Turkey shoots down Russian jet

[frigidweirdo]

The US doesn't give a damn about the repressed. It only cares about its own self interest.

Those self interests may include the "repressed".

May include, but don't.

There are many repressed people in the world. The US went to war against Germany to help repressed people. Oh, but black people couldn't fight alongside white people. Er......

What about the repressed people of Rwanda, Burundi, Myanmar, DRC, Zimbabwe? Why does the US do nothing?

A war started by a democrat we might add... But please,,,,, carry on

-Geaux

You might add, but who cares? It's only if you're into Partisan nonsense that you'd care.

But, the carry on part, you haven't commented on the topic, you know that's against the rules right?

Well of course it does. You state The 'US doesn't give a damn about the repressed' but in the case, the US represents the POTUS. My comment is that said POTUS who go to war are Democrat

Thanks for pointing out the rules ......

-Geaux

Fine, you go ahead and play little games. I'll just choose to ignore you.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Britain has up to 12 Typhoon warplanes - designed for air-to-air combat - on standby to support Turkey in any revenge attack by Putin's forces. Home | Daily Mail Online
Why would they do this.....plane was clearly in Syria, thus the shoot down is nothing but a provocation.....Turkey should get some ass kicking from Nato taking heads instead of UK plunging into madness

Firstly, Turkey is claiming the plane went into Turkish airspace ten times in as many minutes. If true then what do the Russian have? Secondly if this keeps happening, then Turkey is basically making a point that the Russians should fuck off out of their airspace and they WILL do something next time too.

Clearly in Syrian airspace? I'm not sure that this is clear.

The UK is a part of NATO, just like Turkey, oh, and the US.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Britain has up to 12 Typhoon warplanes - designed for air-to-air combat - on standby to support Turkey in any revenge attack by Putin's forces. Home | Daily Mail Online
Why would they do this.....plane was clearly in Syria, thus the shoot down is nothing but a provocation.....Turkey should get some ass kicking from Nato taking heads instead of UK plunging into madness

Firstly, Turkey is claiming the plane went into Turkish airspace ten times in as many minutes. If true then what do the Russian have? Secondly if this keeps happening, then Turkey is basically making a point that the Russians should fuck off out of their airspace and they WILL do something next time too.

Clearly in Syrian airspace? I'm not sure that this is clear.

The UK is a part of NATO, just like Turkey, oh, and the US.

Think its been proven it didnt

 

[Manonthestreet]

Update: here’s the radar picture showing both the Su-24 and the F-16 tracks. The violation was quite short (17 seconds). According to the Turkish authorities the Russian plane was issued 10 warnings in 5 minutes before being shot down.

Updated: Turkey has just shot down a Russian Sukhoi Su-24 near the border with Syria
They may both be lying but it appears Turkey is telling a whopper

 

[frigidweirdo]

Britain has up to 12 Typhoon warplanes - designed for air-to-air combat - on standby to support Turkey in any revenge attack by Putin's forces. Home | Daily Mail Online
Why would they do this.....plane was clearly in Syria, thus the shoot down is nothing but a provocation.....Turkey should get some ass kicking from Nato taking heads instead of UK plunging into madness

Firstly, Turkey is claiming the plane went into Turkish airspace ten times in as many minutes. If true then what do the Russian have? Secondly if this keeps happening, then Turkey is basically making a point that the Russians should fuck off out of their airspace and they WILL do something next time too.

Clearly in Syrian airspace? I'm not sure that this is clear.

The UK is a part of NATO, just like Turkey, oh, and the US.

Think its been proven it didnt

Next time, try writing it so I can understand it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Update: here’s the radar picture showing both the Su-24 and the F-16 tracks. The violation was quite short (17 seconds). According to the Turkish authorities the Russian plane was issued 10 warnings in 5 minutes before being shot down.

Updated: Turkey has just shot down a Russian Sukhoi Su-24 near the border with Syria
They may both be lying but it appears Turkey is telling a whopper

And where did that come from? I'm sure I could draw a prettier picture.

 

[Manonthestreet]

This radar map, released by the Turkish military (via the New York Times), purports to show the flight path of the Russian Su-24 Fencer shot down earlier today:
The “nub” of Turkish airspace, where Turkey claims Russia had violated its airspace is under two miles wide.

In fast-jet terms, crossing this area would have taken a matter of seconds, not minutes. As such, it appears that the shoot-down came after warnings were made to the Russian aircraft while it was near the border, but the engagement only happened after the Su-24 had violated the border, although in a shallow and most likely brief manner.

As for the type of aircraft involved, the Su-24 is a strike platform; it likely posed no threat to Turkish F-16s. Complicating matters further, Russia now claims that its radar data shows the F-16s entered Syrian airspace during the engagement. Russia Loses Attack Jet And Helicopter In Syria In One Day: Here's What We Know

 

[Phoenall]

The US is fighting ISIS
The US is supporting anti-Assad rebels.

