Ukraine, Losing In Donbass...

[AlexanderPK]

Ok, so you are expressing your opinion, and that's alright, and we are giving you our opinion's that hopefully give you pause on your theories or assumptions if taken in that way.

I really don't think Russia is looking anywhere outside of Ukraine to increase Russia's influence (I could be wrong), otherwise wouldn't you think that Putin just wants Russian Ukranian's to be safe and respected by the government of Ukraine, and by that task he's not really out to challenge NATO ??

If he were that crazy to be looking to challenge NATO, we'd already be in world war 3 by now correct ??

Off-topic question: why do Americans always put apostrophes where they shouldn't be put? I see that very often and it involuntarily catches the eye

 

[AlexanderPK]

Your chmobiks are disappearing with the same speed.

Of course we are, on your TV, which equals to in your dreams, and Sky News. Look at the cemeteries, dipshit.

 

[ESay]

Of course we are, on your TV, which equals to in your dreams, and Sky News. Look at the cemeteries, dipshit.

Oh you believe your dumb Genshtab's narratives that Russia doesn't suffer casualties at all.

 

[alexa]

The map above only shows how trolls entertain themselves, but is useless for any other purpose.

Have you seen Litwin's provided a few times each day?

Is this the attitude that will “Make America Great Again”? Let us remember our country already fought in two world wars, the Second to protect Europe

You fought the 2nd world war because of the attack on Pearl Harbour. One thing which I did not know before but heard recently you had already been fighting on non violent ways with Japan so it was not quite the 'unprovoked attack it has always been made out to be.

and the world from fascism. That Second World War set the stage for the U.S. to become the pre-eminent capitalist democracy. Without participating in the latter, would the U.S. ever have become … “Great”?

That is what the US expected itself to be. The pre-eminent power world power. The cold war made them hold back for some time. Is there ever a good reason for one power to be able to 'rule the world' as the US wanted?

Then, after the U.S. “won” its Cold War with the USSR,

'won the cold war'. Ah that would be won what was holding the US back from its pre-eminent position in the world which it believed in deserved since WW2. As Jeffry Sachs has said time and again, the US worked to make sure Russia would not succeed. Eastern Europe yes but Russia no. Now it is using Ukraine to try and finish what it started and 'weaken' Russia in part to set the stage better for the US's war with China.

Eastern Europe became part of the democratic “free world,” but the Russia Federation slipped back into one man dictatorial rule. Not “communist” … but something ugly, sort of a petro-based mafia security state, with capitalist oligarchs running the economy so long as they follow Putin.

How can you criticise Russia as a 'mafia security state' when not noticing that your own state is very much like that with lots of criminality in it. Bolton etc.

The world is tied together — and may be torn apart — in countless ways. Only very naive or very cowardly people can think that absolute isolationism is a strategy that can “Make America Great Again.” It can’t even help to make the world a better or safer place.

There are good arguments to be made for a less interventionist U.S. policy in various parts of the world

OMG. Well done, You noticed. As a German minister said recently the US has not won a war since WW2. It has fought many, caused millions of deaths but it has not won any. The US is not a State that believes in Diplomacy. It believes in Freedom only in the extent it believes in freedom for Neo Liberalism. How can you possibly believe the US is the propaganda you are regurgitating? I say that in part because I have often agreed with you but this absolutely is propaganda and I am going to include a video which explains that and the real situation.

— certainly for a less imperialist role for Uncle Sam. One group that consistently raises serious objections to overly interventionist U.S. foreign policy, not from a “leftist” point of view either, is here:

Responsible Statecraft

Responsible Statecraft is the online magazine of the Quincy Institute, providing independent news and analysis on the intersection of foreign policy restraint, national security, and democracy. Learn more about our mission today!

responsiblestatecraft.org

There is something in this group which you find acceptable which you would not find if they did not believe in the US ruling the world?

The problem with most MAGA Republicans (and knee-jerk isolationist “leftists” too) is that they can’t think about world problems seriously. Most see the Ukraine War in narrow domestic partisan terms. If Biden and NATO defend Ukraine, sending it military aid to defend itself, they will support Russia and make excuses for Putin’s invasion.

