US Calls Turkish Actions 'Genocide'; Turks Outraged

[JakeStarkey]

The USA was able to ignore Turkey in March 2003 and still invade Iraq successfully. Thus we owe Turkey nothing. And, yes, it was genocide. The definition of "the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group" clearly defines the history of Turkey and the minority group from 1911 to 1916. I have liked most of the Turks I have met, but they are xenophobic second only to the Japanese, in my opinion. I hope the resolution passes and have been disappointed in administrations in the past's waffling on the matter.

Thass backwards. Turkey was able to ignore the US even after we tried to bribe them with over $25 million.

The mouse hides from the cat, or it will have a very unexpected future.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

id tell the turks to go suck a dick, and quit being so buttsore

 

[Neser Boha]

Turkey and the United States are both extremely foolish to focus so heavily on an event that occurred over a century ago. The US should be more pragmatic regarding its relations with Turkey, and Turkey should grow a pair and quit whining when it's pointed out that some sort of genocide occurred.

We do not whine.
Our position is clear: "Do if you think you can".


Its foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu (...) said that describing the 1915 Armenian killings as genocide was an insult to Turkey's "honour".
(...)
Suat Kiniklioglu, the influential deputy chairman for external affairs in the ruling Justice and Development party (AKP) (...)
"If they choose to bring this to the floor they will have to face the fact that the consequences would be serious – the relationship would be downgraded at every level," he said. "Everything from Afghanistan to Pakistan to Iraq to the Middle East process would be affected.

Turkey threatens 'serious consequences' after US vote on Armenian genocide | World news | The Guardian

Consequences, ROFL! I am PRETTY damn sure that if Turkey wanted to play rough, it would be Turkey that'd lose and big time at that And I'm pretty sure Turkish politicians know that as well. This is all just BS grandstanding. Honor this and honor that ... honor my ass.

 

[ekrem]

(...)This is all just BS grandstanding. Honor this and honor that ... honor my ass.

As long as you have interests in Turkey's sphere of influence you are the one which will loose. Persistent.
We will transform from being a partner in solving issues to someone who is creating problems for which you will not have any solutions.

LINK: Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu (...) told a Sarajevo audience (...) : Turkey's sphere of influence extends in a 3000 kilometers circle from the capital Ankara and takes in 72 countries.
The only theoretical competitor is Russia. But Russian-Turkish relations, without much media attention have exploded in every field.
Here a good free article about Russia and Turkey:
Turkey and Russia on the Rise | STRATFOR

Consequences, ROFL! I am PRETTY damn sure that if Turkey wanted to play rough, it would be Turkey that'd lose and big time at that And I'm pretty sure Turkish politicians know that as well.

Our bilateral trade is just 15 Billion $. Peanuts.
You do not have any economical bullying capability over us.
We are dependant - by choice - on your aviation industry.
Russians would deliver civilian Tupolevs and instead of F-35 we would pump the money into Eurofighter or Russian equivalent.
Both would be happy to win over a major new consumer.

 

[ekrem]

id tell the turks to go suck a dick, and quit being so buttsore

Life is no MTV music requesting programe.
The sooner you learn this the more of empirical value/experience you will have to teach this your children.

 

[86DuDE]

So when do we get to vote on our government's ongoing genocide?

 

[ekrem]

According to General Duncan J. McNabb, current Commander of U.S. Transportation Command
Duncan McNabb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
46% of Air-Support to Afghanistan goes through Incirlik.