Assad is fighting ISIS
Assad is fighting anti-Assad rebels

Russia is fighting ISIS
Russia is fighting anti-Assad rebels

Turkey is fighting ISIS
Turkey is fighting the PKK

The PKK is fighting Turkey
The PKK is fighting ISIS

ISIS is fighting everyone

Not only that you have:

Jund al-Aqsa fighting Assad
Jund al-Aqsa fighting ISIS
Jund al-Aqsa fighting Hazzm
Jund al-Aqsa fighting Syrian Revolutionary Front

The Syrian Revolutionary Front fighting Assad
The Syrian Revolutionary Front fighting Hazzm
The Syrian Revolutionary Front fighting ISIS
The Syrian Revolutionary Front fighting al Nursa front
The Syrian Revolutionary Front fighting Yamourk Martyrs Brigade
The Syrian Revolutionary Front fighting Jund al-Aqsa

al-Nusra Front is fighting Assad
al-Nusra Front is fighting Russia
al-Nusra Front is fighting Lebanon
al-Nusra Front is fighting Rojava
al-Nusra Front is fighting Free Syrian Army
al-Nusra Front is fighting Dawn of Freedom Brigades
al-Nusra Front is fighting Syrian Revolutionary Front
al-Nusra Front is fighting Hazzm
al-Nusra Front is fighting Southern Front of the Free Syrian Army
al-Nusra Front is fighting Hezbolla
al-Nusra Front is fighting Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq
al-Nusra Front is fighting Al-Abbsa Brigade
al-Nusra Front is fighting ISIS


You get the point, there are millions of different individual conflicts going on, and Russia/Turkey is just another to add to the pie.

This is all good; the animals are focused on butchering each other for a change, and that is a plus. The shame is the West not doing enough to aid the really oppressed in those countries and instead are pandering to Muslims, i.e. just backasswards policy, on top of arming Iran with nukes. Pure idiocy.

All dictators eventually collapse; keeping the collateral damage from spreading is sane policy. The real issue for Americans is how much more will Obama screw up as a lame duck with a year or so left to work on enthusiastically spreading the violence and death to Europe and the U.S. We know Hillary and Lurch are completely incompetent re foreign policy and dealing with reality, so no sanity apparent in that direction.

The US doesn't give a damn about the repressed. It only cares about its own self interest.

Those self interests may include the "repressed".

May include, but don't.

There are many repressed people in the world. The US went to war against Germany to help repressed people. Oh, but black people couldn't fight alongside white people. Er......

What about the repressed people of Rwanda, Burundi, Myanmar, DRC, Zimbabwe? Why does the US do nothing?

No Oil or other resources

 

[frigidweirdo]

The US is fighting ISIS
The US is supporting anti-Assad rebels.

Assad is fighting ISIS
Assad is fighting anti-Assad rebels

Russia is fighting ISIS
Russia is fighting anti-Assad rebels

Turkey is fighting ISIS
Turkey is fighting the PKK

The PKK is fighting Turkey
The PKK is fighting ISIS

ISIS is fighting everyone

Not only that you have:

Jund al-Aqsa fighting Assad
Jund al-Aqsa fighting ISIS
Jund al-Aqsa fighting Hazzm
Jund al-Aqsa fighting Syrian Revolutionary Front

The Syrian Revolutionary Front fighting Assad
The Syrian Revolutionary Front fighting Hazzm
The Syrian Revolutionary Front fighting ISIS
The Syrian Revolutionary Front fighting al Nursa front
The Syrian Revolutionary Front fighting Yamourk Martyrs Brigade
The Syrian Revolutionary Front fighting Jund al-Aqsa

al-Nusra Front is fighting Assad
al-Nusra Front is fighting Russia
al-Nusra Front is fighting Lebanon
al-Nusra Front is fighting Rojava
al-Nusra Front is fighting Free Syrian Army
al-Nusra Front is fighting Dawn of Freedom Brigades
al-Nusra Front is fighting Syrian Revolutionary Front
al-Nusra Front is fighting Hazzm
al-Nusra Front is fighting Southern Front of the Free Syrian Army
al-Nusra Front is fighting Hezbolla
al-Nusra Front is fighting Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq
al-Nusra Front is fighting Al-Abbsa Brigade
al-Nusra Front is fighting ISIS


You get the point, there are millions of different individual conflicts going on, and Russia/Turkey is just another to add to the pie.

This is all good; the animals are focused on butchering each other for a change, and that is a plus. The shame is the West not doing enough to aid the really oppressed in those countries and instead are pandering to Muslims, i.e. just backasswards policy, on top of arming Iran with nukes. Pure idiocy.

All dictators eventually collapse; keeping the collateral damage from spreading is sane policy. The real issue for Americans is how much more will Obama screw up as a lame duck with a year or so left to work on enthusiastically spreading the violence and death to Europe and the U.S. We know Hillary and Lurch are completely incompetent re foreign policy and dealing with reality, so no sanity apparent in that direction.

The US doesn't give a damn about the repressed. It only cares about its own self interest.

Those self interests may include the "repressed".

May include, but don't.

There are many repressed people in the world. The US went to war against Germany to help repressed people. Oh, but black people couldn't fight alongside white people. Er......

What about the repressed people of Rwanda, Burundi, Myanmar, DRC, Zimbabwe? Why does the US do nothing?

No Oil or other resources

The DRC has resources, however the war means the resources come quicker and cheaper, so the US is happy with that war.

 

[Bleipriester]

Green light for Russian pilots to blow up any attackers!

Russian Air Force Responds to Turkish Military Aggression by Increasing the Number of Airstrikes in Northern Latakia

"The Russian Air Force did not need to attack Turkey directly in order to retaliate; instead, they have responded to the Turkish military aggression with an increase in the number of airstrikes over the Turkmen Mountains (Jabal Al-Turkmen), Kurdish Mountains (Jabal Al-Akrad), and the Prophet Jonah Mountains (Jabal Nabi Younis) of northern Latakia.


According to several battlefield reports from local sources in northern Latakia, the Russian Air Force’s SU-24 fighter jets and their MI-24 Hind Helicopter Gunships have already conducted three dozen airstrikes over the Turkmen Mountains, Kurdish Mountains, and the Prophet Jonah Mountains, while following the same route their downed pilots took the day they were shot down by the Turkish Air Defense.




