U.S. soldiers in S Korea

[mudwhistle]

The point is:

Peace in Korea is possible, but it can only come as a result of a very careful step by step process. A process where each side takes a step and each step in verified.

Trump just gave away the farm with no definitive requirements that NoKo take equivalent steps. There was no quid pro quo. At least nothing definitive and nothing verifiable.

Hell Trump can't even make a solid deal with a porn star. Kim Jong Un is eating him alive.

Lying about the agreement will only make you look like an asshole, bud.

You should take those words to heart.

That’s a circular argument.

You don't even know the conditions contained in the deal, yet you trash it because the left hates anything Trump does.

TRUMP CURES CANCER

DEMOCRATS PROTEST RACIST TRUMP TAKING AWAY THEIR CANCER

HAVING CANCER IS GOOD FOR US

IMPEACH TRUMP

 

[task0778]

The point is:

Peace in Korea is possible, but it can only come as a result of a very careful step by step process. A process where each side takes a step and each step in verified.

Trump just gave away the farm with no definitive requirements that NoKo take equivalent steps. There was no quid pro quo. At least nothing definitive and nothing verifiable.

Hell Trump can't even make a solid deal with a porn star. Kim Jong Un is eating him alive.

What did he give away? Nothing. War games canceled? They serve no real purpose other than making North Korea mad and can be rescheduled immediately, and pulling troops out of South Korea which he hasn't even actually said he'll do. They can be put back very quickly if they are removed. He's literally given away nothing.

We don't do the 'War Games' just for laugh and giggles. We do them to maintain combat readiness. This is especially important since we need to coordinate 2 separate armies.

Soldiers change their positions allthe time. They advance in rank, they rotate. If a war did break out we don't wnat a bunch of people asking 'What am I supposed to do?".

Sure, thes "War Games" scare the NoKos. That's why it's been a major demand by the NoKos for us to end them.

That may be a reasonable risk, but we should have gotten something substantial in return. We got nothing.

With people like Kim Jong Un, if you give him an inch he will take a mile. We've given that inch...what's next? Giving him another inch without anything in return?

So we went from giving the farm away to giving an inch. Bit different. Regardless, U.S. troops are highly trained, and have the most advanced military technology in the world. These war games are nonsense.

Might have to disagree there. First of all, it sends a message to the North, "we ain't a bunch of pussies down here". Second, our people get to work with their (SoKo's) people, don't think that doesn't mean something; we need to gauge their readiness and their resolve. It's different when bullets and bombs are flying, but attitude tells you something about them. Third, we learn a lot about the tactical/geographical situation that you need to know in advance if the shit hits the fan. Fourth, we learn more about their priorities and concerns on a tactical level and they learn about ours. You don't want to be arguing about what we're going to do in the middle of a war, everything should be considered and worked out ahead of time.

All that said, the prospect of reducing the chances for the war ramping back up is worth putting all that training on hold. As you say, we are highly trained and our side knows exactly what they need to do, if necessary. But war games and training are not nonsense, there are sound reasons for spending the time and money to do them.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The point is:

Peace in Korea is possible, but it can only come as a result of a very careful step by step process. A process where each side takes a step and each step in verified.

Trump just gave away the farm with no definitive requirements that NoKo take equivalent steps. There was no quid pro quo. At least nothing definitive and nothing verifiable.

Hell Trump can't even make a solid deal with a porn star. Kim Jong Un is eating him alive.

What did he give away? Nothing. War games canceled? They serve no real purpose other than making North Korea mad and can be rescheduled immediately, and pulling troops out of South Korea which he hasn't even actually said he'll do. They can be put back very quickly if they are removed. He's literally given away nothing.

We don't do the 'War Games' just for laugh and giggles. We do them to maintain combat readiness. This is especially important since we need to coordinate 2 separate armies.

Soldiers change their positions allthe time. They advance in rank, they rotate. If a war did break out we don't wnat a bunch of people asking 'What am I supposed to do?".

