ukraine and russia …. which side are you on?

[Zebra]

No i mean the fascists in kiev and the Nato fascists helping them.

fascists?

 

[Deadstick]

fascists?

Yes fascists.

 

[Ringo]

I have this from the practice of communicating with ukrainians:
1) Сomplete denial of any unity of history (Russia is an occupier, they do not perceive that in the Middle Ages there were no nations at all), refusal to perceive Ukraine as an integral and equal part of the Russian empire and USSR.
2) In Russia, outside Moscow and a little bit of St. Petersburg, the standard of living as in Africa.... As in poor Africa.
3)Russia have forced mobilization, people just don't notice (!) because of propaganda.
4) Ignoring any arguments that world political processes are extremely complex and multifaceted, and that Putin/Russia should be blamed for everything. => Denying part of the blame for Ukraine.

These are still those who at least recognize russians as slavs. There are darker pools of Ukro-consciousness...

 

[Baron]

ukraine or russia?

The first question should be which tribesmen send two brothers to kill each other.
Guess who is behind criminals like Putin, Zelensky, Biden and another warmongers.
Which 'religion' almost all of them belong to?
Both Ukraine and Russia are victims of the war against white christians

 

[Ringo]

At least 25 people were killed today after Ukrainian forces shelled a market in the west of Donetsk. At least 20 people were injured, including two children.
Not having enough shells to defeat the Russian army, the Nazis decided to kill civilians.

 

[Zebra]

At least 25 people were killed today after Ukrainian forces shelled a market in the west of Donetsk. At least 20 people were injured, including two children.
Not having enough shells to defeat the Russian army, the Nazis decided to kill civilians.

russia is killing more civilians …

 

[Ringo]

russia is killing more civilians …

An indirect confirmation of the enemy's failures is the shelling of Donetsk.
There is practically no counter-battery from them, but they found shells to kill civilians. I don't think there will be many prisoners from Avdeevka, especially among artillerymen.

 

[Billo_Really]

ukraine or russia?

Conservatives are for Russia; liberals are for Ukraine.

 

[Silver Cat]

I think I need to emphasize the combination of influence/power, and the value placed on general human rights. What you bring up is interesting, I didn't know about that document, but the state that made it was conquered by the Mongols 800 years ago and did not have the means (like the USA does) to promote humanist ideals. Russia and China do have the means, but they don't have any interest in promoting human rights, even in their own country for their own people.

Really? Didn't you hear about Communistic international in Soviet times, or, say, about Wagner group?

And I fully agree that the USA is hypocritical, this is a result of multiple interests competing to drive policy. Still, while I believe this interest in humanist ideals is missing in the other big countries, we need to do better, ultimately this would help all of us gain trust.


Well, while we aren't perfect, it isn't Americans leaving for Russia.

Actually, few days ago, the Russians bombed New York, a town in Donetsk region of Ukraine. It was founded by Americans who left America for Russia. Talking about nowadays there are some celebrities, who decided to emigrate in Russia from the USA.
For instance, Natalia Oreiro, who lived in Uruguay, Argentina, Spain, United States, finally decided to become a Russian citizen and live in Russia.



Or, say, Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa, the perfect villain of Hollywood, who was born in Japan, lived in the USA, but finally became a citizen of Russian Federation.


Actually, there are thousands of Americans living and working in Russia.

I don't know, but with so much political chaos, I'm not sure Ukraine will have much support for long. It could be that this year we see some serious negotiations and then peace.

But who said, that the Russians are going to participate in those negotiations?

 

[Insaneworld]

Really? Didn't you hear about Communistic international in Soviet times, or, say, about Wagner group?

What humanistic ideas can you point to that these supposedly helped to champion?

For God's sake, you are referencing the wagner group... they are responsible for many massacres in Africa, massacres of innocents, mass rapes. Like, I figured we were having an honest conversation here. I'm willing to accept that the USA has done much wrong in the world, are you willing to do the same for the state you seem to cheer for here, the USSR/Russia? Because it seems that even their worst parts, like the wagner group, you try to sell as positives...