The field source further added that the Russian Air Force has been ordered to respond to any-kind of provocation next to the Turkish-Syrian border; meaning, the Russian Air Force has been given the green light to retaliate against any group that fire on their aircraft.


The Turkish government believes they have a moral obligation to protect the Turkmen people living in northern Syria (specifically northern Latakia, despite the fact that this territory is internationally recognized as Syria – not Turkey.


The Russian Federation’s president, Vladimir Putin, has stated that Russia will not militarily retaliate against Turkey; however, he did warn that any future attack on Russian military assets will not go unpunished."

http://www.almasdarnews.com/article...the-number-of-airstrikes-in-northern-latakia/

 

[Alex.]

This is all good; the animals are focused on butchering each other for a change, and that is a plus. The shame is the West not doing enough to aid the really oppressed in those countries and instead are pandering to Muslims, i.e. just backasswards policy, on top of arming Iran with nukes. Pure idiocy.

All dictators eventually collapse; keeping the collateral damage from spreading is sane policy. The real issue for Americans is how much more will Obama screw up as a lame duck with a year or so left to work on enthusiastically spreading the violence and death to Europe and the U.S. We know Hillary and Lurch are completely incompetent re foreign policy and dealing with reality, so no sanity apparent in that direction.

The US doesn't give a damn about the repressed. It only cares about its own self interest.

Those self interests may include the "repressed".

May include, but don't.

There are many repressed people in the world. The US went to war against Germany to help repressed people. Oh, but black people couldn't fight alongside white people. Er......

What about the repressed people of Rwanda, Burundi, Myanmar, DRC, Zimbabwe? Why does the US do nothing?

Give it a rest there is just so much material and resources to go around. Are you doing anything about these "repressed" folks?

Give it a rest? Why would I do that? Why would I not try and bring the government to account?

They don't care about repressed people. What I do or don't do has nothing to do with this topic.

You did not address my question

 

[waltky]

Russia gonna turn the other cheek - for now...

Turkey Downing Jet 'Planned Provocation,' but Not Going to War
November 25, 2015: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday that Turkey's downing of a Russian warplane "looks like a planned provocation," but that Russia is not going to war with Turkey.

Lavrov said the incident will make Russia reconsider its relationship with Turkey. He canceled a planned trip to Turkey on Wednesday, but spoke with Turkey's foreign minister and the two agreed to meet in the coming days. Separately, Russia's Foreign Ministry said in a statement Wednesday that Lavrov told Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu in a phone call that in shooting down the Russian jet, Turkey's leadership "has, in essence, sided with" the Islamic State group.

A policeman walks past the Turkish Embassy with broken window planes in Moscow, Russia​

Meanwhile, one of the pilots who parachuted from the Su-24 arrived Wednesday at a Russian base in Latakia after being rescued by members of the Syrian army. Speaking to reporters there, he denied that the jet had entered Turkey's airspace "even even for a single second" and insisted that the Turkish authorities had issued "no warnings whatsoever" to the plane before it was shot down.

The Russian Navy's large landing ship Caesar Kunikov sets sail in the Bosphorus towards the Black Sea, in Istanbul, Turkey​

At an event Wednesday in Istanbul, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the plane crashed in Syria but was still inside Turkey's airspace when it was hit Tuesday Other Turkish officials said that the plane was as deep as 2 kilometers over the border for about 17 seconds, and that its forces issued 10 warnings that were ignored before they fired. Russia insists the plane never left Syrian territory.

US comment

See also:

Russian pilot: Turkey gave no warning, 'no way' the jet violated airspace
Nov. 25, 2015 -- The surviving pilot of the Russian fighter jet shot down by Turkey said the aircraft was not given warnings, contrary to what Turkish leaders have declared.

Capt. Konstantin Murakhtin said he and fellow pilot Lt. Col. Oleg Peshkov, who died by rebel gunfire on the ground after ejecting from the aircraft, were not given any visual or radio warnings. He said he did not fly over Turkish airspace because the crew knew the region "like the back of their hand." Turkey said they gave the pilots 10 warnings before shooting down the Russian Su-24 jet.

A war plane crashing in flames in a mountainous area in northern Syria after it was shot down by Turkish fighter jets near the Turkish-Syrian border, is seen in this still image taken from video​

The warplane was downed and crashed Tuesday in an area controlled by rebels trying to overthrow Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, a Russian ally. Turkey said it warned the Russian aircraft 10 times to move out of its airspace before firing. "One on board was wounded when he parachuted down and [was] killed in a savage way on the ground by jihadists in the area. The other managed to escape. According to the latest information he has been picked up by the Syrian Army and should be going back to the Russian Air Force base," Aleksandr Orlov, Russia's ambassador in France, said.

A Russian Marine dispatched to rescue the pilots was also killed in the operation. He was aboard a helicopter sent to the contested area to find the downed pilots. Shoigu also announced Russia will deploy its most modern air defense system, the S-400 mobile anti-aircraft designed to hit targets at long range.

Russian pilot: Turkey gave no warning, 'no way' the jet violated airspace

 

[frigidweirdo]

The US doesn't give a damn about the repressed. It only cares about its own self interest.

Those self interests may include the "repressed".

May include, but don't.

There are many repressed people in the world. The US went to war against Germany to help repressed people. Oh, but black people couldn't fight alongside white people. Er......

What about the repressed people of Rwanda, Burundi, Myanmar, DRC, Zimbabwe? Why does the US do nothing?

Give it a rest there is just so much material and resources to go around. Are you doing anything about these "repressed" folks?