Oh boy. Your arrogance knows no bounds. Again given that previously I have tended to agree with you very disappointing. MAGA has absolutely nothing to do with this. Some of them may have a liking for the Russians but in the main it seems to be the game the citizens of the US always play. Whatever the other party is doing, the other does not agree with and the Dems are very much setting themselves up now as the 'war' party. People who cannot take alternative views in a society they ca,ll 'free'. I also find your talk of 'the left' as if everyone who was on the left thinks identically and can be distained and dismissed simply because you identify them as one voice is simply another sign that you are just someone who follows propaganda, it would appear from what you say right wing propaganda and that you never look at extremely good oppositional arguments. In the video I shall now put you will see what I am talking about as propaganda and the situation much as it is.

 

[alexa]

All this stuff is interesting, and now we'll hear the counter points we hope. Only way to learn.

The only thing which is new in what Prashad says, is his view, taken from the way they fought and what land they seem after, which he believes makes this possible, is the desire by Russia to have a land corridor from Crimea to Russia not least to provide them with water. That is his view. The others are views which have already been given again and again. He simply has an unusually large intellectually studied space to bring things together and is more able than most to put things succinctly. He would appear also to be unusual in putting these things together where they belong. rather than as competing reasons. I don't think there is anything in what he says which has not already been shown to be true apart from the 'land corridor'.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Oh you believe your dumb Genshtab's narratives that Russia doesn't suffer casualties at all.

Suffers, at 1 to 10 ratio.
I sometimes watch your chatroulette dimwits who, drunk most of the times or god knows under what influence, boast of their brave army on their way to Crimea and loads of black bags they have at the ready to accommodate vatniks that keep piling up at their backyards. But you sense unease most of the time lurking down there under the vale of bravado you seem to be displaying too.

 

[ESay]

Suffers, at 1 to 10 ratio.
I sometimes watch your chatroulette dimwits who, drunk most of the times or god knows under what influence, boast of their brave army on their way to Crimea and loads of black bags they have at the ready to accommodate vatniks that keep piling up at their backyards. But you sense unease most of the time lurking down there under the vale of bravado you seem to be displaying too.

1 to 10. Why is it so high? Maybe 0.01 to 10.

I am far from bravado, I think. I have already made it clear that in Ukraine's interests it is better to shift to a defence strategy rather than seeking to liberate new territories.

 

[Ringo]

Americans have been looking for idiots for a long time who will die for their interests, bringing profits to military companies. For a long time they propagandized and supported nationalists and outspoken Nazis.
They found them in the face of freaks in Ukraine.

 

[AlexanderPK]

1 to 10. Why is it so high? Maybe 0.01 to 10.

You wouldn't want me to lie, would you?

 

[ESay]

You wouldn't want me to lie, would you?

Well, I thought it is obligatory for a Putin regime supporter.

 

[BothWings]

But Western Media tells us that the Ukes are totally dominating the Russians. Meanwhile back in reality...
View attachment 747373

And Ukraine needs more money, more aid, and even more sophisticated equipment just to hold on...

You cannot trust national news in either country really. All both of them do is throw a spotlight on their own victories while playing the victim. However, rest assured that things are a bit different there than we have been led to believe in the West.

I hope no one thinks then times of War the civilian public of any Nation here's the details of what's really going on overseas. It's the nature of intelligence in any war and it simply makes sense.

 

[Flash]

I saw a report a couple of days ago where the Z-Orcs were bragging they had destroyed four Bradley Fighting Vehicles that the US gave Ukraine as part of the newest aid package.

The only thing is that none of the BFVs have been deployed yet. The Ukrainians are in Poland being trained on the vehicles and none of them have been delivered to Ukraine.

