Two Questions for Atheists

[Boss]

I think he is just making a distinction between what people say and the inner doubts that every has about anything from time to time...especially after praying for decades with no answer most people will start to wonder and they may never admit that to you out of fear of being perceived as weak or faithless or even worse, an unbeliever......

There is a distinct difference the moron fails to recognize. Believing God exists is not the same thing as questioning one's faith in God. Two entirely different things. I can believe God exists while questioning whether my "version" of God is correct.

My original point was that most religious believers in God have, at some time, questioned their faith. Not that they doubted God existed... an entirely different argument. Prager pointed out that most Atheists are reluctant to question their beliefs. He cites a symposium he attended where he was debating an Atheist before a predominately Atheist audience and he asked them for a show of hands to his second question, "Do you ever have doubts about your beliefs?" Not a single hand went up.

I don't know if this means much but I found in an interesting contrast with "believers" who constantly question their faith. I'm not entirely sure I agree with Prager on this. In a recent study on Atheism in Denmark, the most Atheistic country on the planet, some interesting facts emerged. While nearly 66% profess to be "Atheist," when the follow-up question was asked, "Do you believe there is absolutely no possibility of any God whatsoever?" Only 32% of the 66% answered affirmatively. So, only a third of self-professed Atheists were willing to go so far as to say there is absolutely no possibility of any God whatsoever. And that seems to dovetail nicely with many early responses to this thread, where several of USMB's most Atheistic posters refused to acknowledge their own Atheism, if favor of a more "intellectual" Agnostic position. Some even went so far as to associate Agnosticism with Atheism as if they are one in the same.

As I've said before, some "Atheists" are bigger believers in God than some "Christians."

 

[LittleNipper]

My question to atheists is, "If they don't believe in God, why do they bother with forums and websites such as this." It is a waste of their time and energy that they could spend doing something they believe is constructive.

 

[hobelim]

I think he is just making a distinction between what people say and the inner doubts that every has about anything from time to time...especially after praying for decades with no answer most people will start to wonder and they may never admit that to you out of fear of being perceived as weak or faithless or even worse, an unbeliever......

There is a distinct difference the moron fails to recognize. Believing God exists is not the same thing as questioning one's faith in God. Two entirely different things. I can believe God exists while questioning whether my "version" of God is correct.

My original point was that most religious believers in God have, at some time, questioned their faith. Not that they doubted God existed... an entirely different argument. Prager pointed out that most Atheists are reluctant to question their beliefs. He cites a symposium he attended where he was debating an Atheist before a predominately Atheist audience and he asked them for a show of hands to his second question, "Do you ever have doubts about your beliefs?" Not a single hand went up.

I don't know if this means much but I found in an interesting contrast with "believers" who constantly question their faith. I'm not entirely sure I agree with Prager on this. In a recent study on Atheism in Denmark, the most Atheistic country on the planet, some interesting facts emerged. While nearly 66% profess to be "Atheist," when the follow-up question was asked, "Do you believe there is absolutely no possibility of any God whatsoever?" Only 32% of the 66% answered affirmatively. So, only a third of self-professed Atheists were willing to go so far as to say there is absolutely no possibility of any God whatsoever. And that seems to dovetail nicely with many early responses to this thread, where several of USMB's most Atheistic posters refused to acknowledge their own Atheism, if favor of a more "intellectual" Agnostic position. Some even went so far as to associate Agnosticism with Atheism as if they are one in the same.

As I've said before, some "Atheists" are bigger believers in God than some "Christians."

What gets me about atheists is that one minute they say that God is an evil bastard for allowing evil people to get away with doing evil things without intervening and the next minute say that God is an amoral heartless bastard for intervening and destroying the very same people who they complain about getting away with perpetuating evil.

Seems like their entire argument is based solely on derision.

 

[Tuatara]

I think he is just making a distinction between what people say and the inner doubts that every has about anything from time to time...especially after praying for decades with no answer most people will start to wonder and they may never admit that to you out of fear of being perceived as weak or faithless or even worse, an unbeliever......

There is a distinct difference the moron fails to recognize. Believing God exists is not the same thing as questioning one's faith in God. Two entirely different things. I can believe God exists while questioning whether my "version" of God is correct.

My original point was that most religious believers in God have, at some time, questioned their faith. Not that they doubted God existed... an entirely different argument. Prager pointed out that most Atheists are reluctant to question their beliefs. He cites a symposium he attended where he was debating an Atheist before a predominately Atheist audience and he asked them for a show of hands to his second question, "Do you ever have doubts about your beliefs?" Not a single hand went up.

