Trump's Tax Plan

[candycorn]

I'm in favor of first building the wall as a national security measure. Secondly, when it is built, you issue a nationwide ID card that allows you to buy utilities, get a PO box, credit, etc.... You issue these to any and all who apply and pass an exhaustive background check. This itself will take years. Finally, as a third step, you get rid of sanctuary cities and other havens. they are by definition illegal.

Papers! Papers, please!

Well, in fairness; I never said that. The Idea of the ID card is to expose patterns. For example, if John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA but another card # that belongs to Jane Doe who lives in Montana is used to buy utilities for that address....you send an investigator by.

Another example. If John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA and the same number or the number of his wife is used to pay for utilities...you don't send an investigator by.

Other examples; If you see a number of someone who never had permanent residency in the US one day show up at a flight school in Florida and the guy was born in Yemen...perhaps you send a few investigators by.

I see what you're saying and abuse can (and will) happen. Its a given. I happen to think the positives outweigh the negatives.

They won't even do that for us. Why? Because identity theft protection is a racket.

Yeah...this is what I'm talking about.

Immigration polls at 3% normally. National Security is the "prize" for building a wall and cracking down on those who should not be here. I'm not worried about your gardener being illegal. I'm not worried about your nanny being illegal. I'm not worried about my dry cleaner having 50 illegals as long as my clothes come back clean. If they were not there, there would be 50 legal citizens; the price would skyrocket, and I'd probably go somewhere else cheaper. If there were no other place cheaper, I'd stick with who was closest (much like I do now).

I'm worried about guys shooting up malls, theaters, blowing up dams, hotels, etc...

Make National Security a priority. The wall (on both borders) is part of it. Simply because it limits the payload one brings with them from across the border. Then the ID card helps weed out internal threats. You then get rid of blatantly stupid policies such as sanctuary cities and officials who "look the other way". If you break the law, you need to be punished. Illegal immigration is against the law. If you don't break the law and are here illegally, I don't see the benefit of raiding someone's house and getting rid of a nanny who has "only" broken immigration laws. Hell, if anything, if they have been here X number of years, lived peacefully, and not done anything other than been here illegally....this is the type of person I think should be moved to the front of the line as a citizen. Likely there is just as good a chance she'll be a positive to the society as the person who is taking the oath today.

 

[candycorn]

My bad.

Treasury instruments:

"The largest portion of U.S. debt, 68 cents for every dollar or about $10 trillion, is owned by individual investors, corporations, state and local governments and, yes, even foreign governments such as China that hold Treasury bills, notes and bonds."

which they could sell soon after Trump raises tariffs

Yes it's true. Breaking bad agreements could cause some pain. If you don't pay a loanshark they might break your legs.

What should we do then?

I'm in favor of first building the wall as a national security measure. Secondly, when it is built, you issue a nationwide ID card that allows you to buy utilities, get a PO box, credit, etc.... You issue these to any and all who apply and pass an exhaustive background check. This itself will take years. Finally, as a third step, you get rid of sanctuary cities and other havens. they are by definition illegal.

As non us citizen do they continue to keep wages low?

Not sure who you're talking about. I doubt that you'll see wages appreciably raise regardless of who does the labor.

In the 90s jobs were plentiful. Taco bell had to pay $10 hr to get anyone to work there.

Flood the market with lots of low skilled illegal low pay workers and problem solved, for employers and illegal workers, not America.

Link? I was working my way through college at the time. Target paid $8.20 an hour. The public health entity I worked for paid less than than for the WIC program. I'm sure in some areas, wages were higher. I doubt that was the rule though.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm in favor of first building the wall as a national security measure. Secondly, when it is built, you issue a nationwide ID card that allows you to buy utilities, get a PO box, credit, etc.... You issue these to any and all who apply and pass an exhaustive background check. This itself will take years. Finally, as a third step, you get rid of sanctuary cities and other havens. they are by definition illegal.

Papers! Papers, please!

Well, in fairness; I never said that. The Idea of the ID card is to expose patterns. For example, if John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA but another card # that belongs to Jane Doe who lives in Montana is used to buy utilities for that address....you send an investigator by.

Another example. If John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA and the same number or the number of his wife is used to pay for utilities...you don't send an investigator by.

Other examples; If you see a number of someone who never had permanent residency in the US one day show up at a flight school in Florida and the guy was born in Yemen...perhaps you send a few investigators by.

I see what you're saying and abuse can (and will) happen. Its a given. I happen to think the positives outweigh the negatives.

holy crud! you WANT the NSA to do random sweeps on us Americans?

SORRY, till my last dying breath Sealy, I wont let you institute the Gestapo.

We've done it before and should still be doing it. What's wrong if a town contacts the NSA and says they suspect a factory is hiring illegals? What's wrong with the NSA raiding that factory? They do it in every country and no one defends the illegal employers except here.

 

[candycorn]

I'm in favor of first building the wall as a national security measure. Secondly, when it is built, you issue a nationwide ID card that allows you to buy utilities, get a PO box, credit, etc.... You issue these to any and all who apply and pass an exhaustive background check. This itself will take years. Finally, as a third step, you get rid of sanctuary cities and other havens. they are by definition illegal.