Give it a rest? Why would I do that? Why would I not try and bring the government to account?

They don't care about repressed people. What I do or don't do has nothing to do with this topic.

You did not address my question

Your question wasn't worth addressing.

 

[waltky]

Russia And Turkey Refuse To Back Down...

Russia and Turkey refuse to back down in row over jet downing
November 25, 2015 - Russia sent an advanced missile system to Syria to protect its jets operating there and pledged its air force would keep flying missions near Turkish air space, sounding a defiant note after Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet.

Underscoring the message, Russian forces launched a heavy bombardment against insurgent-held areas in Latakia on Wednesday, near where the jet was downed, rebels and a monitoring group said. The United States and Europe both urged calm and continued dialogue in telephone conversations with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, a sign of international concern at the prospect of any escalation between the former Cold War enemies.

The downing of the jet on Tuesday was one of the most serious publicly acknowledged clashes between a NATO member and Russia for half a century, and further complicated international efforts to battle Islamic State militants in Syria. President Tayyip Erdogan made no apology, saying his nation had simply been defending its own security and the "rights of our brothers in Syria". He made clear Turkish policy would not change.

Russian officials expressed fury over Turkey's action and spoke of retaliatory measures that were likely to include curbing travel by Russian tourists to Turkish resorts and some restrictions on trade. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov described it as a planned act and said it would affect efforts towards a political solution in Syria. Moscow would "seriously reconsider" its relations with Ankara, he said.

Jets believed to be Russian also hit a depot for trucks waiting to go through a major rebel-controlled border crossing with Turkey, Bab al-Salam, the head of the crossing said. Syrian jets have struck the area before, but if confirmed to have been carried out by Russia, it would be one of Moscow's closest air strikes to Turkish soil, targeting a humanitarian corridor into rebel-held Syria and a lifeline for ordinary Syrians crossing to Turkey.

DO NOT WANT WAR

See also:

Russian provocations led to the downing of its fighter jet by Turkey
November 25,`15 - FOLLOWING TURKEY’S shoot-down of a Russian military jet Tuesday, Western leaders rightly addressed themselves to heading off an escalation between Moscow and a NATO member. In the process, they were not as clear as they could have been about where responsibility for the incident lay. So we’ll say it: The first shoot-down by a NATO member of a Russian plane in 60 years is the result of the reckless and increasingly dangerous behavior of Vladimir Putin’s regime.

As NATO’s secretary general and a U.S. military spokesman confirmed, the SU-24 plane was struck after crossing into Turkey’s airspace; according to a statement by the Turkish Embassy in Washington, it was one of two planes that violated the frontier. Also confirmed by Western officials is that the Russian pilot failed to respond to 10 warnings.

Moreover, the airspace violation was not an isolated incident. Russian aircraft have repeatedly entered Turkish airspace since beginning operations in Syria in September. Russia apologized for one violation in October; in another case, it denied responsibility for a drone that Turkey shot down. NATO officials said the previous airspace violations looked deliberate — perhaps because they were not limited to Turkey. In the past several years Russian aircraft have invaded the airspace of and submarines have cruised the waters of numerous NATO and European countries — not to mention Mr. Putin’s outright invasion of Ukraine.

Mr. Putin claims Russian forces are in Syria to fight the Islamic State, but there were no jihadist forces in the area where the SU-24s were operating. Instead, they were attacking areas held by militias made up of ethnic Turkmen and backed by Turkey. Just last week the Turkish government summoned the Russian ambassador in Ankara to demand that Moscow stop bombing Turkmen villages, warning that “this could lead to serious consequences.” Russia’s response was to carry out new raids and to violate Turkish airspace.

Mr. Putin no doubt has been calculating that Turkey, like other NATO members, would not dare respond to his provocations with force. When he was proved wrong, like a bully unexpectedly punched, he resorted to lies and slanders: Russian planes were not in Turkish airspace; Turkey was defending the Islamic State; the attack was “a stab in the back.” That last phrase was made famous by another strongman, in Germany in the 1930s. It should give pause to those in the West who still cling to the notion that Mr. Putin can be converted into an ally.

Russian provocations led to the downing of its fighter jet by Turkey

 

[waltky]

Oops!...

Turkey Has Released Audio of Its ‘Warnings’ to the Downed Russian Plane
Nov. 25, 2015 - The jet's surviving pilot denies receiving them, and insists he did not enter Turkish airspace

Turkey’s military has released an audio recording of what it says were warnings to the Russian fighter jet it shot down on Tuesday, the BBC reported.

In the recording, a garbled voice is heard saying “change your heading south immediately” — a warning that the jet’s navigator says he never received before a Turkish missile struck his plane. The other pilot was killed by gunfire while parachuting from the aircraft, the BBC says.

The surviving pilot, Captain Konstantin Murakhtin, denies that the plane entered Turkish airspace. It ultimately crashed on a mountainside in Syria near the country’s border with Turkey.

Tensions have escalated between Ankara and Moscow in the wake of the incident. Turkey claims that it has tried to collaborate with the Russian military to prevent such conflicts.

Turkey Releases Audio of 'Warnings' to Downed Russian Plane

See also:

Turkey won't apologize for downing Russian warplane, Erdogan says
November 26, 2015 | (CNN)Turkey will not apologize for downing a Russian fighter jet it says violated Turkish airspace near the Syrian border, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said in an exclusive CNN interview Thursday in Ankara.