Sure, thes "War Games" scare the NoKos. That's why it's been a major demand by the NoKos for us to end them.

That may be a reasonable risk, but we should have gotten something substantial in return. We got nothing.

With people like Kim Jong Un, if you give him an inch he will take a mile. We've given that inch...what's next? Giving him another inch without anything in return?

So we went from giving the farm away to giving an inch. Bit different. Regardless, U.S. troops are highly trained, and have the most advanced military technology in the world. These war games are nonsense.

Might have to disagree there. First of all, it sends a message to the North, "we ain't a bunch of pussies down here". Second, our people get to work with their (SoKo's) people, don't think that doesn't mean something; we need to gauge their readiness and their resolve. It's different when bullets and bombs are flying, but attitude tells you something about them. Third, we learn a lot about the tactical/geographical situation that you need to know in advance if the shit hits the fan. Fourth, we learn more about their priorities and concerns on a tactical level and they learn about ours. You don't want to be arguing about what we're going to do in the middle of a war, everything should be considered and worked out ahead of time.

All that said, the prospect of reducing the chances for the war ramping back up is worth putting all that training on hold. As you say, we are highly trained and our side knows exactly what they need to do, if necessary. But war games and training are not nonsense, there are sound reasons for spending the time and money to do them.

I think we just have a disagreement over nuance, in that my statement was not nuanced. Everything you said is true, at least it sounds right to my non-military ears. What I'm saying is that the war games we've historically conducted with the south, which are highly publicized for propaganda purposes, are nonsense. Training and war games in general are obviously valid, but I think we can agree the way they've been doing it over the years hasn't really been designed to train but to anger the north. That's not necessary and no loss if we're looking toward diplomacy.

 

[EGR one]

So you believe that if NoKo were to launch a single nuke against SoKo or Japan, the U.S. would retaliate with a full blown nuke strike against NoKo knowing that NoKo would do the same against us? I don't think so.

Having a nuke strike against NoKo as the only option doesn't work.

You think the NKs can even attempt to hit the US with a nuke? Your name is gullible with a capital "G".

More than half the time their missiles don't even launch.

Half their missiles would cause absolute devastation.

Which they have no incentive to use, and we have the ability to shoot out of the sky. Apologies if I'm not willing to preclude the possibility of peace because of your circular arguing.

You seem to be awfully mixed up. The fact that we've been in a stalemate in Korea for the past 50 years and that any reduction in our capabilities means an advantage to NoKo is beyond you.

You've proposed the removal of U.S. forces from Korea, leaving the only option for the U.S. participation in defending SoKo to be using nukes.

Pretty much any scenario that includes us using nukes would produce extremely unacceptable results.

Basically, if we remove our troops, we've abondoned SoKo.

First, no one is advocating using nukes unless the North Koreans use them against us or any of our allies. Second, no one in the administration is considering reducing troop commitments in Korea unless conditions change and the reductions would be warranted.

Trump has agreed to suspend joint US and South Korean military war games . None are currently scheduled, No big deal.

The US troops in Korea are not game changers. They are there to ensure that the US is committed to South Koreas defense in case of a North Korean invasion.

 

[EGR one]

The point is:

Peace in Korea is possible, but it can only come as a result of a very careful step by step process. A process where each side takes a step and each step in verified.

Trump just gave away the farm with no definitive requirements that NoKo take equivalent steps. There was no quid pro quo. At least nothing definitive and nothing verifiable.

Hell Trump can't even make a solid deal with a porn star. Kim Jong Un is eating him alive.

What did he give away? Nothing. War games canceled? They serve no real purpose other than making North Korea mad and can be rescheduled immediately, and pulling troops out of South Korea which he hasn't even actually said he'll do. They can be put back very quickly if they are removed. He's literally given away nothing.