You can't believe anything the Z-Orcs say.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Have you seen Litwin's [maps] provided a few times each day?
…
You fought the 2nd world war because of the attack on Pearl Harbour. One thing which I did not know before but heard recently you had already been fighting on non violent ways with Japan so it was not quite the 'unprovoked attack it has always been made out to be.
…
That is what the US expected itself to be. The pre-eminent power world power. The cold war made them hold back for some time. Is there ever a good reason for one power to be able to 'rule the world' as the US wanted?
…
'won the cold war'. Ah that would be won what was holding the US back from its pre-eminent position in the world which it believed in deserved since WW2. As Jeffry Sachs has said time and again, the US worked to make sure Russia would not succeed. Eastern Europe yes but Russia no. Now it is using Ukraine to try and finish what it started and 'weaken' Russia in part to set the stage better for the US's war with China.
…
How can you criticise Russia as a 'mafia security state' when not noticing that your own state is very much like that with lots of criminality in it. Bolton etc. …. OMG. Well done, You noticed. As a German minister said recently the US has not won a war since WW2. It has fought many, caused millions of deaths but it has not won any. The US is not a State that believes in Diplomacy. It believes in Freedom only in the extent it believes in freedom for Neo Liberalism. How can you possibly believe the US is the propaganda you are regurgitating? I say that in part because I have often agreed with you but this absolutely is propaganda and I am going to include a video which explains that and the real situation.
…
There is something in this group [Responsable Statecraft] which you find acceptable which you would not find if they did not believe in the US ruling the world?
…
Oh boy. Your arrogance knows no bounds. Again given that previously I have tended to agree with you very disappointing. MAGA has absolutely nothing to do with this. Some of them may have a liking for the Russians but in the main it seems to be the game the citizens of the US always play. Whatever the other party is doing, the other does not agree with and the Dems are very much setting themselves up now as the 'war' party. People who cannot take alternative views in a society they ca,ll 'free'. I also find your talk of 'the left' as if everyone who was on the left thinks identically and can be distained and dismissed simply because you identify them as one voice is simply another sign that you are just someone who follows propaganda, it would appear from what you say right wing propaganda and that you never look at extremely good oppositional arguments. In the video I shall now put you will see what I am talking about as propaganda and the situation much as it is.
…

I mostly agree with your views on, and approach to, the tragic war in Ukraine. My comment (#191 above) that you object to was directed mainly to MAGA American isolationists, and meant to point out the shallowness and contradictions in their own world views about what they once believed and now believe made the U.S.A. — “America” (Lol!) — a strong and powerful nation. I don’t pay much attention to the Litwins or Barons here at USMB, as I suppose you must. I do read Geoffrey Sachs and pay close attention to his and similar views.

Please note I used a lot of quote marks to emphasize that U.S. views of “Greatness” and our wars for “freedom & democracy” in the past were often fraudulent. I didn’t mention WWI which was certainly nothing but an inter-imperialist war. As you point out even U.S. participation in WWII was a matter of economic / political interests & power much more than … ideals. We are both realists, I think.

Imo, all American wars, occupations, and policies in the Middle East are ultimately about U.S. oil imperialism (and geo-political interests), our support to coups in Latin America and our sanctions and hybrid wars around the world have been and still are — as you imply — mostly the result of Wall Street and its extended financial empire struggling for world dominance.

Nevertheless, I’m sure you also recognize there remains substantial and meaningful difference between on the one hand Western societies that generally allow and cherish more freedoms for individuals and opposition groups, and on the other hand “one man” or “one party” dictatorships like Putin’s Russia or XiJinpings “Socialism with Chinese Characteristics.” There are historical reasons for these differences, of course, but they cannot be denied.

I’m convinced that we agree on much more than we disagree on.

 

[AlexanderPK]

I saw a report a couple of days ago where the Z-Orcs were bragging they had destroyed four Bradley Fighting Vehicles that the US gave Ukraine as part of the newest aid package.

The only thing is that none of the BFVs have been deployed yet. The Ukrainians are in Poland being trained on the vehicles and none of them have been delivered to Ukraine.

You can't believe anything the Z-Orcs say.

You saw that on a Ukie site and that says everything. I saw how the regulars there exploded in extasy, just like you highly likely did but nothing of the kind had in fact been said. You have been duped again.

Here's a glaring example of how it works:

 

[Flash]

You saw that on a Ukie site and that says everything. I saw how the regulars there exploded in extasy, just like you highly likely did but nothing of the kind had in fact been said. You have been duped again.

Here's a glaring example of how it works:

Actually the report that the BFVs were destroyed came from a pro Russian site.

Fuck the Z-Orcs.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Actually the report that the BFVs were destroyed came from a pro Russian site.

Fuck the Z-Orcs.

As the Ukie site reported, right?

 

[Ringo]

Actually the report that the BFVs were destroyed came from a pro Russian site.

I read on a ukrainian website yesterday that the Apache helicopters they received have already destroyed 80 Russian tanks. What do you think is not true in this message?

 

[ESay]

I read on a ukrainian website yesterday that the Apache helicopters they received have already destroyed 80 Russian tanks. What do you think is not true in this message?

That you can read obviously.

 

[Ringo]

That you can read obviously.

Leave the comedy routine for professionals, stick to what you do best - Bandera's cock sucking

 

[ESay]

Leave the comedy routine for professionals, stick to what you do best - Bandera's cock sucking

No, thanks. You can keep him for own fantasies.