UK Moves to Deny Surgery to Smokers

[Annie]

there is an aspect of 'big brother' here, I will admit, but my guess is that smokers who wish to pay for operations out of pocket would get treated in a timely fashion.

If taxpayers are paying the freight, some risk management assumptions are appropriate to be made.

I doubt that anyone would think twice if a 90 year old patient were turned down by their insurance company for a heart transplant....a similar assumption.

Let's redefine 'high risk.' Bad genes, pay. Bad lifestyle, pay. The only ones with low rates, good genes and good behavior. Optimal weight, body fat, blood sugar, blood pressure, pulse, resting and working heart rates. All others, fuck off.

Which is cool. I want the restaurants/bars to all go non-smoking, non-meat, non-cholestrol. How long are restaurants expecting to be in business, cause God knows, bars in such should have closed a millenia ago.

 

[TheStripey1]

I am not familiar with British law. Are people allowed to opt out of government-supplied insurance and/or purchase private insurance?

no clue... but I think that if you can afford it there are plenty of medical facilities across the channel that would be happy to service you, tobacco addiction and all.

 

[maineman]

Let's redefine 'high risk.' Bad genes, pay. Bad lifestyle, pay. The only ones with low rates, good genes and good behavior. Optimal weight, body fat, blood sugar, blood pressure, pulse, resting and working heart rates. All others, fuck off.

Which is cool. I want the restaurants/bars to all go non-smoking, non-meat, non-cholestrol. How long are restaurants expecting to be in business, cause God knows, bars in such should have closed a millenia ago.

answered in post #38.

 

[TheStripey1]

I do NOT smoke, I have never smoked. I do NOT like being around smokers while they smoke.

Denying care this way is SIMPLY WRONG. As you have noted no other "life style" is being forced to make changes like this. And I am waiting also for that explanation of why THIS is good policy but Christians can not refuse treatment to gays for their " dangerous" life style.

I don't have a problem with it... It's their choice. If you have a problem with it, why don't you write them and ask them WTF?

and then...

post their reply here...

 

[Shogun]

how far the rationalization is taken is clearly a political decision and will always be. And it will be a differing distances down the path at different times.

But the decision is only one of "degree" and not one of "kind". THAT decision was made long ago.

you would be setting yourself up as a hypcrite. smoking is no more unhealthy than the product of our fast food nation. Do we set weight limits now too? of course not.


Ive been debating this on my other board for over a year now.. The same people who cry about smoking wont bat an eye at 18 THOUSAND dead each year due to the public consumption of alcohol... Im no teetoler but there is something to be said for DONT TREAD ON ME. I dont care to pick through your life trying to find something that I can criticise so I thank pink lungers to do the same. Have your tobacco free bar while I have my smoking bar.

and while we are at it, remind me why a hospitol cannot refuse medical treatment.

 

[TheStripey1]

I do smoke.

and my city just passed a smoking ban in bars this year.


so far, 6 locations paid the price for the vote of a city council and had to close their doors since their MARKET left to find a business that will cater to their smoking needs.

This is one issue that makes me as leary of the left as I am of the right.


you can take your self righteous pink lunger opinion with you when you go find yourself a non smoking bar to hang out at instead of having to poke your opinion on a legal substance into everyones business.

well maybe they had other problems... or maybe they chose to move to a county that does allow tobacco addicts like you in the door... you can take your black lungs where ever you want as long as it is no where near me.

smoke yourself into an early grave... I frankly don't care.

 

[Annie]

how far the rationalization is taken is clearly a political decision and will always be. And it will be a differing distances down the path at different times.

But the decision is only one of "degree" and not one of "kind". THAT decision was made long ago.

I may be way off, but seems to me the answer is for those that do not wish to kowtow to government in all the machinations they may come up with, federal and state, is to go 'home based'. Then if the government tries to intervene, one is at least at the furtherest extreme before revolution.Thankfully in Il. the government is pushing such.

 

[Shogun]

the next contraband:

Ive noticed that those who hate smoking are usually all about legalizing marijuana. makes no sense at all.

I say legalize pot, let the smokers smoke where they choose to congregate..

and let the gays, smokers and lard asses have the privacy needed to get medical tretment...


shit... if this where about an abortion we'd be all about crying about privacy rights..

 

[TheStripey1]

there is an aspect of 'big brother' here, I will admit, but my guess is that smokers who wish to pay for operations out of pocket would get treated in a timely fashion.

If taxpayers are paying the freight, some risk management assumptions are appropriate to be made.

I doubt that anyone would think twice if a 90 year old patient were turned down by their insurance company for a heart transplant....a similar assumption.

but they aren't being told to quit altogether, just for the 30 days prior to their operation... and they're told that because they heal faster...

but the tobacco addicts aka the black lungers think that they should be allowed to smoke anywhere they feel like whether those around them like it or not. I disagree. I say, if they want to smoke themselves into an early grave, fine... Go for it... be my guest... just don't do it around me.

 

[maineman]

you would be setting yourself up as a hypcrite. smoking is no more unhealthy than the product of our fast food nation. Do we set weight limits now too? of course not.