ABD Ýncirlik için malumu ilan etti - Hürriyet

 

[ekrem]

U.S. Commander Defines Incirlik as Pivotal Base
Gen. Duncan McNabb, the commander of U.S. Transportation Command, said that Incirlik was a really pivotal base for the United States, both for the resupply of Iraq and for the resupply of Afghanistan.
(...)
Also speaking in the session, Gen. David Petraeus (...) Turkey had invested some 10 billion USD in north of Iraq so far, Petraeus also said.
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/99824/u-s-commander-defines-incirlik-as-pivotal-base.html

 

[ekrem]

Adam Schiff

Main-Sponsor of Genocide Resolution
H.Res.252: Affirmation of the United States Record on the Armenian Genocide Resolution - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

(...)
he claims to have over 70,000 Armenian-Americans in his district.[4][5]

Adam Schiff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ekrem]

Robert Menéndez

S.Res.316: Affirmation of the United States Record on the Armenian Genocide Resolution - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress


Armenian American Democratic Leadership Council

Representative Menendez has been a true and longstanding friend of the Armenian-American community

Armenian American Democratic Leadership Council

LoL, even the Link-Structure of the URL ends with
/allstars.asp?allid=1

 

[ekrem]

Chairman of the Vote was Howard Berman.
The vote ended 23-22. Just by 1 vote.

Chairman Howard Berman (D-California) held the vote open for an astonishing 90 minutes in order to ensure that he had just enough votes to keep the measure from going

Was this mess avoidable? - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review

Howard Berman

Berman represents over 600,000 residents of California’s 28th Congressional District (encompassing a large area of the San Fernando Valley), a district that is home to tens of thousands of Armenian Americans.

ANC-PAC Stands in Strong Support of Congressman Howard Berman | Asbarez Armenian News


ANC-PAC ==== Armenian National Committee–Political Action Committee

ANC-PAC (...) to attend an annual fundraiser held in southern California in support of Congressman Howard Berman (D-CA).

ANC-PAC Stands in Strong Support of Congressman Howard Berman | Asbarez Armenian News

 

[ekrem]

Mr. Erdogan lecturing Ms. Amanpour.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

 

[Munin]

Srry man you re exagerating how powerful your country is, Turkey is not a superpower or a major power: it is still a small player compared to the US, Russia and China. Sure Turkey has a sphere of influence on its neighbours but I wouldn't exagerate that any further than that, the US has a sphere of influence no other nation can compete with it (a sphere of influence across the whole globe).

Other than that the US is a leading power in many organisations, there isn't any big organisation that the US as a country does not have big influence (NATO, UN, IMF, ... ) even in the OPEC organisation the US has influence (due to good relations with Saudi Arabia and other OPEC countries).


Even China can not defy the US as a superpower, it has a similar denial problem (the fact that they occupy a foreign country: tibet) and has been threatening every nation that would invite the Dalay Lama (the cultural and spiritual leader of tibet). And guess what: the US gave him a prize (congressional award).

If there will be a clash, it will be both nations that will loose (as it will hurt interests of both nations). But proportionally Turkish interests would be damaged more, you simply can not deny that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

To use a sporting metaphor: Turkey is an utility player on a major league team. The USA and USSR are the super stars, and China joins them as all stars. Nations such as South Korea, France, Italy, etc. are starters. Turkey rides the bench. It has a role to play but can be easily traded for a better player.

 

[ekrem]

Turkey is in a region that matters to world dynamics.
I know it myself we are currently no world-power or something like that, I know this myself.
What counts is, that unlike those world powers, our capabilities are on-ground and in regional proximity to this area that matters to the world. And these capabilities are by far the most potent over here.

So you say a world-power like China matters more then Turkey in West-Asia?
Or an European central power like Germany or France matter more in West-Asia?

 

[ekrem]

(...)
If there will be a clash, it will be both nations that will loose (as it will hurt interests of both nations). But proportionally Turkish interests would be damaged more, you simply can not deny that.

If your view of the world keeps going on, by believing Turkey will loose, then be it so.

We will degrade relationships with you, once that resolution thing passes.
We will redefine, formulate and implement foreign policy everywhere we have influence de-coupled from US-NATO-Turkey triangle.
That does not have to mean, that we implement foreign policy by the principle to harm USA, but we surely wont reconsider any US interests in the Balkans, Caucasus, Middle-East, Central-Asia and North-Africa. .

We don't need you, some in Turkey don't want you on the political scenery.
The public does anyway favour trashing obsolete "Cold War" alliances and pursueing Turkish-centered foreign policy.