I don't know if this means much but I found in an interesting contrast with "believers" who constantly question their faith. I'm not entirely sure I agree with Prager on this. In a recent study on Atheism in Denmark, the most Atheistic country on the planet, some interesting facts emerged. While nearly 66% profess to be "Atheist," when the follow-up question was asked, "Do you believe there is absolutely no possibility of any God whatsoever?" Only 32% of the 66% answered affirmatively. So, only a third of self-professed Atheists were willing to go so far as to say there is absolutely no possibility of any God whatsoever. And that seems to dovetail nicely with many early responses to this thread, where several of USMB's most Atheistic posters refused to acknowledge their own Atheism, if favor of a more "intellectual" Agnostic position. Some even went so far as to associate Agnosticism with Atheism as if they are one in the same.

As I've said before, some "Atheists" are bigger believers in God than some "Christians."

What gets me about atheists is that one minute they say that God is an evil bastard for allowing evil people to get away with doing evil things without intervening and the next minute say that God is an amoral heartless bastard for intervening and destroying the very same people who they complain about getting away with perpetuating evil.

Seems like their entire argument is based solely on derision.

Said no one ever. When did God intervene. Show me where an atheist stated that?

 

[badger2]

Try this, OP: study Julia Kristeva's texts on the difference between psychology and psychoanalysis. Kristeva is an agnostic.

'I Truth, lie.'
(Jacques Lacan)

 

[BreezeWood]

.

My question to atheists is, "If they don't believe in God, why do they bother with forums and websites such as this." It is a waste of their time and energy that they could spend doing something they believe is constructive.

why do they bother with forums and websites such as this.

to destroy the evil of the desert religions and bring a semblance of justice for everyone else - including the religious that visit the forum for the same reason.

 

[badger2]

#761: No, today's atheism does question itself, by starting with the desire for immortality.

'Atheism has traditionally limited itself to denying the existence of God and immortality, without questioning the desire for God or immortality. Thus, in traditional atheism mortal being is still conceived as a lack of being that we desire to transcend. In contrast, by developing the logic of radical atheism, I argue that the so-called desire for immortality dissimulates a desire for survival that precedes it and contradicts it from within.'
(Haegglund M, Radical Atheism: Derrida and the Time of Life, p. 1)

 

[badger2]

Derrida's deconstruction is one thing that keeps us coming back to the forum.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If you're NOT an Atheist (seems many of you aren't) then the question is not for you.

I don't think there are many real atheists. Even the great Christopher Hitchens (RIP Hitch), the author of the book "God is Not Great", said that he would believe if he had proof.

He did think of himself as an "anti-theist", however, in that he was very much against organized religion, regardless of whether God exists or not.
.

If you don't think Hitchens was an atheist then you have no idea what the word means.

There are plenty of resources. Go to YouTube and he'll explain the difference to you himself.
.

Hitchens was an atheist, as are all agnostics.

I'm agnostic, and I'm not an atheist.

I simply am willing to admit that I don't know.

And I know others like me.
.

"I'm agnostic, and I'm not an atheist."

Of course you are. "Atheist" is one who lacks belief in god. All agnostics lack belief in god. Else, they would be theists. Most people have been using the word "atheist" incorrectly. An atheist who believes/"knows" there is no god is a "gnostic atheist", which is a special case of atheism, just as a square is a special case of a rectangle.

but, we don't call rectangles, "not-square rectangles", do we? So, "agnostic atheist " is a cumbersome, unnecessary term. You are either theist, or atheist. Agnostics are all atheists.

 

[Syriusly]

Back a few weeks ago, I posed my first question to Atheists and I was surprised how suddenly we had so many posters proclaim themselves "Agnostic!" It was an amazing thing to see. We constantly get bombarded with the so-called "naysayers" on this forum regularly but for some odd reason, my question turned them away from Atheism to Agnosticism instantly. I don't think I ever got an honest answer to my question. So I decided it would be a good idea for a thread OP.

First Question for Atheists:

Do you hope that you are wrong or do you hope that you are right?.

Neither. If I hoped I was wrong, then I wouldn't be an atheist- I would just be unsure.

If I am right- I will never know unless Shiva suddenly appears in the sky someday to prove to me he exists.

I don't believe in any gods because I have never seen any evidence to suggest that there are any. Simple as that.

Other than when believers make demands of me about their faith, I am fine with whatever you or they believe.

 

[Syriusly]

B
Do you ever have doubts about your Atheism?
.

No.

Except.....there is something marvelously mystical about dawn in the desert that has inspired me a few times to feel at one with the universe.

Just made it easier to understand the religions that originated with desert people.