Ive been debating this on my other board for over a year now.. The same people who cry about smoking wont bat an eye at 18 THOUSAND dead each year due to the public consumption of alcohol... Im no teetoler but there is something to be said for DONT TREAD ON ME. I dont care to pick through your life trying to find something that I can criticise so I thank pink lungers to do the same. Have your tobacco free bar while I have my smoking bar.

and while we are at it, remind me why a hospitol cannot refuse medical treatment.

I only point out that risk management decisions have been a part of any and every public or private health insurance program since their inception.

Pointing that out does NOT make me a hypocrite.

 

[Shogun]

well maybe they had other problems... or maybe they chose to move to a county that does allow tobacco addicts like you in the door... you can take your black lungs where ever you want as long as it is no where near me.

smoke yourself into an early grave... I frankly don't care.

apparently you do while supporting tobacco bans as if they were gods gift to politics.


I guess the gays and fat people can just move to a location that accepts them too, right?


pregnant rape victim is just shit outa luck and better catch a ride to san fran, eh?

 

[TheStripey1]

If non smokers think smoking is so dangerous and so threatening, then outlaw it. ( watch what happens if they try that) I am free to make my choices without government legislating "life style"

Good idea... more people die every year from tobacco addiction than from terrorist attacks.

 

[Annie]

Good idea... more people die every year from tobacco addiction than from terrorist attacks.

cool, outlaw both. Which is enforceable? Which Is not? Which is more important?

 

[Shogun]

I only point out that risk management decisions have been a part of any and every public or private health insurance program since their inception.

Pointing that out does NOT make me a hypocrite.

do you want to apply the same risk management process to AIDS having gays?

to pregnant rape victims?

to obese chocoholics?

to cracked out heroin addicts?

 

[TheStripey1]

yea yea yea... the pink lungers said the same thing here.. yet LO AND BEHOLD.... if you ban it, they will come... unfortunatly, what you refuse to admit is tht if their were a MARKET FOR NON SMOKING IN THE FIRST PLACE THEN A BAN WOULD NOT AT ALL BE NECESSARY BECAUSE THE BUSINESSES WOULD HAVE SWITCHED ON THEIR OWN.


I have to admit.. pink lunger zealots sound more and more like pat robertson every day.

i can hear it not...

"sorry, mr homosexual.. your lifestyle does not maximize your potential health and is probably exactly why you have COLON CANCER in the first place.. I suggest you stop taking it up the ass for a month before you come in here expecting treatment for colon cancer."


yea.. thats the world I sure want to live in.

maybe you should move to a locale where you can smoke as much as you want, anywhere you want, anytime you want... or maybe you should run for office in the town where you live so you can foist your addictive personality disorder on others...

good luck with that...

and what exactly does gay lifestyle have to do with tobacco addiction? Are you gay as well as a tobacco addict?

 

[Shogun]

Good idea... more people die every year from tobacco addiction than from terrorist attacks.

indeed... lets have another decade of prohibition...

would you care to apply the same standard to alcohol served in public so that 18 THOUSAND per year can live instead of becoming brain jelly on the road?

ps...


projected estimates are HARDLY worth stripping away liberty.

 

[maineman]

do you want to apply the same risk management process to AIDS having gays?

to pregnant rape victims?

to obese chocoholics?

to cracked out heroin addicts?

please go back and find where I endorsed any specific level of risk management for health care.

(and the 90 year old needing a heart transplant was a hypothetical example and not an endorsement of any denial of treatment for the old geezer)

 

[TheStripey1]

Let's redefine 'high risk.' Bad genes, pay. Bad lifestyle, pay. The only ones with low rates, good genes and good behavior. Optimal weight, body fat, blood sugar, blood pressure, pulse, resting and working heart rates. All others, fuck off.

Which is cool. I want the restaurants/bars to all go non-smoking, non-meat, non-cholestrol. How long are restaurants expecting to be in business, cause God knows, bars in such should have closed a millenia ago.

Like I said before and you failed to read... the bars and restaurants here have not had any problems finding patrons... but if it causes you such consternation, then maybe you should move to a locale that is more tolerant of your addictions.

 

[Annie]

indeed... lets have another decade of prohibition...

would you care to apply the same standard to alcohol served in public so that 18 THOUSAND per year can live instead of becoming brain jelly on the road?

ps...


projected estimates are HARDLY worth stripping away liberty.

Right. I'm all for outlawing smoking, drugs, alcohol, prayers, etc. Anything that is a crutch. Damn them all.

 

[TheStripey1]

you would be setting yourself up as a hypcrite. smoking is no more unhealthy than the product of our fast food nation. Do we set weight limits now too? of course not.


Ive been debating this on my other board for over a year now.. The same people who cry about smoking wont bat an eye at 18 THOUSAND dead each year due to the public consumption of alcohol... Im no teetoler but there is something to be said for DONT TREAD ON ME. I dont care to pick through your life trying to find something that I can criticise so I thank pink lungers to do the same. Have your tobacco free bar while I have my smoking bar.

and while we are at it, remind me why a hospitol cannot refuse medical treatment.

You said you run a bar... so it's obvious that you aren't a teetotaler... maybe you should sell your bar and move to a locale that isn't catering to those that don't smoke...

have fun, black lunger...