The founder of this group, dmitry utkin, was a literal nazi, as were many of the leaders that died in that plane. And still, you claim they placed any value on human rights. Really harms your credibility in my opinion.

Actually, few days ago, the Russians bombed New York, a town in Donetsk region of Ukraine. It was founded by Americans who left America for Russia. Talking about nowadays there are some celebrities, who decided to emigrate in Russia from the USA.
For instance, Natalia Oreiro, who lived in Uruguay, Argentina, Spain, United States, finally decided to become a Russian citizen and live in Russia.



Or, say, Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa, the perfect villain of Hollywood, who was born in Japan, lived in the USA, but finally became a citizen of Russian Federation.


Actually, there are thousands of Americans living and working in Russia.

Americans may live in Russia, but not to the same degree as Russians in Europe, or America. You only need to look at our southern border for endless evidence of people risking their lives to illegally make it here. Many of these are Russians, you would never find the same scenario with Americans in Russia.

But who said, that the Russians are going to participate in those negotiations?

Who else? Are they not interested in peace? Or is peace just a nice rhetorical propaganda device for them, as they claim it is for the west?

 

[Silver Cat]

What humanistic ideas can you point to that these supposedly helped to champion?

For God's sake, you are referencing the wagner group... they are responsible for many massacres in Africa, massacres of innocents, mass rapes. Like, I figured we were having an honest conversation here. I'm willing to accept that the USA has done much wrong in the world, are you willing to do the same for the state you seem to cheer for here, the USSR/Russia? Because it seems that even their worst parts, like the wagner group, you try to sell as positives...

The founder of this group, dmitry utkin, was a literal nazi, as were many of the leaders that died in that plane. And still, you claim they placed any value on human rights. Really harms your credibility in my opinion.

There are two different things - propaganda and real actions. Both Russia and the USA use pretty good ideas for their propaganda - human rights, defense of weak and endangered groups, justice, liberation from the colonial yoke and so on... They say "we are good". All of them, including worst human being from Wagner group.


But when it comes to real action, when both of them use military force... Ok, usage of military force is murders, death, destruction of property and many other ugly things. It's inevitable. What is good for one group is pretty bad for another.

Americans may live in Russia, but not to the same degree as Russians in Europe, or America. You only need to look at our southern border for endless evidence of people risking their lives to illegally make it here. Many of these are Russians, you would never find the same scenario with Americans in Russia.

The problem is that Russia is a harsh mistress. They don't need migrants just for their votes. To live and work in Russia, you need to know Russian language and Russian culture, you need money, and, what is most important - you need to work hard. It hardly has something with the actual human rights.

Who else? Are they not interested in peace? Or is peace just a nice rhetorical propaganda device for them, as they claim it is for the west?

They are not interested in peace per se. They are interested in
a) in Ukraine: denazification, demilitarisation and its neutral status.
b) in Europe: returning of NATO military infrastructure to the borders of 1997, withdrawal of American nukes.
c) in the world - demontage of Pax Americana, building of the new, multipolar world.


So, if tomorrow, say, Zelenskiy say: "Ok guys, Crimea and Novorussia are yours, but the rest of Ukraine will be a NATO member (de jury or de facto)", they won't agree.

 

[Ringo]

I have been repeatedly told by trusted comrades from the front that attacks on civilians are almost always carried out by NATO mercenaries, usually Poles. And it is clear that in this case, the AFU can learn about the shelling of peaceful neighborhoods after the fact, already from the shelling, since the orders are given by the US or British handlers.

The meaning of these actions is clear - the accumulation of hostility, so that the Russians did not take the Ukrainians prisoner, so that they began to respond even more harshly, that is, in the end, to twist the spiral of war and create conditions for the impossibility of peaceful resolution of the conflict and reconciliation between Russians and Russians.

And this will continue. The war, according to their plans, should go to the last Ukrainian. And only the inhabitants of Ukraine and their military can stop the curators at this stage.