"I think if there is a party that needs to apologize, it is not us," he said from the Turkish capital. "Those who violated our airspace are the ones who need to apologize. Our pilots and our armed forces, they simply fulfilled their duties, which consisted of responding to ... violations of the rules of engagement. I think this is the essence." In a meeting with community leaders in Ankara, Erdogan said, "If the same violation occurs today, Turkey has to react the same way." Turkey has repeatedly said it shot down the Russian warplane on Tuesday only after the plane ignored several warnings and entered Turkish airspace.

Russia has contested the claim, and its rescued co-pilot Capt. Konstantin Murakhtin told state media that "there were no warnings -- not via the radio, not visually." Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has said the downing of the Russian jet did not appear spontaneous, but more "like a planned provocation." Russian President Vladimir Putin told reporters in Moscow on Thursday that the strike was unexpected. "It did not even come into our mind that we could be struck by a party that we considered to be our ally," he said. "We considered Turkey to be a friendly country."

Turkey's military has released audio it says proves its claim; Russia's Defense Ministry tweeted Thursday that the audio purporting to capture warnings issued by Turkish pilots to the crew of the downed jet was "a habitual fake." Putin has said the plane was attacked a kilometer inside Syrian territory, while Erdogan says it crashed in Turkey, injuring two people, after being in Turkish airspace for 17 seconds. "We knew there were two aircraft. One aircraft went back into Syria, and the second one was still in Turkish airspace and it was shot down by our aircraft," Erdogan told CNN.

Charges of terrorism

 

[Vikrant]

Russia gonna turn the other cheek - for now...

Turkey Downing Jet 'Planned Provocation,' but Not Going to War
November 25, 2015: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday that Turkey's downing of a Russian warplane "looks like a planned provocation," but that Russia is not going to war with Turkey.

Lavrov said the incident will make Russia reconsider its relationship with Turkey. He canceled a planned trip to Turkey on Wednesday, but spoke with Turkey's foreign minister and the two agreed to meet in the coming days. Separately, Russia's Foreign Ministry said in a statement Wednesday that Lavrov told Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu in a phone call that in shooting down the Russian jet, Turkey's leadership "has, in essence, sided with" the Islamic State group.

A policeman walks past the Turkish Embassy with broken window planes in Moscow, Russia​

Meanwhile, one of the pilots who parachuted from the Su-24 arrived Wednesday at a Russian base in Latakia after being rescued by members of the Syrian army. Speaking to reporters there, he denied that the jet had entered Turkey's airspace "even even for a single second" and insisted that the Turkish authorities had issued "no warnings whatsoever" to the plane before it was shot down.

The Russian Navy's large landing ship Caesar Kunikov sets sail in the Bosphorus towards the Black Sea, in Istanbul, Turkey​

At an event Wednesday in Istanbul, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the plane crashed in Syria but was still inside Turkey's airspace when it was hit Tuesday Other Turkish officials said that the plane was as deep as 2 kilometers over the border for about 17 seconds, and that its forces issued 10 warnings that were ignored before they fired. Russia insists the plane never left Syrian territory.

US comment

See also:

Russian pilot: Turkey gave no warning, 'no way' the jet violated airspace
Nov. 25, 2015 -- The surviving pilot of the Russian fighter jet shot down by Turkey said the aircraft was not given warnings, contrary to what Turkish leaders have declared.

Capt. Konstantin Murakhtin said he and fellow pilot Lt. Col. Oleg Peshkov, who died by rebel gunfire on the ground after ejecting from the aircraft, were not given any visual or radio warnings. He said he did not fly over Turkish airspace because the crew knew the region "like the back of their hand." Turkey said they gave the pilots 10 warnings before shooting down the Russian Su-24 jet.

A war plane crashing in flames in a mountainous area in northern Syria after it was shot down by Turkish fighter jets near the Turkish-Syrian border, is seen in this still image taken from video​

The warplane was downed and crashed Tuesday in an area controlled by rebels trying to overthrow Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, a Russian ally. Turkey said it warned the Russian aircraft 10 times to move out of its airspace before firing. "One on board was wounded when he parachuted down and [was] killed in a savage way on the ground by jihadists in the area. The other managed to escape. According to the latest information he has been picked up by the Syrian Army and should be going back to the Russian Air Force base," Aleksandr Orlov, Russia's ambassador in France, said.

A Russian Marine dispatched to rescue the pilots was also killed in the operation. He was aboard a helicopter sent to the contested area to find the downed pilots. Shoigu also announced Russia will deploy its most modern air defense system, the S-400 mobile anti-aircraft designed to hit targets at long range.

Russian pilot: Turkey gave no warning, 'no way' the jet violated airspace

It is slightly more complex than that.

Russia's primary objective is to stabilize Syria. If Russia gets involved in a shooting match with Turkey now then it will distract Russia from its objective. Russia has intensified attacks on Turkmen/IS in the same area where its Su-24 was shot down. The objective is to destroy the Turkish supported network that is stealing Syrian oil.

Once Syria is stable, Russia will have one more ally in the Middle East; this will better enable Russia to settle scores with Turkey should that become a desirable outcome later. Also, Erdogan is a dictator. His decisions may and may not be reflective of attitude of average Turks. So I think from Russian perspective, it will be best to wait it out and see what the future holds for Erdogan. Also, patience on Russia's part will garner sympathy from other NATO members such as Germany, France, etc. After all, a division among NATO members will be a desirable outcome from Russian perspective.

I think that is what the Russian strategy is.

 

[waltky]

Putin layin' fer Turkey...

Putin Warns of Payback for Turkey Downing Russian Warplane
Nov 25, 2015 | The downing of a Russian Su-24 attack aircraft by a Turkish F-16 fighter jet on Tuesday posed the threat of more dogfights over Syria and dashed French hopes of a "grand coalition" with the U.S. and Russia to combat the Islamic State.

