try to convince me it was anything other than the official story.

[LA RAM FAN]

also forgot to mention that 7 of the worlds best scientists in the world studied samples they later came across years later of samples found where they found evidence of nano thermate in their dust samples which is further evidence explosives were used.not to mention idiots like agents Gam,Fizz and Gomer Pyle Ollie cant get around is that there are hundreds of architects and engineers who say explosives brought the towers down,but demolition experts as well that you have shown videos of these experts talking before Terral which they did not watch the videos of course since they have no interest in the truth,the readers here at USMB.

 

[HUGGY]

also forgot to mention that 7 of the worlds best scientists in the world studied samples they later came across years later of samples found where they found evidence of nano thermate in their dust samples which is further evidence explosives were used.not to mention idiots like agents Gam,Fizz and Gomer Pyke Ollie cant get around is that there are hundreds of architects and engineers who say explosives brought the towers down,but demolition experts as well that you have shown videos of these experts talking before Terral which they did not watch the videos of course since they have no interest in the truth,the readers here at USMB.

How do you post for a year and a half and have a minus rep? Christ I piss off everybody and can't go backwards like that!

People...especially americans do not want to know any "truth" that implies they are not the best and most revered creatures in existance. You are clearly wasting your time. If it didn't happen on Fox tv..it didn't happen.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Pay attention I'm getting tired of trying to school you. I know what I am talking about and you do not. Period!

Half its strength is still very strong. A 1 foot wide by 2 ft high I beam with a 1 inch thickness made of mild steel can easily support a load in the hundreds of thousands of pounds in the middle of a 20 ft span. shear is approximately 10,000 lbs per sq in. You do the math. Alloys are stronger. Half the strength is way more than needed. Vertically the same beam can support millions of pounds.

I though I was clear that jet fuel does not reach temps anywhere 2000 deg. You could not get jet fuel to burn at anything higher than between 500 deg F. and 1000 deg F in the open like how the fires were in those buildings. To get higher temps you need added oxygen. Also the fuel in the buildings burned off in a couple of minutes. You would have to heat those beams with a steady fire of over 2000 deg right on the steel ...not feet away but right on it for over a couple of hours to get the steel to raise in temp even up to 5 or
600 degs.

You need to be trying to fool someone else. I weld and bend steel almost everyday.

So go ahead and tell a building inspector that you are only going to use steel that is rated at half the strength that the codes call for. Or explain to a potential buyer of a high rise thet they shouldn't worry because half the strength called for will do the job just fine..... Give me a break.

Now why do you act as if it was only jet fuel that was burning? There was everything from carpeting to plastics and god only knows what in those offices that was burning, and the more fuel you add the hotter the fire. The jet fuel was only the catalyst that started the fires.

Nobody denies there were fires. The point of contention is contrasting the OV explanation to the critiques of engineers, architects, and other experts. One of the problems is the towers came down an hour after being hit. When dealing with hundreds thousands gazillion tons of steel it requires time for the fires to weaken them enough for collapse. I believe after nist released its first explanation it got slammed so hard they had to re-write their conclusion.

As for wtc 7 the most obvious issue is it took years to explain the collapse. That makes absolutely no sense. That amount of time is indicative of coming up with bullshit.

The other thing that takes them to school Curve that they cant get around is there have been fires that were were far more intense than these weak fires were that raged and went on for HOURS on end where they were lit up like a blow torch and they did not collapse.The Meridian fire in philadelphia for instance had raging fires that went on for hours and still stood.thease fires were just weak in the fact that they were so oxygen starved,that they omitted black smoke which is HARDLY a raging fire. and also,you can hear on tape the fire fighters voices saying-we should have them put out soon,their nothing serious. seconds before they collapsed.The twin towers also caught fire in the 70's once with fires that were far more intense than on 9/11.so much so that the papers said they were lit up light a blow torch.well THESE fires were HARDLY lit up like a blow torch. they just love to make themselves look like morons around here defending the official version.

 

[Gamolon]

Pay attention I'm getting tired of trying to school you. I know what I am talking about and you do not. Period!