 

[ekrem]

To use a sporting metaphor: Turkey is an utility player on a major league team. (...)

Nice US centric view.
Nice metaphor.
Now let's switch to realpolitik:
You don't even have solutions for Iran.
Degradation of US-Turkey relations will have an impact that will alter every worst-case scenario you currently have think-thanked for West-Asia, provided that current Turkish foreign policy is itself altered to obligations of the US-Turkish relations.

We currently dont know if Turkish position to several issues would be different, if Turkey would not have the obligations of US-NATO-Turkey triangle.
Want to find out? Your congressmen of Armenian-American districts seem to want.

There is noone in this region that you can build-upon as a counterweight or containment force against Turkey. Power balance is too one-sided for this to happen and economic integration is too advanced.
If there is still any country around having the balls to implement anti-Turkish policies orchestrated by USA, we will reduce throughput of Euphrat and Tigris rivers down-wards and before any "real action" we will put into force economic warfare.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Turkey is not a major player, a minor one at the best. A simple example suffices - when Turkey tried to blackmail the U.S. for money to let American troops transit Turkey for the invasion of Iraq, the U.S. told Turkey to screw off and then was nice to the Kurds.

Turks have far more to lose than the U.S. in any situation.

 

[ekrem]

Turkey is not a major player, a minor one at the best. A simple example suffices - when Turkey tried to blackmail the U.S. for money to let American troops transit Turkey for the invasion of Iraq, the U.S. told Turkey to screw off and then was nice to the Kurds.(...)

And where are we know?
"Kurdish Regional Government of Iraq" is Turkish airspace with Turkish Airforce flying therein, it is an extension of Turkish economy and we have military bases there.

Undeniable, that the USA can implement policy against our interests to punish Turkey. Like for example with the Kurd issue, here and there letting float around "Kurdistan maps".
But these policies are short-living.

Financial Times:
- 80% of goods in KRG are Turkish
- 55% of foreign companies in KRG are Turkish
- Turkish opil company invested in KRG oil field Tak-Tak
FT.com / Iraq - Turkey finds a gateway to Iraq

According to General Petraeus, Turkey invested about 10 Billion $ into North Iraq.
LINK: US commander defines ?ncirlik as pivotal base
"Stable North-Iraq" is Turkish sponsored.

Look at this thread (for whole Iraq):
In 2009 alone Turkish companies signed investment agreements worth 8 Billion $ in whole Iraq. Turkey is excluding the oil sector the biggest investor in Iraq:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/iraq/112946-iraq-turkey-trade-up-50-a.html

I doubt, Iraq or North-Iraq has anything substantial to privatize.
But if there is any privatization by KRG we will buy that also.
North-Iraq is extension of Turkish economy.

the U.S. told Turkey to screw off and then was nice to the Kurds

Yeah, whatever.
We went into North-Iraq in 2008 militarily.
According to Stratfor we established 11 military bases in North-Iraq after we pulled out.

The temporary security bases are to be established in Zap, Avaşin, Hakurk, Zinhat Pass, Zeli, Mezi, Haftanin, Qanimasi, Mergasor and Barzan.

Free Article for Non-Members | STRATFOR

Our jets still fly in North-Iraq airspace.

 

[Munin]

To use a sporting metaphor: Turkey is an utility player on a major league team. (...)

Now let's switch to realpolitik:
You don't even have solutions for Iran.

Uh no, this is the solution for Iran:

Nuclear summit in Washington 'most unarguable' - Medvedev | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire

The US has now created an 'axis of power' (bilateral relationship that enables 2 countries to closely work together on global issues) with moscow and this new good relationship will allow the US to pressure Iran into submission, as the only opposing major power is China and that country can not afford to be isolated (as it is the only opposing major country). Simply put, China will loose more than it has to gain by opposing all the other major powers in the world. You may have noticed how careful the Chinese chose their words when talking about pressuring Iran.

Turkey hasn't even been mentioned in these talks, it is not been a significant influence in any way (compared to China & Russia).

Key players against Iran: Russia, China & Some major European nations (UK & France both have nukes)