Papers! Papers, please!

Well, in fairness; I never said that. The Idea of the ID card is to expose patterns. For example, if John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA but another card # that belongs to Jane Doe who lives in Montana is used to buy utilities for that address....you send an investigator by.

Another example. If John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA and the same number or the number of his wife is used to pay for utilities...you don't send an investigator by.

Other examples; If you see a number of someone who never had permanent residency in the US one day show up at a flight school in Florida and the guy was born in Yemen...perhaps you send a few investigators by.

I see what you're saying and abuse can (and will) happen. Its a given. I happen to think the positives outweigh the negatives.

holy crud! you WANT the NSA to do random sweeps on us Americans?

SORRY, till my last dying breath Sealy, I wont let you institute the Gestapo.

Gee, yeah the NSA wouldn't do anything like that such as collecting phone records and the like. PS: They have been doing this for about 10 years now. The result? Cell phones are more prominent than ever and few, if anyone, is really concerned about it.


Again, I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

The "rubber hits the road" where the investigators are--these will be local actors; city and county police departments. I'm sure in some localities, you'll have no-knock warrants issued. In others, you'll have passive surveillance performed. In most cases you'l find nothing. In some cases, you'll see that Mr. Doe has a daughter he didn't tell his wife about from a previous marriage/affair that he has set up.

The point is to expose patterns that set off alarms. The old "connect the dots" problem we had before 9/11. This helps connect the dots. Will it prevent terrorism? Hardly. Will it prevent some terrorism? Yes. You'll also see it helping reduce organized crime since it won't be so easy to have portable wealth.

 

[g5000]

I'm in favor of first building the wall as a national security measure. Secondly, when it is built, you issue a nationwide ID card that allows you to buy utilities, get a PO box, credit, etc.... You issue these to any and all who apply and pass an exhaustive background check. This itself will take years. Finally, as a third step, you get rid of sanctuary cities and other havens. they are by definition illegal.

Papers! Papers, please!

Well, in fairness; I never said that.

Yes you most certainly did.

Watch:

The Idea of the ID card is to expose patterns. For example, if John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA but another card # that belongs to Jane Doe who lives in Montana is used to buy utilities for that address....you send an investigator by.

See? The purpose of national identity papers is to monitor and control the movements of the population! You're a good little totalitarian and don't even realize it.

Papers! Papers, please!

 

[candycorn]

I'm in favor of first building the wall as a national security measure. Secondly, when it is built, you issue a nationwide ID card that allows you to buy utilities, get a PO box, credit, etc.... You issue these to any and all who apply and pass an exhaustive background check. This itself will take years. Finally, as a third step, you get rid of sanctuary cities and other havens. they are by definition illegal.

Papers! Papers, please!

Well, in fairness; I never said that.

Yes you most certainly did.

Watch:

The Idea of the ID card is to expose patterns. For example, if John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA but another card # that belongs to Jane Doe who lives in Montana is used to buy utilities for that address....you send an investigator by.

See? The purpose of national identity papers is to control the movements of the population! You're a good little Nazi and don't even realize it.

Papers! Papers, please!

Actually, you have a guy in the picture being stopped in the street. By an armed member of the military no less. I didn't prescribe that. I said you send an investigator by. Again, in some jurisdictions, that will mean a no-knock raid. In others, it will mean passive surveillance.

Again, I don't doubt there will be severe abuses of authority. We see that today.

I think it is better to watch a suspected address and ascertain what is happening best you can. If you see suspicious activity, you get a search warrant.

Again, I see what you're saying. And again, I think the benefits outweigh the negatives.

 

[Care4all]

I'm in favor of first building the wall as a national security measure. Secondly, when it is built, you issue a nationwide ID card that allows you to buy utilities, get a PO box, credit, etc.... You issue these to any and all who apply and pass an exhaustive background check. This itself will take years. Finally, as a third step, you get rid of sanctuary cities and other havens. they are by definition illegal.

Papers! Papers, please!

Well, in fairness; I never said that. The Idea of the ID card is to expose patterns. For example, if John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA but another card # that belongs to Jane Doe who lives in Montana is used to buy utilities for that address....you send an investigator by.

Another example. If John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA and the same number or the number of his wife is used to pay for utilities...you don't send an investigator by.

Other examples; If you see a number of someone who never had permanent residency in the US one day show up at a flight school in Florida and the guy was born in Yemen...perhaps you send a few investigators by.

I see what you're saying and abuse can (and will) happen. Its a given. I happen to think the positives outweigh the negatives.

holy crud! you WANT the NSA to do random sweeps on us Americans?

SORRY, till my last dying breath Sealy, I wont let you institute the Gestapo.

We've done it before and should still be doing it. What's wrong if a town contacts the NSA and says they suspect a factory is hiring illegals? What's wrong with the NSA raiding that factory? They do it in every country and no one defends the illegal employers except here.

Nothing is wrong with that scenario, (other than the NSA would never be the agency the town contacts)

and that is not a random sweep?