Half its strength is still very strong. A 1 foot wide by 2 ft high I beam with a 1 inch thickness made of mild steel can easily support a load in the hundreds of thousands of pounds in the middle of a 20 ft span. shear is approximately 10,000 lbs per sq in. You do the math. Alloys are stronger. Half the strength is way more than needed. Vertically the same beam can support millions of pounds.

I though I was clear that jet fuel does not reach temps anywhere 2000 deg. You could not get jet fuel to burn at anything higher than between 500 deg F. and 1000 deg F in the open like how the fires were in those buildings. To get higher temps you need added oxygen. Also the fuel in the buildings burned off in a couple of minutes. You would have to heat those beams with a steady fire of over 2000 deg right on the steel ...not feet away but right on it for over a couple of hours to get the steel to raise in temp even up to 5 or
600 degs.

You need to be trying to fool someone else. I weld and bend steel almost everyday.

So go ahead and tell a building inspector that you are only going to use steel that is rated at half the strength that the codes call for. Or explain to a potential buyer of a high rise thet they shouldn't worry because half the strength called for will do the job just fine..... Give me a break.

Now why do you act as if it was only jet fuel that was burning? There was everything from carpeting to plastics and god only knows what in those offices that was burning, and the more fuel you add the hotter the fire. The jet fuel was only the catalyst that started the fires.

That's just stinkin thinkin there Ollie Ollie All come free. The fact is that half rated steel was not being used. My statement was to show that the steel even at half strength was totally sufficient in strength to withstand the forces safely. Ya there were other combustibles but as I stated earlier the space was well ventilated with all the broken windows so there was no way the heat could be concentrated enough and even if there were pockets of heat the temps could not get high enough to degrade the steel. There is a big difference in "room temp" and "direct flame contact".

I frequently work with a forge..a small blast furnace. It takes a long time and many thousands of degrees of direct contact with gas flame to get steel hot enough to make it . Divecon and fizzled out are blowhards with no knowledge of the characteristics of the materials we are disscussing.
They are just pubescent assholes that can't stand to be wrong and will go on endlessly calling names and throwing fits to try to win a losing arguement.

I do not have a conspiracy theory. All I can say for sure is what DID NOT HAPPEN. The steel did not fail because of the airplanes or the ensuing fires.. I realise that the crashes looked real impressive and destructive. If they did not knock the buildings down on impact then they were not the cause of the collapse.

Huggy,

Here's an example of what happens to steel when heated. This is just from a "hot July day".

Please explain how those steel tracks became "maluable" enough to bend when there was no direct flame involved as you claim there needs to be.

What about the steel in this picture? Thousands and thousands of degrees caused this to happen?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

also forgot to mention that 7 of the worlds best scientists in the world studied samples they later came across years later of samples found where they found evidence of nano thermate in their dust samples which is further evidence explosives were used.not to mention idiots like agents Gam,Fizz and Gomer Pyke Ollie cant get around is that there are hundreds of architects and engineers who say explosives brought the towers down,but demolition experts as well that you have shown videos of these experts talking before Terral which they did not watch the videos of course since they have no interest in the truth,the readers here at USMB.

How do you post for a year and a half and have a minus rep? Christ I piss off everybody and can't go backwards like that!

People...especially americans do not want to know any "truth" that implies they are not the best and most revered creatures in existance. You are clearly wasting your time. If it didn't happen on Fox tv..it didn't happen.

guess thats what happens when they hear the facts they cant refute when the truth hurts them. so true,their mindset is if fox tv says so,then it must be true. yeah I know their a waste of time,thats why I dont understand why you guys bother with them.I dont anymore.Its so obvious they are agents.People I show the DVD's to in real life,hardly anyone doesnt come around and say to me-wow,explosives DID bring those towers down.It was an inside job.where its only the NET people who refuse to listen to what archtiects,engineers,and witnesses say.pretty obvious I would say.

 

[HUGGY]

So go ahead and tell a building inspector that you are only going to use steel that is rated at half the strength that the codes call for. Or explain to a potential buyer of a high rise thet they shouldn't worry because half the strength called for will do the job just fine..... Give me a break.

Now why do you act as if it was only jet fuel that was burning? There was everything from carpeting to plastics and god only knows what in those offices that was burning, and the more fuel you add the hotter the fire. The jet fuel was only the catalyst that started the fires.

