How much energy is lost when you drag the empties back to the surface?
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Ultimate energy source
- Thread starter watchingfromafar
- Start date
How much energy is lost when you drag the empties back to the surface?
the other mike
Diamond Member
We have perpetual energy all around us --gravity, wind, solar, tidal, geothermal and in fact the earth is orbiting the sun in perpetual motion at 19 miles per second, or 67,000 miles per hour...
BuckToothMoron
Gold Member
- Apr 3, 2016
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If you drop a 10 lb. iron ball from the roof of a 10-story building and it hits a concrete sidewalk, was the impact more or less than 10 lb’s-?
Since the impact created more of an impact than a 10 lb. ball dropped from a height of 5 feet; was energy created or not-?
-
Stop with the “creating energy” already. Energy can not be created nor destroyed. A 10# ball ten feet high has potential energy. When it is falling it represents kinetic energy. The impact on the concrete is momentum which is mass x velocity.
JoeMoma
Platinum Member
- Nov 22, 2014
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You are a lot better with physics that you are with logic BTM.If you drop a 10 lb. iron ball from the roof of a 10-story building and it hits a concrete sidewalk, was the impact more or less than 10 lb’s-?
Since the impact created more of an impact than a 10 lb. ball dropped from a height of 5 feet; was energy created or not-?
Stop with the “creating energy” already. Energy can not be created nor destroyed. A 10# ball ten feet high has potential energy. When it is falling it represents kinetic energy. The impact on the concrete is momentum which is mass x velocity.
BuckToothMoron
Gold Member
- Apr 3, 2016
- 9,895
- 1,898
- 290
We have perpetual energy all around us --gravity, wind, solar, tidal, geothermal and in fact the earth is orbiting the sun in perpetual motion at 19 miles per second, or 67,000 miles per hour...
Wrong-a-reno Ang. None of those are perpetual energy. The sun is a giant ball of gas and it is burning away. Some billions of years from now it will be gone. From the sun we derive much of the energy which causes tides and winds. Gravity is a force, not energy. All the other things have life spans as well. Your general understanding of basic physics needs help. Here ya go, do yourself a favor and take this free online physics course.
FearOfPhysics.com: A free online physics course
BuckToothMoron
Gold Member
- Apr 3, 2016
- 9,895
- 1,898
- 290
You are a lot better with physics that you are with logic BTM.If you drop a 10 lb. iron ball from the roof of a 10-story building and it hits a concrete sidewalk, was the impact more or less than 10 lb’s-?
Since the impact created more of an impact than a 10 lb. ball dropped from a height of 5 feet; was energy created or not-?
Stop with the “creating energy” already. Energy can not be created nor destroyed. A 10# ball ten feet high has potential energy. When it is falling it represents kinetic energy. The impact on the concrete is momentum which is mass x velocity.
I’m better than you at both.
JoeMoma
Platinum Member
- Nov 22, 2014
- 22,912
- 10,628
- 950
You are a lot better with physics that you are with logic BTM.If you drop a 10 lb. iron ball from the roof of a 10-story building and it hits a concrete sidewalk, was the impact more or less than 10 lb’s-?
Since the impact created more of an impact than a 10 lb. ball dropped from a height of 5 feet; was energy created or not-?
Stop with the “creating energy” already. Energy can not be created nor destroyed. A 10# ball ten feet high has potential energy. When it is falling it represents kinetic energy. The impact on the concrete is momentum which is mass x velocity.
I’m better than you at both.
No energy was created by this post.
Last edited:
the other mike
Diamond Member
For our intents and purposes those are all perpetual energy.We have perpetual energy all around us --gravity, wind, solar, tidal, geothermal and in fact the earth is orbiting the sun in perpetual motion at 19 miles per second, or 67,000 miles per hour...
Wrong-a-reno Ang. None of those are perpetual energy. The sun is a giant ball of gas and it is burning away. Some billions of years from now it will be gone. From the sun we derive much of the energy which causes tides and winds. Gravity is a force, not energy. All the other things have life spans as well. Your general understanding of basic physics needs help. Here ya go, do yourself a favor and take this free online physics course.