Russian President Vladimir Putin immediately called the incident over the eastern Turkish-Syrian border a "stab in the back" and warned of "serious consequences." At a joint White House news conference with French President Francois Hollande, President Barack Obama said, "My top priority is to ensure this does not escalate" into more confrontations between the air arms of Russia and the U.S.-led coalition, which includes NATO ally Turkey. However, he said, "Turkey, like every country, has the right to defend its territory and its airspace."

Hollande, who will go to Moscow on Thursday for talks with Putin, echoed Obama in saying that Russia was welcome to join the coalition but only if Putin dropped support of the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and focused on defeating ISIS. U.S. officials said the downed jet was one of two Sukhoi Su-24s that were intercepted by two Turkish F-16s over the area where Turkey's Hatay province meets the Syrian border along the Mediterranean coast. Turkish officials said the Su-24s had violated Turkish airspace. The F-16 fired only after at least 10 warnings to leave the area were ignored, the officials said.

Russian officials just as adamantly maintained that the Su-24 was fired upon without warning over Syrian territory. Video from the private Turkish broadcaster Haberturk TV showed the Su-24, a two-seat, swept-wing aircraft with the NATO code name "Fencer," trailing smoke and going down in flames in a wooded area. U.S. officials confirmed that the Turkish planes gave at least 10 warnings. "We could hear everything" that was said in the radio transmissions, and "the Russians didn't respond," said Army Col. Steve Warren, a spokesman for Combined Joint Task Force-Operation Inherent Resolve in Baghdad. He also said that there was no "mayday" emergency call from the Russian plane.

The fate of the two crew members of the Su-24 was unclear. Initial reports were that both crew members had ejected safely but were shot by ethnic Turkmens in the area as their parachutes neared ground. Other reports said one of the crew members may have survived. Syrian activist groups also reported that the Russians may have suffered additional casualties in an effort by a Russian rescue helicopter to reach the two crew members. The Free Syrian Army, which is opposed to Assad and has receive support from the U.S., released footage showing rebels using a U.S. "TOW" wire-guided anti-tank missile to destroy a Russian helicopter on the ground.

MORE

See also:

Russian Pilot Rescued by Syrian Commando Unit
Nov 25, 2015 -- A Russian military pilot whose plane was shot down by Turkey and crashed in Syria arrived on Wednesday at an air base in Latakia province after being rescued by a Syrian army commando unit, Syrian and Russian officials said. Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu told Russian news agencies that the man was rescued in a 12-hour operation which ended in the early hours on Wednesday and is now "safe and sound" at Russia's air base in the government-controlled area in Syria.

Turkey shot down the Russian warplane on Tuesday, saying it ignored repeated warnings after crossing into its airspace from Syria. One of the two pilots was killed and captured by Syrian rebels who said they were searching for the other. The incident inflamed tensions between Turkey and Russia, and Russian President Vladimir Putin warned of "significant consequences." A statement from the Syrian armed forces on Wednesday said a special unit carried out overnight a "qualitative" operation with the Russian forces and rescued one of the two pilots. Russian President Vladimir Putin also confirmed a second pilot has been rescued.

In a statement carried by Syria's official news agency SANA, the army said the Syrian and Russian forces penetrated into the areas where "terrorists" are entrenched at a depth of 4.5 kilometers and rescued the pilot. It said he is in "good health." Russia's ambassador to France also said that the second pilot is in the hands of the Syrian army. Ambassador Alexander Orlov said on Europe-1 radio that one of the pilots was wounded, then killed on the ground by "jihadists." He said the other "managed to escape and be rescued by the Syrian army." He didn't elaborate. Orlov accused Turkey of being an "accomplice" of Islamic State extremists and playing an ambiguous role in Syria's civil war.

However, he played down concerns of escalation of violence among the international players involved in Syria. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Wednesday that his country does not wish to escalate tensions with Russia over the downing of the plane. Speaking at an Organisation of Islamic Cooperation economy meeting in Istanbul, Erdogan said that Turkey favors "peace, dialogue and diplomacy." Erdogan however defended his country's move to shoot down the plane saying: "no one should expect Turkey to stay silent to border violations or the violation of its rights."

Russian Pilot Rescued by Syrian Commando Unit | Military.com

Related:

Russia to Deploy S-400 Missile System Near Turkish Border
Nov 25, 2015 -- Russia will deploy the S-400 air defense missile system in the Syrian airbase of Hmeimim, 30 kilometers (18 miles) from the Syrian-Turkish border, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced on Wednesday.

"The S-400 air defense missile system will be brought to the Hmeimim base at the decision of the commander-in-chief," the minister said at a meeting with staff. The move comes after Turkey shot down a Russian Su-24 strike jet on Tuesday near the Syrian-Turkish border claiming that the jet violated Turkish airspace. Moscow denied the assertion. Russian aircraft are among the numerous nations conducting airstrikes in Syria. While Russian officials describe the operation there as "an anti-terrorism mission," U.S. and other officials have said the Russian strikes are designed to prop up the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

Russia plans to deploy the S-400 surface-to-air missile system, shown in this undated photo, to the Syrian airbase of Hmeimim, 30 kilometers (18 miles) from the Syrian-Turkish border.​

This S-400 surface-to-air missile system can shoot down aerial targets at a distance of 250 kilometers (156 miles) and non-strategic ballistic missiles at a distance of 60 kilometers (37.5 miles). The system, an older generation of air defense technology, can also target as many as 36 targets simultaneously.