That's just stinkin thinkin there Ollie Ollie All come free. The fact is that half rated steel was not being used. My statement was to show that the steel even at half strength was totally sufficient in strength to withstand the forces safely. Ya there were other combustibles but as I stated earlier the space was well ventilated with all the broken windows so there was no way the heat could be concentrated enough and even if there were pockets of heat the temps could not get high enough to degrade the steel. There is a big difference in "room temp" and "direct flame contact".

I frequently work with a forge..a small blast furnace. It takes a long time and many thousands of degrees of direct contact with gas flame to get steel hot enough to make it . Divecon and fizzled out are blowhards with no knowledge of the characteristics of the materials we are disscussing.
They are just pubescent assholes that can't stand to be wrong and will go on endlessly calling names and throwing fits to try to win a losing arguement.

I do not have a conspiracy theory. All I can say for sure is what DID NOT HAPPEN. The steel did not fail because of the airplanes or the ensuing fires.. I realise that the crashes looked real impressive and destructive. If they did not knock the buildings down on impact then they were not the cause of the collapse.

Huggy,

Here's an example of what happens to steel when heated. This is just from a "hot July day".

Please explain how those steel tracks became "maluable" enough to bend when there was no direct flame involved as you claim there needs to be.

What about the steel in this picture? Thousands and thousands of degrees caused this to happen?

What is that supposed to prove?...the train tracks. Train tracks are toothpicks compared to the steel in those buildings. They are not supported in any way similar. Do you think sunlight melted the train tracks? I hope you were trying to be funny. Otherwise you are an idiot. The other picture? What does that have to do with anything we are discussing? Lets stick to comparing apples to apples.

 

[CurveLight]

So go ahead and tell a building inspector that you are only going to use steel that is rated at half the strength that the codes call for. Or explain to a potential buyer of a high rise thet they shouldn't worry because half the strength called for will do the job just fine..... Give me a break.

Now why do you act as if it was only jet fuel that was burning? There was everything from carpeting to plastics and god only knows what in those offices that was burning, and the more fuel you add the hotter the fire. The jet fuel was only the catalyst that started the fires.

Nobody denies there were fires. The point of contention is contrasting the OV explanation to the critiques of engineers, architects, and other experts. One of the problems is the towers came down an hour after being hit. When dealing with hundreds thousands gazillion tons of steel it requires time for the fires to weaken them enough for collapse. I believe after nist released its first explanation it got slammed so hard they had to re-write their conclusion.

As for wtc 7 the most obvious issue is it took years to explain the collapse. That makes absolutely no sense. That amount of time is indicative of coming up with bullshit.

The other thing that takes them to school Curve that they cant get around is there have been fires that were were far more intense than these weak fires were that raged and went on for HOURS on end where they were lit up like a blow torch and they did not collapse.The Meridian fire in philadelphia for instance had raging fires that went on for hours and still stood.thease fires were just weak in the fact that they were so oxygen starved,that they omitted black smoke which is HARDLY a raging fire. and also,you can hear on tape the fire fighters voices saying-we should have them put out soon,their nothing serious. seconds before they collapsed.The twin towers also caught fire in the 70's once with fires that were far more intense than on 9/11.so much so that the papers said they were lit up light a blow torch.well THESE fires were HARDLY lit up like a blow torch. they just love to make themselves look like morons around here defending the official version.

The problem with comparisons to other skyscraper fires is they weren't hit with commercial jets. The B-25 accident is also a thought comparison due to size.

The burden of proving the towers came down due to the planes and subsequent fires rests on the shoulders of those claiming the ov is true. From what I have seen they have failed to present a convincing argument to date.

 

[Gamolon]

Huggy,

Another question.

I've worked in steel mills as a construction supervisor and also designed industrial piping. Please explain why steel mills and other facilities incorporate "expansion loops" into high temperature pipe runs, for example, steam piping? Why do they not weld or bolt down every inch of that pipe run?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Here is just one video that also proves explosives brought the towers down that they have never been able to debunk.as you can see from the video,they talk about what I mentioned before where the firemen are on tape saying-the fires should be put out soon.