FearOfPhysics.com: A free online physics course
Not by definition, exactly, but with the exception of solar (day and night ) and wind (varies with weather), all of the ones I mentioned are continuously-flowing, constantly-moving energy sources and I'm guessing that's pretty close to the definition of 'perpetual'.
Last edited:
- Aug 6, 2017
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- Thread starter
- #189
The “empties” contain air and as the air rises it expands pushing water out; For every cubic foot of water pushed out and replaced with air this creates an upward force of 64 lbsHow much energy is lost when you drag the empties back to the surface?
-
The “empties” contain air and as the air rises it expands pushing water out; For every cubic foot of water pushed out and replaced with air this creates an upward force of 64 lbsHow much energy is lost when you drag the empties back to the surface?
The “empties” contain air and as the air rises it expands pushing water out;
Your empty scuba tanks are rising.....how?
the other mike
Diamond Member
I gotta try this balloon experiment .
Intro to Boyle's Law
Pressure Volume Relationships
We are used to living at 1 ATM of pressure, so we rarely even take notice of it. We normally don't feel the pressure on us because the human body is primarily made up of liquid, and liquids are basically non compressible. At times, however, we do notice changes of pressure, primarily in our ears. You may have noticed your ears "popping" when flying, driving in the mountains, or even going up and down in elevators. This is because our ears have an air space in them, and air, like all other gases, is compressible.
A gas will compress proportionately to the amount of pressure exerted on it. For example, if you have a 1 cubic foot balloon and double the pressure on it, it will be compressed to 1/2 cubic foot. Increase the pressure by 4, and the volume will drop to 1/4 the size etc. This theory was discovered by Sir Robert Boyle, a 17th century scientist. The theory known as Boyle's Law states: If the temperature remains constant, the volume of a given mass of gas is inversely proportional to the absolute pressure.
Let's follow an example...
Suppose you had a balloon measuring one cubic foot at the surface of the water. This balloon is under 1 ATM (14.7 psi) of pressure. If we push the balloon underwater, and take it to a depth of 33 feet, it is now under 2 ATM of pressure (29.4 lbs) - 1 ATM of pressure from the air, 1 ATM of pressure from the water. Boyle's Law then tells us that since we have twice the absolute pressure, the volume of the balloon will be decreased to one half. It follows then, that taking the balloon to 66 feet, the pressure would compress the balloon to one third its original size, 99 feet would make it 1/4 etc.
If we bring the balloon in the previous example back up to the surface, it would increase in size due to the lessening pressure until it reached the surface and returned to its one cubic foot size. This is because the air in the balloon is compressed from the pressure when submerged, but returns to its normal size and pressure when it returns to the surface.
We will achieve the same result with an open container, such as an inverted bottle, as we do with a balloon. By inverting a bottle at the surface and descending with it, the pressure from the surrounding water will compress the air and the bottle will start to fill with water. Even with no air escaping, the container will be half full of water at a depth of 33 feet due to the pressure compressing the air to half its original volume.
Along with the volume of air in the balloon or container, the surrounding pressure will affect the density of the air as well. Density, simply stated, is how close the air molecules are packed together. The air in the balloon or container at the surface is at its standard density, but when we descend to the 33-foot level where its volume is reduced to one half, the density has doubled. At 66 feet, the density has tripled. This is because the pressure has pushed the air molecules closer together.
Let's continue with this line of thinking and try an additional experiment. If we take our balloon and our open container down to 99 feet, we know that the density of air is four times what is was on the surface and the volume of air has been reduced to 1/4. Now at this depth, suppose we used a scuba tank and added air to the balloon until it returned to its original size. We will also blow air into the inverted container until it is completely full of air.
We know the air at this depth is 4 times denser than at the surface. This means when we ascend with our balloon and container, the lessening pressure will make the air expand. This will have two different effects. The balloon will increase in size. It will attempt to grow to a size of 4 cubic feet by the time it hits the surface. If this is beyond the capability of the balloon, it will pop. The inverted container, however, will simply "bleed off" the expanding air that will harmlessly float away as bubbles.
