Unfettered Capitalism

The rise of modern European capitalism was intimately a part of creating modern European nation states out of inheredited feudal kingdoms. It broke beyond the nation state geographical limits with slave economies / colonies in the Americas (and India, Africa, even East Asia) producing commodities for the “mother country” and eventually international markets (even international credit markets). The first two World Wars were inter-imperialist struggles to control world resources, markets, struggles between alliances of nation states run (mostly) by different forms of capitalism.

All of these historical phenomenon were examples of “unfettered capitalism” or, if you will, capitalism using the power of nation states and peoples in its own interests. People and parties and nations were mostly not independent actors controlling capitalism, but agents — sometimes practically robotic slaves — of capitalism.

After WWII and the collapse of the USSR the U.S. emerged as the leading country of “liberal capitalism” on the world stage, and its Wall Street and the international rules it set up ran the world economy. The capitalist system was never wed to any single country, however, and as much as the U.S. thought itself exceptional and was exceptionally blessed and triumphant, world capitalism led under U.S. guidance and in opposition to the planned USSR economy, to European capitalist rebirth. Japan and Asian tigers also grew up as part of the U.S. imperialist capitalism chain, standing guard against newly “socialist” but devastated and poor China.

Russia and China are of course today two very different sorts of state capitalism, and the increasingly indebted, state crony capitalist imperialist mother country of the U.S. is destroying international “free trade” institutions that it once itself built up, like the WTO. Today “unfettered capitalism” makes of us all, of virtually every country, mere playthings.

Whether we seek to return to a time of great power nationalism and war or seek better international organization, whether we are Democrats or Republicans, libertarians or international social democrats, whether we are localists or globalists, have stocks or just work day to day for basic sustenance, we may change dramatically our own survival prospects, but “unfettered capitalism” is twisting and turning and trying to escape human control, trying to turn humans into either commodities or into its direct agents, working its nasty magic.
 
Whatever he called it, it would still be a failure where everyone starved and wallowed in poverty.
How many died from capitalism since 1945?
tumblr_mgxnszZ2VU1r6m2leo1_500.png
Answer: none.

Meanwhile, communism has killed 120 million in the last century.
BS
Truth
 
The rise of modern European capitalism was intimately a part of creating modern European nation states out of inheredited feudal kingdoms. It broke beyond the nation state geographical limits with slave economies / colonies in the Americas (and India, Africa, even East Asia) producing commodities for the “mother country” and eventually international markets (even international credit markets). The first two World Wars were inter-imperialist struggles to control world resources, markets, struggles between alliances of nation states run (mostly) by different forms of capitalism.

All of these historical phenomenon were examples of “unfettered capitalism” or, if you will, capitalism using the power of nation states and peoples in its own interests. People and parties and nations were mostly not independent actors controlling capitalism, but agents — sometimes practically robotic slaves — of capitalism.

After WWII and the collapse of the USSR the U.S. emerged as the leading country of “liberal capitalism” on the world stage, and its Wall Street and the international rules it set up ran the world economy. The capitalist system was never wed to any single country, however, and as much as the U.S. thought itself exceptional and was exceptionally blessed and triumphant, world capitalism led under U.S. guidance and in opposition to the planned USSR economy, to European capitalist rebirth. Japan and Asian tigers also grew up as part of the U.S. imperialist capitalism chain, standing guard against newly “socialist” but devastated and poor China.

Russia and China are of course today two very different sorts of state capitalism, and the increasingly indebted, state crony capitalist imperialist mother country of the U.S. is destroying international “free trade” institutions that it once itself built up, like the WTO. Today “unfettered capitalism” makes of us all, of virtually every country, mere playthings.

Whether we seek to return to a time of great power nationalism and war or seek better international organization, whether we are Democrats or Republicans, libertarians or international social democrats, whether we are localists or globalists, have stocks or just work day to day for basic sustenance, we may change dramatically our own survival prospects, but “unfettered capitalism” is twisting and turning and trying to escape human control, trying to turn humans into either commodities or into its direct agents, working its nasty magic.
That's a giant load of horseshit. It appears to be a product of the communist party.
 
Truth is always "out of style" with socialists. The reality is, whenever you look at their agenda, what you see is government control of the economy.
How many times does capitalism have to fail before you hold it to the same standards as socialism?
screen-shot-2016-01-18-at-10-28-05-pm.png

Criticism of capitalism - Wikipedia

"Socialists argue that the accumulation of capital generates waste through externalities that require costly corrective regulatory measures.

"They also point out that this process generates wasteful industries and practices that exist only to generate sufficient demand for products to be sold at a profit (such as high-pressure advertisement), thereby creating rather than satisfying economic demand.[4"
For an economist, Einstein was a great physicist.
 
The only place that has ever happened is on a Kibbutz.

And there aren't multiple definitions. Social is central economic planning.
Is US capitalism centrally planned by Wall Street banks?

I provided one of many examples where worker self-directed enterprises have already happened aside from the Zionist colonization of Palestine:


Mondragon Corporation - Wikipedia

"The Mondragon Corporation is a corporation and federation of worker cooperatives based in the Basque region of Spain. It was founded in the town of Mondragon in 1956 by graduates of a local technical college.