9/11 Firefighters say Explosives brought down Twin Towers Video by Harry - MySpace Video

 

[Gamolon]

That's just stinkin thinkin there Ollie Ollie All come free. The fact is that half rated steel was not being used. My statement was to show that the steel even at half strength was totally sufficient in strength to withstand the forces safely. Ya there were other combustibles but as I stated earlier the space was well ventilated with all the broken windows so there was no way the heat could be concentrated enough and even if there were pockets of heat the temps could not get high enough to degrade the steel. There is a big difference in "room temp" and "direct flame contact".

I frequently work with a forge..a small blast furnace. It takes a long time and many thousands of degrees of direct contact with gas flame to get steel hot enough to make it . Divecon and fizzled out are blowhards with no knowledge of the characteristics of the materials we are disscussing.
They are just pubescent assholes that can't stand to be wrong and will go on endlessly calling names and throwing fits to try to win a losing arguement.

I do not have a conspiracy theory. All I can say for sure is what DID NOT HAPPEN. The steel did not fail because of the airplanes or the ensuing fires.. I realise that the crashes looked real impressive and destructive. If they did not knock the buildings down on impact then they were not the cause of the collapse.

Huggy,

Here's an example of what happens to steel when heated. This is just from a "hot July day".

Please explain how those steel tracks became "maluable" enough to bend when there was no direct flame involved as you claim there needs to be.

What about the steel in this picture? Thousands and thousands of degrees caused this to happen?

What is that supposed to prove?...the train tracks. Train tracks are toothpicks compared to the steel in those buildings. They are not supported in any way similar. Do you think sunlight melted the train tracks? I hope you were trying to be funny. Otherwise you are an idiot. The other picture? What does that have to do with anything we are discussing? Lets stick to comparing apples to apples.

Ok. How much would a 30ft steel I beam expand in a 1000F fire? If the ends were bolted down, what happens to those bolted connections as a result of the expansion of the beam?

If you don't understand how thermal expansion, steel strength degradation due to fire, and stress designs of a structure, all come into play in the collapse of a building, I don;t know what to tell you.

You also didn't answer the question. How did the tracks bend (become malleable) with only the heat of a July day beating down on them?

 

[HUGGY]

Huggy,

Another question.

I've worked in steel mills as a construction supervisor and also designed industrial piping. Please explain why steel mills and other facilities incorporate "expansion loops" into high temperature pipe runs, for example, steam piping? Why do they not weld or bolt down every inch of that pipe run?

EVERYTHING expands and contracts. If you have worked in steel mills and installed lengths of pipe in buildings then you should already know that. That has nothing to to with what we are discussing. You should know that to. Expansion due to temp changes is designed into the structure. The expansion even at high temps is minimal. A 4-500 deg swing in temp only amounts to a few thousandths(5-10) of an inch per foot.

The expansion joints you refer to in pipe has more to do with what is in the pipes such as water that can freeze causing preasures from within that can burst the pipe if not accounted for. And you should know that also. I think you are trying to baffle with bullshit now that you are arguing with someone that you can't dazzle with your "brilliance".

 

[SFC Ollie]

also forgot to mention that 7 of the worlds best scientists in the world studied samples they later came across years later of samples found where they found evidence of nano thermate in their dust samples which is further evidence explosives were used.not to mention idiots like agents Gam,Fizz and Gomer Pyke Ollie cant get around is that there are hundreds of architects and engineers who say explosives brought the towers down,but demolition experts as well that you have shown videos of these experts talking before Terral which they did not watch the videos of course since they have no interest in the truth,the readers here at USMB.

How do you post for a year and a half and have a minus rep? Christ I piss off everybody and can't go backwards like that!

People...especially americans do not want to know any "truth" that implies they are not the best and most revered creatures in existance. You are clearly wasting your time. If it didn't happen on Fox tv..it didn't happen.

Because he keeps posting the same made up BS and refuses to listen to logic. But I haven't neg reped him, yet.

 

[Gamolon]

Do you think sunlight melted the train tracks? I hope you were trying to be funny.

Keep laughing. The above comment just shows your ignorance.

What happens when a piece of a track or beam is tied down in such a way that it cannot expand horizontally due to thermal expansion?