 

[Boss]

"I'm agnostic, and I'm not an atheist."

Of course you are. "Atheist" is one who lacks belief in god. All agnostics lack belief in god. Else, they would be theists. Most people have been using the word "atheist" incorrectly. An atheist who believes/"knows" there is no god is a "gnostic atheist", which is a special case of atheism, just as a square is a special case of a rectangle.

but, we don't call rectangles, "not-square rectangles", do we? So, "agnostic atheist " is a cumbersome, unnecessary term. You are either theist, or atheist. Agnostics are all atheists.

Please stop being an annoying little shit for brains.

There are two different words. They mean two different things. Else there would only be ONE word. An Atheist is someone who does not believe in God. An Agnostic is someone who doesn't know if God exists. A square is not a special case of a rectangle and a rectangle is not a square. A square is a square and a rectangle is a rectangle. Two different words, two different definitions.

If you need further evidence of how retarded your understanding is, read this thread from the start and notice how many people post that they are NOT atheists and ARE agnostic. So maybe YOU are the only one who has the FunBaggz Special Needs Dictionary where two different words mean exactly the same thing? In any event, you've now posted this multiple times and we get it... so shut the fuck up and stop spamming my thread with your idiocy.

Thanks

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"I'm agnostic, and I'm not an atheist."

Of course you are. "Atheist" is one who lacks belief in god. All agnostics lack belief in god. Else, they would be theists. Most people have been using the word "atheist" incorrectly. An atheist who believes/"knows" there is no god is a "gnostic atheist", which is a special case of atheism, just as a square is a special case of a rectangle.

but, we don't call rectangles, "not-square rectangles", do we? So, "agnostic atheist " is a cumbersome, unnecessary term. You are either theist, or atheist. Agnostics are all atheists.

Please stop being an annoying little shit for brains.

There are two different words. They mean two different things. Else there would only be ONE word. An Atheist is someone who does not believe in God. An Agnostic is someone who doesn't know if God exists. A square is not a special case of a rectangle and a rectangle is not a square. A square is a square and a rectangle is a rectangle. Two different words, two different definitions.

If you need further evidence of how retarded your understanding is, read this thread from the start and notice how many people post that they are NOT atheists and ARE agnostic. So maybe YOU are the only one who has the FunBaggz Special Needs Dictionary where two different words mean exactly the same thing? In any event, you've now posted this multiple times and we get it... so shut the fuck up and stop spamming my thread with your idiocy.

Thanks

"An Atheist is someone who does not believe in God. An Agnostic is someone who doesn't know if God exists."

Correct on both counts. As you can clearly see, all agnostics are atheists, as, if you don't know if gods exist, you certainly do not believe in gods. I couldn't have presented the point better myself, thank you!


So, let's review:

Anyone who does not adopt a belief in gods is an atheist.

Agnostics do not adopt belief in gods

Therefore, agnostics are atheists.

I never said the two words were equivalent, which makes your entire argument ridiculous. "If they were the same, we wouldn't need two words!"' .... wow man, you're a really deep thinker, haha

 

[Boss]

Correct on both counts. As you can clearly see, all agnostics are atheists, as, if you don't know if gods exist, you certainly do not believe in gods.

No, as any non-retard can see, a person who doesn't know if God exists is not equal to someone who doesn't believe God exists.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Correct on both counts. As you can clearly see, all agnostics are atheists, as, if you don't know if gods exist, you certainly do not believe in gods.

No, as any non-retard can see, a person who doesn't know if God exists is not equal to someone who doesn't believe God exists.

Yes, thank you for repeating my own thought back to me. No, they are not equal. I already said that. I also said that someone who does not even know if gods exist has not adopted a belief in God. Therefore that person is, in fact, an atheist.

 

[Boss]

No, they are not equal. I already said that.

No you didn't. You're tap dancing now. You're trying to have it both ways and you're looking like a complete fool. If you do not know if God exists, you have neither a belief or disbelief in God. You are undecided. God MAY exist... God MAY NOT exist. An Atheist believes God doesn't exist.

I've spent far too much of time arguing this nonsense with you. If you just want to get in the last word, so be it. You've not made your point, you sound like an idiot and you seem perfectly content with doubling down on your idiocy. Knock yourself out, FunBaggz!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No, they are not equal. I already said that.

No you didn't. You're tap dancing now. You're trying to have it both ways and you're looking like a complete fool. If you do not know if God exists, you have neither a belief or disbelief in God. You are undecided. God MAY exist... God MAY NOT exist. An Atheist believes God doesn't exist.