 

[Ringo]

The strike on Donetsk was carried out with 19 American-made M864 cluster munitions with a bottom gas generator to increase the range of fire.The shelling was carried out by two M109 self-propelled rocket launchers from the area of Kurakhovo!

So... the US political leadership are murderers and criminals?

Ukrainians! Do you know why your faggot government is hitting public places in Russia, in particular the market in Donetsk? So that Russians would hit your markets in response , kill you more, and they will beg for money for another villa in Monaco. You are just cattle, even for Zelensky, not to mention the ghouls in Washington.

 

[krichton]

No one is for Russia invading a neighbor... maybe .05% of members here support Russia's aggression.
But because one doesn't support $100 BILLION of our hard earned tax dollars being thrown at the problem carelessly - doesn't mean they "support Russia".
Just because someone brings up the fact that Ukraine is not a democracy, and Zelensky is literally a tyrant also does not mean they "support Russia"
But the media and simple minded sheep demand total support or you are a "Putin lover".
Simply ridiculous.

The US has spent around 3+% of it's defense budget on supplying Ukraine, which has resulted in severly dregrading Russia's military for decades, and this war isn't over yet. Another year or two of this and we Russia could very well collapse. If nothing else they won't have much of a military left and no way to rebuild a new one, and you're somehow against this?? The US military has never spent money wiser. Yeah, you're not a russian sympathizer at all, nope! You just like to spread Russian propaganda, that's all.

 

[krichton]

I never thought I would like a Russian leader more than an American leader (or, in our case, clown) but Putin is simply more likeable than Bumbling Biden the kid sniffer. And I despise that little faggot Khazar running Ukraine.

Thank you for being honest. I don't know why the far right is so afraid to simply admit that they prefer a dictator and fascism.

 

[Zebra]

2 for ukraine
0 for
russia

now ….

11 for ukraine

 

[ActionJackson]

Thank you for being honest. I don't know why the far right is so afraid to simply admit that they prefer a dictator and fascism.

Actually ... I'm not really that fond of Biden. Not sure what gave you that idea.

 

[Deadstick]

I have this from the practice of communicating with ukrainians:
1) Сomplete denial of any unity of history (Russia is an occupier, they do not perceive that in the Middle Ages there were no nations at all), refusal to perceive Ukraine as an integral and equal part of the Russian empire and USSR.
2) In Russia, outside Moscow and a little bit of St. Petersburg, the standard of living as in Africa.... As in poor Africa.
3)Russia have forced mobilization, people just don't notice (!) because of propaganda.
4) Ignoring any arguments that world political processes are extremely complex and multifaceted, and that Putin/Russia should be blamed for everything. => Denying part of the blame for Ukraine.

These are still those who at least recognize russians as slavs. There are darker pools of Ukro-consciousness...

What i find funny is those Ukrainians who supported the Nazis were still thought of by their masters as untermench, they never learn these people have a slave mentality, with the Nazis it was stockholm syndrome on steroids, now they have enslaved half the Country to the US Reich, it's cost them hundreds of thousands dead.

 

[Deadstick]

The US has spent around 3+% of it's defense budget on supplying Ukraine, which has resulted in severly dregrading Russia's military for decades, and this war isn't over yet. Another year or two of this and we Russia could very well collapse. If nothing else they won't have much of a military left and no way to rebuild a new one, and you're somehow against this?? The US military has never spent money wiser. Yeah, you're not a russian sympathizer at all, nope! You just like to spread Russian propaganda, that's all.

You are living in a world of delusion.

 

[Ringo]

Former World Bank chief Robert Zoellick is calling for the transfer of Russia's frozen assets to Ukraine in the pages of the Financial Times today, calling it "elegant justice. The argument: "If countries know that they cannot annex their neighbor's territory without losing access to their assets, that's a good thing."
Now, if we suggest seizing U.S. assets and handing them over to Mexico as "elegant justice" in response to the illegal annexation of Texas, how many minutes will Zoellick be silently gasping for air in amazement?