Russian President Vladimir Putin accused Turkey on Tuesday of being "accomplices of terrorism" and warning that the downing of the jet will "have serious consequences" for Russian-Turkish relations. Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said on Wednesday that the relationship with Turkey has suffered a "damage difficult to compensate."

Russia to Deploy S-400 Missile System Near Turkish Border | Military.com

 

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Where do we go from here?...

What Happens Now? Military Experts Weigh Implications Of Russian Jet Downing
November 25, 2015 - Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says his country does not want an escalation in tensions with Russia after its jets shot down a Russian Su-24 warplane that Ankara said had strayed into its airspace close to the Syrian border. One of the pilots was killed -- possibly by a Syrian rebel group operating in the area -- a loss Russian President Vladimir Putin called a "stab in the back." To help understand the significance of the events, and what they mean going forward, we asked some of the world’s leading military experts and analysts to weigh in.

Implications Of The Jet Downing

Dmitry Gorenburg, Davis Center for Russian and Eurasian Studies at Harvard University: "What’s clear to me is that this comes at a time just after the downing of the Russian commercial airliner [over Egypt] and the Paris attacks, when there’s been a lot of talk of forming a coalition or alliance against Daesh (the Islamic State militant group). All these countries were supposed to start working together, but it’s pretty clear to me that the differing interests of the countries involved make that a difficult proposition now."

Edward Lucas, senior editor at The Economist weekly and senior vice president at the Center for European Policy Analysis, a think tank in Warsaw and Washington: "Up until now, this whole adventure looked great on Russian TV, with missiles being launched from the sea and videos of Russian jets. But today highlights that it’s a real war and Russia doesn’t have the ability to ensure that Russian airplanes can fly around safely. This was an accident waiting to happen. There are French, American, Russian, and Syrian planes all flying around in contested airspace and despite all the talk of deconfliction, it’s a very difficult thing to actually implement."

Alexander Clarkson, lecturer at King's College London: "Turkey never really liked what Russia was trying to do in Syria, so although Putin saw this as a conflict with the U.S., it’s clearly deeper than that. Turkey warned the Russians repeatedly that they wouldn’t tolerate incursions into their airspace, and at some point Erdogan had to throw his hands up and say, 'We need to send a message that we are serious about protecting our interests.'"

What Happens Now? Military Experts Weigh Implications Of Russian Jet Downing

See also:

Russia Turns Antisocial Toward Turkey
November 25, 2015 -- Vladimir Putin said there would be "serious consequences" after Turkish fighter jets shot down a Russian warplane on November 24. True to the Russian president's word, Moscow has issued a slew of retaliatory measures and proposals following the incident along the Syrian-Turkish border.

The Russian public, too, appears to be seething with anger and jingoistic pride, based on a spate of incidents on the streets and postings on social media. The Kremlin-funded news outlet RT, floating the hashtag "#StandWithRussia," proclaimed that "social network users are expressing solidarity with Russia after the crash." In Moscow on November 23, an angry crowd of protesters gathered outside the Turkish Embassy, holding signs reading: "We Won't Forget, We Won't Forgive" and "Murderers!

The following day, tempers apparently flared and witnesses said that protesters pelted the embassy building with eggs and stones. "The Turkish Embassy has been attacked," tweeted Russian photographer Yevgeny Feldman. Moscow-based blogger Filipp Kireyev provided video evidence of the damage to the embassy and of the "loads of broken glass and stones" that littered the street outside. Others, like Washington Post reporter Andrew Roth, made followers aware that anti-Turkish vandalism was not isolated to the capital.

Sergei Elkin, a Russian cartoonist, played off Putin's angry comment that he felt "stabbed in the back" by Turkey. Also playing off the president's comment, the hashtag #ударвспину (stab in the back) was trending. It featured a number of patriotic memes, one of which showed Putin hunting down Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. RT addressed some of the ways that Russian social network users were considering "punishing Turkey." The piece included one social media photo showing Erdogan nervously chewing his tie, a la Mikheil Saakashvili, the former Georgian president who is much reviled in Russia.

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Russia seeks economic revenge against Turkey over jet
Thu Nov 26, 2015 - Russia threatened economic retaliation against Turkey on Thursday and said it was still awaiting a reasonable explanation for the shooting down of its warplane, but Turkey dismissed the threats as "emotional" and "unfitting." In an escalating war of words, President Tayyip Erdogan responded to Russian accusations that Turkey has been buying oil and gas from Islamic State in Syria by accusing Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his backers, which include Moscow, of being the real source of the group's financial and military power.

The shooting down of the jet by the Turkish air force on Tuesday was one of the most serious clashes between a NATO member and Russia, and further complicated international efforts to battle Islamic State militants. World leaders have urged both sides to avoid escalation. In an apparent attempt to cool the dispute - and appeal to Western countries - Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said in a letter to Britain's Times newspaper that Ankara would work with its allies and Russia to "calm tensions". Earlier, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev ordered his government to draw up measures that would include freezing some joint investment projects and restricting food imports from Turkey.

Economy Minister Alexei Ulyukayev said Moscow could put limits on flights to and from Turkey, halt preparations for a joint free trade zone, and restrict high-profile projects including the TurkStream gas pipeline and a $20 billion nuclear power plant Russia is building in Turkey. Russia's defense ministry meanwhile said it had suspended all cooperation with the Turkish military, including a hotline set up to share information on Russian air strikes in Syria, the TASS news agency reported. "We are strategic partners ... 'Joint projects may be halted, ties could be cut'? Are such approaches fitting for politicians?," Erdogan said in a speech in Ankara. "First the politicians and our militaries should sit down and talk about where errors were made and then focus on overcoming those errors on both sides. But instead, if we make emotional statements like this, that wouldn't be right."