We don't do the 'War Games' just for laugh and giggles. We do them to maintain combat readiness. This is especially important since we need to coordinate 2 separate armies.

Soldiers change their positions allthe time. They advance in rank, they rotate. If a war did break out we don't wnat a bunch of people asking 'What am I supposed to do?".

Sure, thes "War Games" scare the NoKos. That's why it's been a major demand by the NoKos for us to end them.

That may be a reasonable risk, but we should have gotten something substantial in return. We got nothing.

With people like Kim Jong Un, if you give him an inch he will take a mile. We've given that inch...what's next? Giving him another inch without anything in return?

So we went from giving the farm away to giving an inch. Bit different. Regardless, U.S. troops are highly trained, and have the most advanced military technology in the world. These war games are nonsense.

Joint war games improve communications, coordination, and tactical control between the individual forces.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The point is:

Peace in Korea is possible, but it can only come as a result of a very careful step by step process. A process where each side takes a step and each step in verified.

Trump just gave away the farm with no definitive requirements that NoKo take equivalent steps. There was no quid pro quo. At least nothing definitive and nothing verifiable.

Hell Trump can't even make a solid deal with a porn star. Kim Jong Un is eating him alive.

What did he give away? Nothing. War games canceled? They serve no real purpose other than making North Korea mad and can be rescheduled immediately, and pulling troops out of South Korea which he hasn't even actually said he'll do. They can be put back very quickly if they are removed. He's literally given away nothing.

We don't do the 'War Games' just for laugh and giggles. We do them to maintain combat readiness. This is especially important since we need to coordinate 2 separate armies.

Soldiers change their positions allthe time. They advance in rank, they rotate. If a war did break out we don't wnat a bunch of people asking 'What am I supposed to do?".

Sure, thes "War Games" scare the NoKos. That's why it's been a major demand by the NoKos for us to end them.

That may be a reasonable risk, but we should have gotten something substantial in return. We got nothing.

With people like Kim Jong Un, if you give him an inch he will take a mile. We've given that inch...what's next? Giving him another inch without anything in return?

So we went from giving the farm away to giving an inch. Bit different. Regardless, U.S. troops are highly trained, and have the most advanced military technology in the world. These war games are nonsense.

Joint war games improve communications, coordination, and tactical control between the individual forces.

Please refer to my last post on the subject of war games, as the one you're quoting lacks the necessary nuance.

 

[task0778]

The point is:

Peace in Korea is possible, but it can only come as a result of a very careful step by step process. A process where each side takes a step and each step in verified.

Trump just gave away the farm with no definitive requirements that NoKo take equivalent steps. There was no quid pro quo. At least nothing definitive and nothing verifiable.

Hell Trump can't even make a solid deal with a porn star. Kim Jong Un is eating him alive.

What did he give away? Nothing. War games canceled? They serve no real purpose other than making North Korea mad and can be rescheduled immediately, and pulling troops out of South Korea which he hasn't even actually said he'll do. They can be put back very quickly if they are removed. He's literally given away nothing.

We don't do the 'War Games' just for laugh and giggles. We do them to maintain combat readiness. This is especially important since we need to coordinate 2 separate armies.

Soldiers change their positions allthe time. They advance in rank, they rotate. If a war did break out we don't wnat a bunch of people asking 'What am I supposed to do?".

Sure, thes "War Games" scare the NoKos. That's why it's been a major demand by the NoKos for us to end them.

That may be a reasonable risk, but we should have gotten something substantial in return. We got nothing.

With people like Kim Jong Un, if you give him an inch he will take a mile. We've given that inch...what's next? Giving him another inch without anything in return?

So we went from giving the farm away to giving an inch. Bit different. Regardless, U.S. troops are highly trained, and have the most advanced military technology in the world. These war games are nonsense.