The main purpose of the proceeding material was to give you the theory behind the most important rule in scuba diving... "Never hold your breath!" Your lungs can act very much like a pair of balloons in your chest. As a breath hold diver (skin diver), if you fill your lungs with air at the surface, hold your breath, and dive to a depth of 33 feet, the surrounding pressure will compress your lungs to half of their original size. Upon ascending, they will return to normal size. If however, you descend to 33 feet and breath compressed air from a scuba tank, an ascent to the surface could cause you lungs to over expand and you could seriously injure yourself.
This is easy to avoid, however, by simply not holding your breath which will let your lungs act like the open container in the preceding example, and you will simply "bleed off" the expanding air and maintain a normal lung capacity.
Intro to Boyle's Law
Pressure Volume Relationships
We are used to living at 1 ATM of pressure, so we rarely even take notice of it. We normally don't feel the pressure on us because the human body is primarily made up of liquid, and liquids are basically non compressible. At times, however, we do notice changes of pressure, primarily in our ears. You may have noticed your ears "popping" when flying, driving in the mountains, or even going up and down in elevators. This is because our ears have an air space in them, and air, like all other gases, is compressible.
A gas will compress proportionately to the amount of pressure exerted on it. For example, if you have a 1 cubic foot balloon and double the pressure on it, it will be compressed to 1/2 cubic foot. Increase the pressure by 4, and the volume will drop to 1/4 the size etc. This theory was discovered by Sir Robert Boyle, a 17th century scientist. The theory known as Boyle's Law states: If the temperature remains constant, the volume of a given mass of gas is inversely proportional to the absolute pressure.
Let's follow an example...
Suppose you had a balloon measuring one cubic foot at the surface of the water. This balloon is under 1 ATM (14.7 psi) of pressure. If we push the balloon underwater, and take it to a depth of 33 feet, it is now under 2 ATM of pressure (29.4 lbs) - 1 ATM of pressure from the air, 1 ATM of pressure from the water. Boyle's Law then tells us that since we have twice the absolute pressure, the volume of the balloon will be decreased to one half. It follows then, that taking the balloon to 66 feet, the pressure would compress the balloon to one third its original size, 99 feet would make it 1/4 etc.
If we bring the balloon in the previous example back up to the surface, it would increase in size due to the lessening pressure until it reached the surface and returned to its one cubic foot size. This is because the air in the balloon is compressed from the pressure when submerged, but returns to its normal size and pressure when it returns to the surface.
We will achieve the same result with an open container, such as an inverted bottle, as we do with a balloon. By inverting a bottle at the surface and descending with it, the pressure from the surrounding water will compress the air and the bottle will start to fill with water. Even with no air escaping, the container will be half full of water at a depth of 33 feet due to the pressure compressing the air to half its original volume.
Along with the volume of air in the balloon or container, the surrounding pressure will affect the density of the air as well. Density, simply stated, is how close the air molecules are packed together. The air in the balloon or container at the surface is at its standard density, but when we descend to the 33-foot level where its volume is reduced to one half, the density has doubled. At 66 feet, the density has tripled. This is because the pressure has pushed the air molecules closer together.
Let's continue with this line of thinking and try an additional experiment. If we take our balloon and our open container down to 99 feet, we know that the density of air is four times what is was on the surface and the volume of air has been reduced to 1/4. Now at this depth, suppose we used a scuba tank and added air to the balloon until it returned to its original size. We will also blow air into the inverted container until it is completely full of air.
We know the air at this depth is 4 times denser than at the surface. This means when we ascend with our balloon and container, the lessening pressure will make the air expand. This will have two different effects. The balloon will increase in size. It will attempt to grow to a size of 4 cubic feet by the time it hits the surface. If this is beyond the capability of the balloon, it will pop. The inverted container, however, will simply "bleed off" the expanding air that will harmlessly float away as bubbles.
