U.S. House passes tough anti-gang law

[5stringJeff]

Great news... more criminals off the streets!

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U.S. House passes tough anti-gang law

Wed May 11, 6:22 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday passed tough legislation that imposes a 10-year minimum sentences on people convicted of gang violence, expands the reach of the death penalty and adds years of extra jail time for gang members who are illegal immigrants.

The Gang Deterrence and Community Protection Act of 2005, popularly known as the "Gangbusters Bill," passed easily by 279 to 144 in the Republican-led House. Seventy one Democrats supported the Republican majority while 20 Republicans voted against the bill.

Sponsors of the bill said it was necessary because of an alarming increase in gang violence. The Justice Department estimates there are more than 25,000 gangs active in the United States with more than 750,000 members.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050511/pl_nm/crime_gangs_dc

 

[dmp]

I'm scared that you and I beating up somebody who comes down from the 3rd floor could get prosecuted.

 

[insein]

I'm scared that you and I beating up somebody who comes down from the 3rd floor could get prosecuted.

thats what im fearful of. Another law that helps to fill up the jails longer. Whats considered gang violence? Property damage? Graffity? or is this just for the murder cases? If people are going to jail for 10 years because they spray painted crips on a wall, then the jails are going to increase exponentially again.

 

[5stringJeff]

If you're not in a gang, it's not gang violence.

 

[insein]

If you're not in a gang, it's not gang violence.

Missing the point jeff. Who defines what a gang is? And then who defines what gang violence is? To some stuck up judge, gang violence could be an after school prank that a "group" of similar clothed individuals perpetrated together.

Do they then get 10 years in prison if the judge sees it that way?

 

[5stringJeff]

Missing the point jeff. Who defines what a gang is? And then who defines what gang violence is? To some stuck up judge, gang violence could be an after school prank that a "group" of similar clothed individuals perpetrated together.

Do they then get 10 years in prison if the judge sees it that way?

Here's the definition, straight out of the bill, plus a link to the entire bill.

CRIMINAL STREET GANG - The term `criminal street gang' means a formal or informal group or association of 3 or more individuals, who commit 2 or more gang crimes (one of which is a crime of violence other than an offense punishable under subparagraph (A), (B), or (C) of section 401(b)(1) of the Controlled Substances Act ), in 2 or more separate criminal episodes, in relation to the group or association, if any of the activities of the criminal street gang affects interstate or foreign commerce.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c109:3:./temp/~c1097C6nmU::

 

[insein]

Here's the definition, straight out of the bill, plus a link to the entire bill.

CRIMINAL STREET GANG - The term `criminal street gang' means a formal or informal group or association of 3 or more individuals, who commit 2 or more gang crimes (one of which is a crime of violence other than an offense punishable under subparagraph (A), (B), or (C) of section 401(b)(1) of the Controlled Substances Act ), in 2 or more separate criminal episodes, in relation to the group or association, if any of the activities of the criminal street gang affects interstate or foreign commerce.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c109:3:./temp/~c1097C6nmU::

"infromal association of 3 or more people who commit 2 or more gang crimes"

What the hell does that mean?

 

[insein]

`(2) GANG CRIME- The term `gang crime' means conduct constituting any Federal or State crime, punishable by imprisonment for more than one year, in any of the following categories:

`(A) A crime of violence (other than a crime of violence against the property of another).

Hopefully that covers it. Im still leary of the way this law is worded.

 

[Yurt]

To be honest or frank, whatever the saying may be, I grew up in inner city san diego. We had gang patrol cops along with regular cops at my school. Trust me, everyone knew who was a gang member.

Sometimes it went awry. Like the one day I was walking with my two latina friends (hot as hell) and they would not let them pass beyond the gym area. I said "wft?" The cop who knew me said, hey, there is a gang war threat today between the asians and the mexicans, so we are separating the mexicans from the asians. Now, my two latina friends may not have been "mexican" for as you know, there is a difference between spanish mexicans and aztec mexicans. However, they were not allowed to pass, and when I said I would stay behind (I thought I was macho, good thing the girls bought it too, LOL) the cop said, no way. So I had to move on while they stayed behind.

Racist? Immoral? I was pissed. But guess what, I find out from my black friend later that day that there really was a gang war. Thanks to the cops or "security guards" it was all averted. The next day, more cops at school, the day after, less, then less, then there was no gang war.