According to your bizzare explanations, steel can only deform when thousands and thousands of degrees are applied to it.

Moving on, if the ends of the steel beam or track were just bolted down, what would win out during the thermal expansion? Would the bolted ends shear or would the steel beam buckle like the tracks?

 

[SFC Ollie]

also forgot to mention that 7 of the worlds best scientists in the world studied samples they later came across years later of samples found where they found evidence of nano thermate in their dust samples which is further evidence explosives were used.not to mention idiots like agents Gam,Fizz and Gomer Pyke Ollie cant get around is that there are hundreds of architects and engineers who say explosives brought the towers down,but demolition experts as well that you have shown videos of these experts talking before Terral which they did not watch the videos of course since they have no interest in the truth,the readers here at USMB.

How do you post for a year and a half and have a minus rep? Christ I piss off everybody and can't go backwards like that!

People...especially americans do not want to know any "truth" that implies they are not the best and most revered creatures in existance. You are clearly wasting your time. If it didn't happen on Fox tv..it didn't happen.

guess thats what happens when they hear the facts they cant refute when the truth hurts them. so true,their mindset is if fox tv says so,then it must be true. yeah I know their a waste of time,thats why I dont understand why you guys bother with them.I dont anymore.Its so obvious they are agents.People I show the DVD's to in real life,hardly anyone doesnt come around and say to me-wow,explosives DID bring those towers down.It was an inside job.where its only the NET people who refuse to listen to what archtiects,engineers,and witnesses say.pretty obvious I would say.

You must know some real losers. I deal with people from all walks of life and don't know one person outside of conspiracy boards that believe there was any explosives involved or that our government had anything to do with it.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Nobody denies there were fires. The point of contention is contrasting the OV explanation to the critiques of engineers, architects, and other experts. One of the problems is the towers came down an hour after being hit. When dealing with hundreds thousands gazillion tons of steel it requires time for the fires to weaken them enough for collapse. I believe after nist released its first explanation it got slammed so hard they had to re-write their conclusion.

As for wtc 7 the most obvious issue is it took years to explain the collapse. That makes absolutely no sense. That amount of time is indicative of coming up with bullshit.

The other thing that takes them to school Curve that they cant get around is there have been fires that were were far more intense than these weak fires were that raged and went on for HOURS on end where they were lit up like a blow torch and they did not collapse.The Meridian fire in philadelphia for instance had raging fires that went on for hours and still stood.thease fires were just weak in the fact that they were so oxygen starved,that they omitted black smoke which is HARDLY a raging fire. and also,you can hear on tape the fire fighters voices saying-we should have them put out soon,their nothing serious. seconds before they collapsed.The twin towers also caught fire in the 70's once with fires that were far more intense than on 9/11.so much so that the papers said they were lit up light a blow torch.well THESE fires were HARDLY lit up like a blow torch. they just love to make themselves look like morons around here defending the official version.

The problem with comparisons to other skyscraper fires is they weren't hit with commercial jets. The B-25 accident is also a thought comparison due to size.

The burden of proving the towers came down due to the planes and subsequent fires rests on the shoulders of those claiming the ov is true. From what I have seen they have failed to present a convincing argument to date.

they sure have.The disinfo agents when they like to bring that point into the mix after being schooled,thats when I post this video for them below to watch.

9/11 Firefighters say Explosives brought down Twin Towers Video by Harry - MySpace Video

Frank Demartini was the onsite construction manager of the towers and as you can hear on the video,he says they designed it so that it could take hits from MULTIPLE airliners and they would still remain standing.so that takes away their argument they come up with when they say it was designed to take a hit from a 707 not a 747.they always use that lame comeback.they used to anyways,not so much anymore I have noticed because of Demartini's comments on how it could take MULTIPLE impacts from airilners.the shit they come back with at that point is just unreal.