Might have to disagree there. First of all, it sends a message to the North, "we ain't a bunch of pussies down here". Second, our people get to work with their (SoKo's) people, don't think that doesn't mean something; we need to gauge their readiness and their resolve. It's different when bullets and bombs are flying, but attitude tells you something about them. Third, we learn a lot about the tactical/geographical situation that you need to know in advance if the shit hits the fan. Fourth, we learn more about their priorities and concerns on a tactical level and they learn about ours. You don't want to be arguing about what we're going to do in the middle of a war, everything should be considered and worked out ahead of time.

All that said, the prospect of reducing the chances for the war ramping back up is worth putting all that training on hold. As you say, we are highly trained and our side knows exactly what they need to do, if necessary. But war games and training are not nonsense, there are sound reasons for spending the time and money to do them.

I think we just have a disagreement over nuance, in that my statement was not nuanced. Everything you said is true, at least it sounds right to my non-military ears. What I'm saying is that the war games we've historically conducted with the south, which are highly publicized for propaganda purposes, are nonsense. Training and war games in general are obviously valid, but I think we can agree the way they've been doing it over the years hasn't really been designed to train but to anger the north. That's not necessary and no loss if we're looking toward diplomacy.

I might take issue with your characterization of those war games and exercises as designed to anger the North. I don't think so, it's part of a deterrent strategy to remind the North that the South has it's own military capabilities. BUT - as a diplomatic gesture, putting those activities on hold is in my eyes a very good idea that costs us nothing. Don't know if our gov't talked with SoKo's gov't about it, they certainly should have. If nothing more than a heads up, we might do this and this. I don't think they'll mind too much if it works.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Fake News Liberals are bummed out and they want everyone else to be bummed out as well..

They'll turn any great news into a negative ... screw them...

I think the Iran Deal and the ACA, the Paris Accord and the UN are good deals, what Trump did yesterday, not impressed.

Giving a criminal regime money to build nukes-for-terrorists, driving the cost of all consumer goods up globally and creating more welfare and welfare dependency are good things?

 

[Richard-H]

You think the NKs can even attempt to hit the US with a nuke? Your name is gullible with a capital "G".

More than half the time their missiles don't even launch.

Half their missiles would cause absolute devastation.

Which they have no incentive to use, and we have the ability to shoot out of the sky. Apologies if I'm not willing to preclude the possibility of peace because of your circular arguing.

You seem to be awfully mixed up. The fact that we've been in a stalemate in Korea for the past 50 years and that any reduction in our capabilities means an advantage to NoKo is beyond you.

You've proposed the removal of U.S. forces from Korea, leaving the only option for the U.S. participation in defending SoKo to be using nukes.

Pretty much any scenario that includes us using nukes would produce extremely unacceptable results.

Basically, if we remove our troops, we've abondoned SoKo.

First, no one is advocating using nukes unless the North Koreans use them against us or any of our allies. Second, no one in the administration is considering reducing troop commitments in Korea unless conditions change and the reductions would be warranted.

Trump has agreed to suspend joint US and South Korean military war games . None are currently scheduled, No big deal.

The US troops in Korea are not game changers. They are there to ensure that the US is committed to South Koreas defense in case of a North Korean invasion.

That's kind of weird!

You say "They are there to ensure that the US is committed to South Koreas defense in case of a North Korean invasion."

That's not a game changer? Seriously?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

So you believe that if NoKo were to launch a single nuke against SoKo or Japan, the U.S. would retaliate with a full blown nuke strike against NoKo knowing that NoKo would do the same against us? I don't think so.

Having a nuke strike against NoKo as the only option doesn't work.

Why is that the only option? I said in the post you quoted, "and there's no question that American troops would be back on the peninsula in short order were an invasion attempted." Furthermore, the idea that North Korea could hit the U.S. with a nuke is unrealistic. Seoul? Probably. Japan? Probably not, but maybe. The U.S.? Very unlikely. And yes, I believe that the U.S. would hit them with a nuclear strike that would take out their power structures in very short order wherein no retaliatory strike could even be attempted.