I've spent far too much of time arguing this nonsense with you. If you just want to get in the last word, so be it. You've not made your point, you sound like an idiot and you seem perfectly content with doubling down on your idiocy. Knock yourself out, FunBaggz!

I didn't argue equivalence. I clearly argued, "If A, then B." You, in your usual way of mangling all the rules of logic, made the leap that I was therefore ALSO saying, "If B, then A", which would complete the argument of equivalence. This is a common logical error called the converse error, and you make it often.

Okay, I'll try this one more time. Slowly, with your finger on the screen as you go this time:

An agnostic does not know if God exists.

If one does not know that God exists, then that one has not accepted a belief in God.

One who has not accepted a belief in God is an atheist.

Therefore, all agnostics are atheists.

 

[Mac1958]

I don't think there are many real atheists. Even the great Christopher Hitchens (RIP Hitch), the author of the book "God is Not Great", said that he would believe if he had proof.

He did think of himself as an "anti-theist", however, in that he was very much against organized religion, regardless of whether God exists or not.
.

If you don't think Hitchens was an atheist then you have no idea what the word means.

There are plenty of resources. Go to YouTube and he'll explain the difference to you himself.
.

Hitchens was an atheist, as are all agnostics.

I'm agnostic, and I'm not an atheist.

I simply am willing to admit that I don't know.

And I know others like me.
.

"I'm agnostic, and I'm not an atheist."

Of course you are. "Atheist" is one who lacks belief in god. All agnostics lack belief in god. Else, they would be theists. Most people have been using the word "atheist" incorrectly. An atheist who believes/"knows" there is no god is a "gnostic atheist", which is a special case of atheism, just as a square is a special case of a rectangle.

but, we don't call rectangles, "not-square rectangles", do we? So, "agnostic atheist " is a cumbersome, unnecessary term. You are either theist, or atheist. Agnostics are all atheists.

That's your personal definition of the words, not mine.

I say I'm agnostic because I don't know. An atheist says there is absolutely no God. That's a pretty clear distinction to me.
.

 

[badger2]

OP tries to get everyone to know about shit that's going on on the other side of the planet to finally once and for all resolve the ignorance dilemma of the naive agnostic..

"I Truth, lie."
(Jacques Lacan)

 

[Syriusly]

I think he is just making a distinction between what people say and the inner doubts that every has about anything from time to time...especially after praying for decades with no answer most people will start to wonder and they may never admit that to you out of fear of being perceived as weak or faithless or even worse, an unbeliever......

There is a distinct difference the moron fails to recognize. Believing God exists is not the same thing as questioning one's faith in God. Two entirely different things. I can believe God exists while questioning whether my "version" of God is correct.

My original point was that most religious believers in God have, at some time, questioned their faith. Not that they doubted God existed... an entirely different argument. Prager pointed out that most Atheists are reluctant to question their beliefs. He cites a symposium he attended where he was debating an Atheist before a predominately Atheist audience and he asked them for a show of hands to his second question, "Do you ever have doubts about your beliefs?" Not a single hand went up.

I don't know if this means much but I found in an interesting contrast with "believers" who constantly question their faith. I'm not entirely sure I agree with Prager on this. In a recent study on Atheism in Denmark, the most Atheistic country on the planet, some interesting facts emerged. While nearly 66% profess to be "Atheist," when the follow-up question was asked, "Do you believe there is absolutely no possibility of any God whatsoever?" Only 32% of the 66% answered affirmatively. So, only a third of self-professed Atheists were willing to go so far as to say there is absolutely no possibility of any God whatsoever. And that seems to dovetail nicely with many early responses to this thread, where several of USMB's most Atheistic posters refused to acknowledge their own Atheism, if favor of a more "intellectual" Agnostic position. Some even went so far as to associate Agnosticism with Atheism as if they are one in the same.

As I've said before, some "Atheists" are bigger believers in God than some "Christians."

What gets me about atheists is that one minute they say that God is an evil bastard for allowing evil people to get away with doing evil things without intervening and the next minute say that God is an amoral heartless bastard for intervening and destroying the very same people who they complain about getting away with perpetuating evil.

Seems like their entire argument is based solely on derision.

What gets me about Christians is that they are calling for the death of gay people.

What you say- most Christians don't say that? No- but there are Christians that do- just as there are Atheists that say stuff.

As an atheist- I don't believe in God- so I don't say God is an evil Bastard- because he doesn't exist. Long ago I did question why the God of the Bible killed so many people- but I long ago moved on from that- if pressed I could question why you believe in a God that has killed so many- and ordered so many killed- but asking why people believe in some fairy in the sky is fruitless.