When they bring up that those other buildings were not hit by an airliner either attempt to get away from the facts of the case,I show not only Demartini's comments with that video,but also what John Skilling the lead engineer said back in 93 after the first bombing when asked what would happen if an airliner slammed into it back then,he went on to say that they designed the towers in anticipation of an airliner slamming into it that there would be a great loss of lives due to the fires yet the structure itself would remain standing.as i said eairlier,when I point out these facts to people I know in REAL life and show them DVD'S,they see the truth that explosives brought the towers down.its just the NET people wont admit it cause their paid agents obviously.Internet people are a waste of time to discuss it with,they have no interest in the truth.disinfo agents NEVER have interest in the truth on this matter.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

also forgot to mention that 7 of the worlds best scientists in the world studied samples they later came across years later of samples found where they found evidence of nano thermate in their dust samples which is further evidence explosives were used.not to mention idiots like agents Gam,Fizz and Gomer Pyke Ollie cant get around is that there are hundreds of architects and engineers who say explosives brought the towers down,but demolition experts as well that you have shown videos of these experts talking before Terral which they did not watch the videos of course since they have no interest in the truth,the readers here at USMB.

How do you post for a year and a half and have a minus rep? Christ I piss off everybody and can't go backwards like that!

People...especially americans do not want to know any "truth" that implies they are not the best and most revered creatures in existance. You are clearly wasting your time. If it didn't happen on Fox tv..it didn't happen.

Because he keeps posting the same made up BS and refuses to listen to logic. But I haven't neg reped him, yet.

yep thats what you do as we both know,you post made up B.S and refuse to listen to logic.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

How do you post for a year and a half and have a minus rep? Christ I piss off everybody and can't go backwards like that!

People...especially americans do not want to know any "truth" that implies they are not the best and most revered creatures in existance. You are clearly wasting your time. If it didn't happen on Fox tv..it didn't happen.

guess thats what happens when they hear the facts they cant refute when the truth hurts them. so true,their mindset is if fox tv says so,then it must be true. yeah I know their a waste of time,thats why I dont understand why you guys bother with them.I dont anymore.Its so obvious they are agents.People I show the DVD's to in real life,hardly anyone doesnt come around and say to me-wow,explosives DID bring those towers down.It was an inside job.where its only the NET people who refuse to listen to what archtiects,engineers,and witnesses say.pretty obvious I would say.

You must know some real losers. I deal with people from all walks of life and don't know one person outside of conspiracy boards that believe there was any explosives involved or that our government had anything to do with it.

considering how you have been caught lying COUNTLESS number of times and ignore evidence of architects,enginners,scientists and demolition experts PROVING you have no interest in the truth whatsoever that explosives brought the towers down and do nothing but lie all the time constantly,no reason to believe this isnt another one of your made up pathetic lies Gomer Pyle.. as we both know you have never disproven the facts me,terral and eots have shown you that explosives brought the towers down due to explosives through witness testimonys,experts,scientists and demolition experts.all YOUI have shown is the BULLSHIT governments version loser.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Here is just one video that also proves explosives brought the towers down that they have never been able to debunk.as you can see from the video,they talk about what I mentioned before where the firemen are on tape saying-the fires should be put out soon.

9/11 Firefighters say Explosives brought down Twin Towers Video by Harry - MySpace Video

There were hundreds if not thousands of things that would explode in those buildings. You still haven't explained how tons of synchronized explosives could have been planted without anyone getting suspicious or talking about it. And you cannot explain how after they were planted that they would still work after the planes slammed into the buildings and screwed up all the carefully planned wiring.

Oh BTW nice how your video jumps all over the time and space thing like that.

 

[creativedreams]

Oh BTW nice how your video jumps all over the time and space thing like that.

Here, let me slow it down for you. Listen and learn....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nc5_5IJek8[/ame]

 

[Gamolon]

The expansion joints you refer to in pipe has more to do with what is in the pipes such as water that can freeze causing preasures from within that can burst the pipe if not accounted for.

Holy shit!!!!

If you're going to try and sound intelligent about things you know nothing about, please go read about them first.

Expansion joints in piping have nothing to do with "freezing water" and "bursting pipes".

Expansion joints and loops are put into pipe runs to allow for the "lengthening of the pipe runs when they lengthen and shorten due to heat. That's why they install them within the pipe runs. Here are some diagrams and pictures to try and help you to understand.

Expansion joints are used for bursting pipes... Good grief man!!!!



Here's an expansion loop used to accomodate the pipe runs LENGTHENING.

Exapansion loop formula and how to position supports.

Here's an expansion joint installed in a pipe run.