It is easy to be reasonable to guess who is in "gang." Tats for one. Colors for two. Endless other symbols. This is what differentiates someone from the proverbial "3rd" floor and his "buddy" from taking someone down in self defense. Now if you and your buddy have some tats that are known to be a gang's tats, then maybe I would think twice.

 

[insein]

To be honest or frank, whatever the saying may be, I grew up in inner city san diego. We had gang patrol cops along with regular cops at my school. Trust me, everyone knew who was a gang member.

Sometimes it went awry. Like the one day I was walking with my two latina friends (hot as hell) and they would not let them pass beyond the gym area. I said "wft?" The cop who knew me said, hey, there is a gang war threat today between the asians and the mexicans, so we are separating the mexicans from the asians. Now, my two latina friends may not have been "mexican" for as you know, there is a difference between spanish mexicans and aztec mexicans. However, they were not allowed to pass, and when I said I would stay behind (I thought I was macho, good thing the girls bought it too, LOL) the cop said, no way. So I had to move on while they stayed behind.

Racist? Immoral? I was pissed. But guess what, I find out from my black friend later that day that there really was a gang war. Thanks to the cops or "security guards" it was all averted. The next day, more cops at school, the day after, less, then less, then there was no gang war.

It is easy to be reasonable to guess who is in "gang." Tats for one. Colors for two. Endless other symbols. This is what differentiates someone from the proverbial "3rd" floor and his "buddy" from taking someone down in self defense. Now if you and your buddy have some tats that are known to be a gang's tats, then maybe I would think twice.

As long as police officials provide more then just "3 or more gang members" doing a gang related crime is the criteria i have no problem with this law. I just hope bored suburban cops dont start arresting kids that dress alike and say there is a suspected gang war going down.

 

[NATO AIR]

This bill is bad bad news for kids of color living in mostly white communities.

Indeed, its bad for any kid regardless of skin color who dresses "hip-hop" style.

Plus, any law with "minimum" sentencing is bad for the nation and our taxpayers, as it often ties the hands of a judge (and prosecutor at times) who try to evaluate fairly the circumstances of a case.

"minimum" sentencing is why our prisons are packed with non-violent drug offenders who cost bilions of dollars every year to imprison, where they become hardened criminals after being mixed in with the violent types for years at a time.

Some kids who get in an old-fashioned fisticuffs could be locked up and sent to jail for 10 years thanks to this law, is this really what we want?

 

[insein]

This bill is bad bad news for kids of color living in mostly white communities.

Indeed, its bad for any kid regardless of skin color who dresses "hip-hop" style.

Plus, any law with "minimum" sentencing is bad for the nation and our taxpayers, as it often ties the hands of a judge (and prosecutor at times) who try to evaluate fairly the circumstances of a case.

"minimum" sentencing is why our prisons are packed with non-violent drug offenders who cost bilions of dollars every year to imprison, where they become hardened criminals after being mixed in with the violent types for years at a time.

Some kids who get in an old-fashioned fisticuffs could be locked up and sent to jail for 10 years thanks to this law, is this really what we want?

Thats where my thought process was going. Not that kids fight anymore. They talk tough and then bottle it up for their therapist to sort out or they come into school shooting at anything that moves.

 

[5stringJeff]

I understand the concern, but I don't think it's going to be as bad as you imagine. For one, most cops know who the gang members are in their neighborhood/precinct. Also, the law is written to clearly target gang members, not just a random group of people (like assault).

 

[insein]

I understand the concern, but I don't think it's going to be as bad as you imagine. For one, most cops know who the gang members are in their neighborhood/precinct. Also, the law is written to clearly target gang members, not just a random group of people (like assault).

Yes but who defines "gang members?" If a cop thinks that several individuals that are similarly dressed attacking another group of individuals of similar dress, are they gang members or just a random barfight? IF the cop says they're gang members, then that makes it so.

What i dont get is, why the extra law on gang violence? Cant they try and convict these people of murder and assault with the regular laws in place? The more i think about this, the worse i feel about regular kids getting 10 years in jail for minor offenses.

 

[Yurt]

As long as police officials provide more then just "3 or more gang members" doing a gang related crime is the criteria i have no problem with this law. I just hope bored suburban cops dont start arresting kids that dress alike and say there is a suspected gang war going down.

Good point, fair enough.