"Its first product was paraffin heaters. It is the tenth-largest Spanish company in terms of asset turnover and the leading business group in the Basque Country."

Socialism is a theory of social organization which argues the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned and regulated by the community as a whole.

Government would have a role to play in that system, but it would be far less critical than the Federal Reserve's current contribution to the stock market.

So worker controlled companies could be started anywhere in the world and since you claim they are superior they would win in the market place. Capitalism is just economic freedom. You're free to structure a company however the hell you want. But the best and first example you come up with is paraffin heaters in Spain, LOL.

Your honor, I rest my case
I've been hearing about Monragon for at least 15 years, and it's supports can never explain why no one has ever heard of it.
 
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Truth is always "out of style" with socialists. The reality is, whenever you look at their agenda, what you see is government control of the economy.
How many times does capitalism have to fail before you hold it to the same standards as socialism?
screen-shot-2016-01-18-at-10-28-05-pm.png

Criticism of capitalism - Wikipedia

"Socialists argue that the accumulation of capital generates waste through externalities that require costly corrective regulatory measures.

"They also point out that this process generates wasteful industries and practices that exist only to generate sufficient demand for products to be sold at a profit (such as high-pressure advertisement), thereby creating rather than satisfying economic demand.[4"
For an economist, Einstein was a great physicist.

I like the way Winston Churchill put it better: The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of blessings. The inherent virtue of socialism is the equal distribution of misery.

People like georgephillip don't care about having more money. Their wealth envy and greed leads them to just want everyone to be poor so no one has more than they do
 
Democratic socialism means every decision in society is subject to majority rule.
No, it doesn't:
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Democratic socialism - Wikipedia.

"Democratic socialism can be characterised as follows:

  • "Much property held by the public through a democratically elected government, including most major industries, utilities, and transportation systems
  • A limit on the accumulation of private property
  • Governmental regulation of the economy
  • Extensive publicly financed assistance and pension programs
  • Social costs and the provision of services added to purely financial considerations as the measure of efficiency
"Publicly held property is limited to productive property and significant infrastructure; it does not extend to personal property, homes, and small businesses. And in practice in many democratic socialist countries, it has not extended to many large corporations."
 
Democratic socialism means every decision in society is subject to majority rule.
No, it doesn't

The Democratic Socialists of America don't agree:

What is Democratic Socialism?
Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.
 
This is from the About page on Democratic Socialists of America.
What is Democratic Socialism?
Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

Both the economy and society. That's everything.
Your link:

"Democracy and socialism go hand in hand. All over the world, wherever the idea of democracy has taken root, the vision of socialism has taken root as well—everywhere but in the United States. Because of this, many false ideas about socialism have developed in the US."

Running the economy and society democratically does not imply daily voting aside from choices made in the marketplace.
 
This is from the About page on Democratic Socialists of America.
What is Democratic Socialism?
Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

Both the economy and society. That's everything.
Your link:

"Democracy and socialism go hand in hand. All over the world, wherever the idea of democracy has taken root, the vision of socialism has taken root as well—everywhere but in the United States. Because of this, many false ideas about socialism have developed in the US."

Running the economy and society democratically does not imply daily voting aside from choices made in the marketplace.

Don't embarrass yourself trying to weasel out of it. On that website, they make it clear that want both society and the economy run democratically. I think that would be horrible.
 
Just because they are in opposition doesn't mean they don't want the same thing - ie power. Both worldviews are collectivist in nature, seeing the state and society as synonymous.
States and societies and corporations are collectivist in nature.
So far all three institutions have reserved power for a very small minority of individuals, primarily very rich individuals. The "rugged individualist" is just another myth spun by those who imagine themselves mankind's masters:

adam-smith-quote-lbk6u7w.jpg

"Social ownership could take many forms, such as worker-owned cooperatives or publicly owned enterprises managed by workers and consumer representatives.

"Democratic socialists favour as much decentralisation as possible.

"While the large concentrations of capital in industries such as energy and steel may necessitate some form of state ownership, many consumer-goods industries might be best run as cooperatives."

Democratic socialism - Wikipedia
 
Just because they are in opposition doesn't mean they don't want the same thing - ie power. Both worldviews are collectivist in nature, seeing the state and society as synonymous.
States and societies and corporations are collectivist in nature.

Nope. Society isn't by nature collectivist. I have zero interest in arm-wrestling with you over the term "collectivist", so let's skip that before it starts. I prefer freedom to state control. Sorry.
 
Liberals love this phrase. Maybe I have a limited vocabulary, but I wasn't really sure what "fettered" meant. So I looked it up:



Any questions?

Capitalism sucks. Anybody who thinks money makes right sucks too. Because only right makes right.
 
Depends on how much you pay for it. If the stock prices goes down, the corporation has less leverage, less power. I'm surprised you don't know this.
If I buy a hundred shares of Microsoft stock from you, how much of my money goes to Microsoft?

I'm not going to explain economics to you george. If you don't get it, you don't get it. I don't really care.
 

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