The main purpose of the proceeding material was to give you the theory behind the most important rule in scuba diving... "Never hold your breath!" Your lungs can act very much like a pair of balloons in your chest. As a breath hold diver (skin diver), if you fill your lungs with air at the surface, hold your breath, and dive to a depth of 33 feet, the surrounding pressure will compress your lungs to half of their original size. Upon ascending, they will return to normal size. If however, you descend to 33 feet and breath compressed air from a scuba tank, an ascent to the surface could cause you lungs to over expand and you could seriously injure yourself.
This is easy to avoid, however, by simply not holding your breath which will let your lungs act like the open container in the preceding example, and you will simply "bleed off" the expanding air and maintain a normal lung capacity.
the other mike
Diamond Member
A little history lesson.
Unbeknownst to both Nikola Tesla and Edgar Cayce at the time, Thomas Townsend Brown was directly acting under orders from the Nazi military-industrial complex that had coordinated the multi-generational espionage activity and counter-intelligence cover-up of Tesla's finest inventions. The timing of corporate subterfuge and manipulations that surrounded the world's greatest inventor are only now becoming evident, having been obscured by the horrors of war and corporate commandeering of world industry.
http://www.human-resonance.org/gravity_motor.html
Unbeknownst to both Nikola Tesla and Edgar Cayce at the time, Thomas Townsend Brown was directly acting under orders from the Nazi military-industrial complex that had coordinated the multi-generational espionage activity and counter-intelligence cover-up of Tesla's finest inventions. The timing of corporate subterfuge and manipulations that surrounded the world's greatest inventor are only now becoming evident, having been obscured by the horrors of war and corporate commandeering of world industry.
http://www.human-resonance.org/gravity_motor.html
the other mike
Diamond Member
Last edited:
- Aug 6, 2017
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- Thread starter
- #194
Angelo, thank you for your well-informed post. After reading your post I have discovered the flaw in my reasoning. The volume of air does expand as it rises to the surface, but the number of air molecules does not change. The only thing that does change is the distance between the air molecules. My diagram states that 36 cubic feet of air is injected in the lower balloon. The balloon at the surface ends up with 26,244 CF, not 1,047,198,000 cubic feet of air. There is a flaw in my thinking.A little history lesson.
Following is the process-
At 18 ATM, 594 feet down, the balloon is injected with air that is compressed to 36 cubic feet.
At 15 ATM that same 36 cubic feet will expand to 108 CF
At 12 ATM that same 36 cubic feet will expand to 324 CF
At 9 ATM that same 36 cubic feet will expand to 972 CF
At 6 ATM that same 36 cubic feet will expand to 2,916 CF
At 3 ATM that same 36 cubic feet will expand to 8,748 CF
At 1 ATM that same 36 cubic feet will expand to 26,244 CF
Having stated the above, the combined lifting force is---
39,058 CF X 64 lbs. = 2,499,712-foot lbs. of lifting force.
Angelo, I am now trying to convert the energy created to horsepower to watts?
Can you help me on this-?
1 Horsepower = 33000 Foot-pounds per minute
Angelo, can you help me on this-?
The buckets are rising at two (2) feet per second.
-
Last edited:
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- #195
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- #197
did any of you guys pass high school baby chemistry and baby physics?
If you have something constructive to say; please do so
-
the other mike
Diamond Member
What about setting it up the way they would tidal energy turbines or even to assist each other .
This would be a good question for my little brother who's an aerospace engineer or somebody like Neil Degrasse Tyson. A lot of it's over my head, but I'm happy to contribute whatever I can.
This would be a good question for my little brother who's an aerospace engineer or somebody like Neil Degrasse Tyson. A lot of it's over my head, but I'm happy to contribute whatever I can.
the other mike
Diamond Member
Seriously. He/she sounds like a spoiled rich kid who never worked a day, and knows everything.did any of you guys pass high school baby chemistry and baby physics?
If you have something constructive to say; please do so
- Aug 6, 2017
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- #200
Seriously. He/she sounds like a spoiled rich kid who never worked a day, and knows everything.
Ok, now you have hurt my feelings.
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