings of those commission. The incidents must be brought to light in full-context of WW1 and Russian invasion of East Turkey and Ottoman Armenian's role in the siege of East Anatolian cities.

Otherwise Turkey will not accept anything. Because without the context things stand without causality. And then things stand as if the collapsing Ottomans did not have any other problems then genocide Armenians, Hitler style.

 

[Tommy Lucchese]

Barking posers for Armenian-Americans in election districts of California.

The Armenian genocide by the Turks was on the same scale as the Holocaust.

Fuck them if they don't like it. They did their best to exterminate the Kurds, er excuse me "Mountain Turks," for the last fifty years too.

 

[ekrem]

Barking posers for Armenian-Americans in election districts of California.

The Armenian genocide by the Turks was on the same scale as the Holocaust.

Fuck them if they don't like it. They did their best to exterminate the Kurds, er excuse me "Mountain Turks," for the last fifty years too.

You have a parliament, we have too.
And, you do not have a white history.
If this becomes practice the "Western World" will loose the most as the "Western Worlds" history is the most far from white.

 

[Tommy Lucchese]

Barking posers for Armenian-Americans in election districts of California.

The Armenian genocide by the Turks was on the same scale as the Holocaust.

Fuck them if they don't like it. They did their best to exterminate the Kurds, er excuse me "Mountain Turks," for the last fifty years too.

You have a parliament, we have too.
And, you do not have a white history.
If this becomes practice the "Western World" will loose the most as the "Western Worlds" history is the most far from white.

Believe me, I'm not one of those America does no wrong types, we have a very checkered past and we rightfully get condemned for massacring Amerindians, "Christianizing" the already Catholic Filipinos, stuff like that.

I have no problem pointing out my country's faults, so I certainly have no problem pointing out Turkey's.

In fairness, it was the Ottomans and you're not the government anymore, but the post-Ataturk record with Kurds is not great either.

 

[del]

Now the point is this:
If a "commission" or something is going to inspect the incidents of 1915 in its historical and regional context, then Turkey will accept the findings of those commission. The incidents must be brought to light in full-context of WW1 and Russian invasion of East Turkey and Ottoman Armenian's role in the siege of East Anatolian cities.

Otherwise Turkey will not accept anything. Because without the context things stand without causality. And then things stand as if the collapsing Ottomans did not have any other problems then genocide Armenians, Hitler style.

so as long as you're multitasking, genocide is cool?

got it.

 

[beowolfe]

We should have done this a long time ago. If we had, they'd be over it by now.

 

[ekrem]

so as long as you're multitasking, genocide is cool?

got it.

I would interpret the whole incidents of 1915 as pre-modern Anti-Terrorism measures.
Eastern Anatolia was war zone. Ottomans were in constant war-state before WW1 already, loosing territories.
Armenians wanted what the Balkan nations achieved: Independence.
So Ottoman Armenians living within the borders of Ottomans aligned with the invading Russians in Eastern Anatolia, which at the same time were Orthodox brethren.

Ottomans relocated Armenians away from the war-zone in Eastern Anatolia into Syrian desert. A pure need-based decision in the ongoing Russian-Turkish conflict.

This has nothing to do with "Hitler style" genocide. The whole "Armenian Genocide" thing is being portrayed as if Turks one day woke out of sleep with the idea to relocate Armenians just for fun. We will not accept anything that is being portrayed as such.

 

[ekrem]

We should have done this a long time ago. If we had, they'd be over it by now.

Please do.
If this happens it will be the single most damaging development in US-Turkish relations since we have having diplomatic relations.
Armenians lost their war of independence and that must hurt. There is no reason introducing a concept of hurt/pain in diplomatic relations of US-Turkey.
You dream big time when you think we will sit by like a penetrated bitch.

 

[ekrem]

0:25

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30tyaXv6EI]YouTube - Conan the Barbarian - What is best in life?[/ame]

 

[Old Rocks]

History forgotten or ignored, is history repeated.

 

[Neser Boha]

Now the point is this:
If a "commission" or something is going to inspect the incidents of 1915 in its historical and regional context, then Turkey will accept the findings of those commission. The incidents must be brought to light in full-context of WW1 and Russian invasion of East Turkey and Ottoman Armenian's role in the siege of East Anatolian cities.

Otherwise Turkey will not accept anything. Because without the context things stand without causality. And then things stand as if the collapsing Ottomans did not have any other problems then genocide Armenians, Hitler style.

I have to agree that context is quite important. After WWII almost entire German population was expelled from the Czech lands as they were seen by the Czechs as 'Hitler's 5th colony' (some of them helped Hitler and Nazis and some of they became Nazi supporters during WWII, but of course not ALL of them) ... and it was not pretty. Some women were raped en masse and it also didn't take place without some murders, etc. Was it wrong? Of course! Can you blame the Czechs for doing it? Not really, were you there and were you in their shoes, some of you would probably take a part after being occupied and treated like an 'inferior race' for some years by ze Krauts. Btw, what I'm referring to is called 'Benes decrees' and EU is, btw, fine with it (or doesn't really express itself on it.

War is a disgusting thing and especially when the victims gain the upper hand once again, all sorts of crazy revengeful shit will go down (remember treatment of French women that slept with Nazi soldiers after WW2 or all kinds of collaborators? Some nasty shit, but ... still somewhat understandable despite being morally wrong.)

Therefore, I would also like to see it presented IN the context and judged with the context in mind. I really don't know that much about it, but no matter what, context is always important and sometimes throws a very different light on things.

 

[ekrem]

History forgotten or ignored, is history repeated.

We wont forget.
With "embedded journalism" the genocide of Iraq is well documented audio-visually.
You really think you are a moral compass?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Turkey has recalled its ambassador from the US and condemned a Washington panel's move to declare the killing of Armenians by Ottoman forces in the first world war a "genocide".
"We condemn this resolution which accuses the Turkish nation of a crime it has not committed," Ankara said in a statement on Thursday.
"Following this development, our ambassador to Washington, Namik Tan, was recalled to Ankara for consultations."
The announcement came minutes after the US House of Representatives' Foreign Affairs Committee passed a non-binding measure in a 23-22 vote on Thursday, calling on the Obama administration to ensure US policy formally refers to the 1915 mass killings of Armenians as genocide.

Al Jazeera English - Europe - Turkey condemns US 'genocide' vote

I do not know why Turkey cares, nor we, Ottoman Empire was and is NOT Turkey. It no LONGER exists.