First, a U.S. force returning to Korea would take an awful lot of time.

Second, if we did hit them with nukes, they'd level Seoul in minutes.

Third, if we hit them with nukes, the fallout would blow over SoKo & China causing massive casualties in both countries and possible provoking a war with China.

So we went from a hypothetical U.S. retaliatory nuclear strike against North Korea for them insanely striking South Korea first, to us nuking them for no reason and then them nuking Seoul in retaliation. As neither of these hypothetical scenarios are remotely likely I don't see the use in continuing to debate them as you change the terms to continue to argue.

Where the hell did you get the idea that we were going to nuke them for no reason? That is bull fucking shit.

In the hypothetical scenario Richard lays out in the post I quoted he mentions that they'd level Seoul in minutes if we nuked them.

Burnt Offerings

Maybe Ant Man could do it, but what you're picturing is Ash Man.

 

[Richard-H]

It seems that no one disputes that NoKos statement that they will denuclearize should not be taken seriously. The U.S & SoKo goit no real consessions.

The question is then, whether the U.S. cancelling military exercises is significant and whether it's a precursor to the U.S. miliatry leaving SoKo.

So, let's assume that the U.S. is not going to leave SoKo and that cancelling the exercises is insignificant.

What you have then, at best, is a summit that was a great big nothing burger.

It was nothing but a big photo op for Trump and Kim. Their loyalists got to wet their panties a bit, but that's about it.

 

[bodecea]

It will never happen.

And Trump will never be elected President. ....

Didn't you hear?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The point is:

Peace in Korea is possible, but it can only come as a result of a very careful step by step process. A process where each side takes a step and each step in verified.

Trump just gave away the farm with no definitive requirements that NoKo take equivalent steps. There was no quid pro quo. At least nothing definitive and nothing verifiable.

Hell Trump can't even make a solid deal with a porn star. Kim Jong Un is eating him alive.

Lying about the agreement will only make you look like an asshole, bud.

You should take those words to heart.

, yet you trash it because the left hates anything Trump does.

TRUMP CURES CANCER

DEMOCRATS PROTEST RACIST TRUMP TAKING AWAY THEIR CANCER

HAVING CANCER IS GOOD FOR US

IMPEACH TRUMP

Twist and Shout

OWNED BY THE TOBACCO COMPANIES, TRUMP CREATES A REASON FOR MILLIONS TO GO BACK TO SMOKING

 

[mudwhistle]

The point is:

Peace in Korea is possible, but it can only come as a result of a very careful step by step process. A process where each side takes a step and each step in verified.

Trump just gave away the farm with no definitive requirements that NoKo take equivalent steps. There was no quid pro quo. At least nothing definitive and nothing verifiable.

Hell Trump can't even make a solid deal with a porn star. Kim Jong Un is eating him alive.

What did he give away? Nothing. War games canceled? They serve no real purpose other than making North Korea mad and can be rescheduled immediately, and pulling troops out of South Korea which he hasn't even actually said he'll do. They can be put back very quickly if they are removed. He's literally given away nothing.

We don't do the 'War Games' just for laugh and giggles. We do them to maintain combat readiness. This is especially important since we need to coordinate 2 separate armies.

Soldiers change their positions allthe time. They advance in rank, they rotate. If a war did break out we don't wnat a bunch of people asking 'What am I supposed to do?".

Sure, thes "War Games" scare the NoKos. That's why it's been a major demand by the NoKos for us to end them.

That may be a reasonable risk, but we should have gotten something substantial in return. We got nothing.

With people like Kim Jong Un, if you give him an inch he will take a mile. We've given that inch...what's next? Giving him another inch without anything in return?

So we went from giving the farm away to giving an inch. Bit different. Regardless, U.S. troops are highly trained, and have the most advanced military technology in the world. These war games are nonsense.