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Russia was still awaiting a reasonable answer from Ankara on why it downed the fighter jet. Moscow insists it never left Syrian air space, but Ankara says it crossed the border despite repeated warnings. The Turkish foreign ministry said diplomatic missions and Turkish business interests in Russia had come under attack and said Russia's ambassador in Ankara had been summoned in protest. Erdogan said the Russian jet was shot down as an "automatic reaction" to the violation of Turkish air space, in line with standing orders given to the military.

Those instructions were a separate issue to disagreements with Russia over Syria policy, he said, adding Ankara would continue to support moderate rebels in Syria and Turkmen fighters battling President Assad's forces. Erdogan told CNN that Russia, not Turkey, should be the one to apologize for the incident. And in an interview with France 24, he said he had called Putin after the jet was shot down but that the Russian leader had not yet called him back.

"PROVE YOUR CLAIMS"

 

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Will Putin apologize?...

Erdogan seeks Russian apology for trespassing Turkish airspace
Friday 27th November, 2015 - In an escalating war of words, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has refused to apologize for downing a Russian fighter near Turkish border with Syria and has, in fact, sought an apology from Russia for violating Turkish airspace.

"I think if there is a party that needs to apologize, it is not us," Erdogan told CNN in an "exclusive interview" from the Turkish capital of Ankara. "Those who violated our airspace are the ones who need to apologize. Our pilots and our armed forces, they simply fulfilled their duties, which consisted of responding to ... violations of the rules of engagement. I think this is the essence." The two nations have been at loggerheads with each other after the shooting down of the Russian jet by the Turkish air force on Tuesday. The incident was one of the most serious clashes between a NATO member and Russia, and further complicated international efforts to battle Islamic State militants in Syria and Iraq.

Amid allegations and counter-allegations, Russia President Vladimir Putin on Thursday said that Turkey was trying to bring its relations with Russia to a "dead end." Turkey has, on the other hand, threatened to "react the same way" if its airspace is violated again. "We knew there were two aircraft. One aircraft went back into Syria, and the second one was still in Turkish airspace and it was shot down by our aircraft," Erdogan said. World leaders have urged restraint to both sides so that any escalation of the conflict is avoided. However, it is getting uglier by the day.

On Thursday, Russia threatened economic retaliation against Turkey but Turkey dismissed the threats as "emotional" and "unfitting". Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev ordered his government to take up measures that would include freezing some joint investment projects and restricting food imports from Turkey. Economy Minister Alexei Ulyukayev said Moscow could put limits on flights to and from Turkey, halt preparations for a joint free trade zone, and restrict high-profile projects including the TurkStream gas pipeline and a $20 billion nuclear power plant Russia is building in Turkey.

Turkey has repeatedly said that the Russian warplane was shot down Tuesday only after the plane ignored several warnings and entered Turkish airspace. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has said the downing of the Russian jet did not appear spontaneous, but more "like a planned provocation." Russia has contested the claim. Its rescued co-pilot Capt. Konstantin Murakhtin told state media that "there were no warnings -- not via the radio, not visually." However, Turkey's military has released audio it says proves its claim. But Russia however alleged that the audio clip was "a habitual fake".

Erdogan seeks Russian apology for trespassing Turkish airspace

 

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Granny says, "Dat's right - neither one's tellin' the truth...

Turkey shoots down Russian plane: Physicists say both official accounts are scientifically impossible
Saturday 28 November 2015 - Dr Tom van Doorsslaere and Dr Giovanni Lapenta from Katholieke Universiteit Leuven say the plane was travelling too fast for Turkey's account and could not do the 90 degree turn Russia claims it did

Two Belgian astrophysicists have questioned both the official accounts of how a Russian military plane was shot down by Turkey on Tuesday. Writing a blogpost for their university, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Dr Tom van Doorsslaere and Dr Giovanni Lapenta, said the plane could not have gone down the way either country said it had. The Russian warplane was shot down by Turkish authorities on Tuesday and crashed a few miles into Syria. Turkey said it gave Russia 10 warnings about violating its airspace before firing but Russia has dismissed these claims as “rubbish”.

After watching a video of the incident which was posted online Dr van Doorsslaere and Dr Lapenta said according to their calculation the plane was travelling faster than Turkey said it was. Turkey said the plane was in their airspace for 17 seconds but the physicists concluded that when travelling at a speed of 980 km/h (609 m/h) the plane would have crossed over in just seven seconds. From this they said it was extremely unlikely they issued ten warnings in five minutes because the plane travelling at that speed could cross 80km (50m) in 80 seconds.

A map released by Russian authorities purporting to show where the plane made a 90 degree turn​

They said: “How could the Turkish airforce predict that the Russian jets were about to enter Turkish airspace? “Military jets are very agile, and in theory the Russian jets could have turned at the last moment to avoid Turkish airspace. “The warnings issued to the Russian pilots were mere speculation at the moment they were made.” But they don’t think Russian authorities are being entirely honest either. Russia has claimed the plane made a 90 degree turn after it was hit and it was actively trying to avoid Turkish airspace.

They explained that at that speed: “A change of course of 90 degrees can only be achieved with an object that’s many times heavier or faster than the jet.” They concluded: “According to our calculations, it is clear that both the story of Turkey and Russia should be taken with a grain of salt. “Estimates limit the violation of Turkish airspace to a maximum of 10s. Russia's claims not correspond to the laws of mechanics.”

Physicists say both Turkey and Russia are lying about the downed plane