Joint war games improve communications, coordination, and tactical control between the individual forces.

Fighting over a joint.

 

[Tom Horn]

I'd enjoy watching the look on old hag Merkel's face if Trump yanked our GIs out of Germany....then let's see what % of GP she'd have to spend on defense. We rebuilt europe with the Marshall Plan which was supposed to end, but it never did. What was once gifted is now expected and not even appreciated....Only Poland has held up their end of the deal. So Trump says that's over and those socialist turds act all offended....fuck them....let them face Putin without us for a day and see what the attitude is.

 

[EverCurious]

It seems a case of "shit or get off the pot" here. I mean either we're going to attack N. Korea, or we accept the olive branch they're holding out - THEY wanted peace talks with S. Korea and the US...

 

[frigidweirdo]

Our amazing Pres. Trump is already talking about reducing the size of the U.S. military presence in South Korea, which is currently around 30,000 soldiers.

This will save the American taxpayer a boatload of money. ....

Yes it will.

The Chinese will be happy.

The North Koreans will be happy.

They're the enemy.

South Koreans less so. They're the allies.

Yes, Trump diplomacy, annoy the crap out of your allies and get played by your enemies. MAIA, Make America Irrelevant Again.

So far South Korea is on board with everything Trump has done. These talks wouldn't have even happened if it hadn't been for Moon Jae-in laying the diplomatic groundwork from the beginning. It's far more his victory than Trump's, though Trump obviously deserves plenty of credit for being willing to go along with it.

But then something has to give. North Korea doesn't need to give in to anything.

 

[Unkotare]

Our amazing Pres. Trump is already talking about reducing the size of the U.S. military presence in South Korea, which is currently around 30,000 soldiers.

This will save the American taxpayer a boatload of money. ....

We should have pulled our troops from there and from Japan decades ago

Save that money and bring it back home

Let China have them both -- they are our ally now

That’s dumb

 

[Unkotare]

I'd enjoy watching the look on old hag Merkel's face if Trump yanked our GIs out of Germany....then let's see what % of GP she'd have to spend on defense. We rebuilt europe with the Marshall Plan which was supposed to end, but it never did. What was once gifted is now expected and not even appreciated....Only Poland has held up their end of the deal. So Trump says that's over and those socialist turds act all offended....fuck them....let them face Putin without us for a day and see what the attitude is.

The Marshall Plan was for OUR sake, Mr. Magoo.

 

[Maxdeath]

I see that the Trumpbots only solution for military aggression by NoKo against SoKo in the future is a nuclear missile strike. With U.S. troops gone, a conventional defense of SoKo will not be possible.

To say that having a nuclear strike as our only option is a really, really bad idea is such an understatement, that I won't even go into explaining it.

But my real questions to Trumpbots is:

Do you ever think anything through? Are you truly that stupid?

Are you just blind partisan hacks?

Or do you just want to see the end of America as a world power?

To those paid Russian trolls, I say congradulations! looks like you've won another one.

To those people who are still mad becuase their great grand daddy lose the civil war - get over it.

To anyone else - those people that believe that they are patriotic Americans and who think this is a good deal - GROW A FREAKIN' BRAIN!

Ever heard of tomahawk missles? Ever hear of a B-2? Do you have any idea response time from Guam or Germany of troops? There is no need for a nuclear response to a non nuclear threat.
It took almost three years of negotiation between Reagan and Gorbachev to get INF signed. Who in their right mind would think that anyone would come up with a full treaty in a day or less? It will most likely take years.
It will take time for North Korea to list every missle, warhead, fueling station, etc. Then both parties to agree how to verify these are in those places and there are no others that are not on the list. Then agreeing on how to destroy and verify. Then what is needed to verify continued compliance. None of this takes into account conventional weapons. Then there is the part of the process most important to Kim. Economic and national securtity.
Why does it seem that some would rather have a nuclear war then give Trump credit for not having one?