 

[sealybobo]

Yes it's true. Breaking bad agreements could cause some pain. If you don't pay a loanshark they might break your legs.

What should we do then?

I'm in favor of first building the wall as a national security measure. Secondly, when it is built, you issue a nationwide ID card that allows you to buy utilities, get a PO box, credit, etc.... You issue these to any and all who apply and pass an exhaustive background check. This itself will take years. Finally, as a third step, you get rid of sanctuary cities and other havens. they are by definition illegal.

As non us citizen do they continue to keep wages low?

Not sure who you're talking about. I doubt that you'll see wages appreciably raise regardless of who does the labor.

In the 90s jobs were plentiful. Taco bell had to pay $10 hr to get anyone to work there.

Flood the market with lots of low skilled illegal low pay workers and problem solved, for employers and illegal workers, not America.

Link? I was working my way through college at the time. Target paid $8.20 an hour. The public health entity I worked for paid less than than for the WIC program. I'm sure in some areas, wages were higher. I doubt that was the rule though.

The taco bell in novi,mi had a help wanted sign $10 hr. Sorry I didn't take a pic and put it on YouTube.

I also remember salespeople getting a $10k raise at the company i worked for so they wouldn't leave. I was already 100% commission making $85k and 40 other salespeople were making 6 figures back then. Companies were looking for things to spend money on. I sold computer training. Today 4 people make 6 figures at that company. The 90s were amazing.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm in favor of first building the wall as a national security measure. Secondly, when it is built, you issue a nationwide ID card that allows you to buy utilities, get a PO box, credit, etc.... You issue these to any and all who apply and pass an exhaustive background check. This itself will take years. Finally, as a third step, you get rid of sanctuary cities and other havens. they are by definition illegal.

Papers! Papers, please!

Well, in fairness; I never said that. The Idea of the ID card is to expose patterns. For example, if John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA but another card # that belongs to Jane Doe who lives in Montana is used to buy utilities for that address....you send an investigator by.

Another example. If John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA and the same number or the number of his wife is used to pay for utilities...you don't send an investigator by.

Other examples; If you see a number of someone who never had permanent residency in the US one day show up at a flight school in Florida and the guy was born in Yemen...perhaps you send a few investigators by.

I see what you're saying and abuse can (and will) happen. Its a given. I happen to think the positives outweigh the negatives.

holy crud! you WANT the NSA to do random sweeps on us Americans?

SORRY, till my last dying breath Sealy, I wont let you institute the Gestapo.

We've done it before and should still be doing it. What's wrong if a town contacts the NSA and says they suspect a factory is hiring illegals? What's wrong with the NSA raiding that factory? They do it in every country and no one defends the illegal employers except here.

Nothing is wrong with that scenario, (other than the NSA would never be the agency the town contacts)

and that is not a random sweep?

That wasn't me, I think.

 

[g5000]

I'm in favor of first building the wall as a national security measure. Secondly, when it is built, you issue a nationwide ID card that allows you to buy utilities, get a PO box, credit, etc.... You issue these to any and all who apply and pass an exhaustive background check. This itself will take years. Finally, as a third step, you get rid of sanctuary cities and other havens. they are by definition illegal.

Papers! Papers, please!

Well, in fairness; I never said that. The Idea of the ID card is to expose patterns. For example, if John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA but another card # that belongs to Jane Doe who lives in Montana is used to buy utilities for that address....you send an investigator by.

Another example. If John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA and the same number or the number of his wife is used to pay for utilities...you don't send an investigator by.

Other examples; If you see a number of someone who never had permanent residency in the US one day show up at a flight school in Florida and the guy was born in Yemen...perhaps you send a few investigators by.

I see what you're saying and abuse can (and will) happen. Its a given. I happen to think the positives outweigh the negatives.

holy crud! you WANT the NSA to do random sweeps on us Americans?

SORRY, till my last dying breath Sealy, I wont let you institute the Gestapo.

We've done it before and should still be doing it. What's wrong if a town contacts the NSA and says they suspect a factory is hiring illegals? What's wrong with the NSA raiding that factory? They do it in every country and no one defends the illegal employers except here.

It is precisely your fears which are being exploited to open the door to the total control of the entire population.

Papers! Papers, please!

 

[sealybobo]

I'm in favor of first building the wall as a national security measure. Secondly, when it is built, you issue a nationwide ID card that allows you to buy utilities, get a PO box, credit, etc.... You issue these to any and all who apply and pass an exhaustive background check. This itself will take years. Finally, as a third step, you get rid of sanctuary cities and other havens. they are by definition illegal.

Papers! Papers, please!

Well, in fairness; I never said that. The Idea of the ID card is to expose patterns. For example, if John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA but another card # that belongs to Jane Doe who lives in Montana is used to buy utilities for that address....you send an investigator by.

Another example. If John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA and the same number or the number of his wife is used to pay for utilities...you don't send an investigator by.

Other examples; If you see a number of someone who never had permanent residency in the US one day show up at a flight school in Florida and the guy was born in Yemen...perhaps you send a few investigators by.

I see what you're saying and abuse can (and will) happen. Its a given. I happen to think the positives outweigh the negatives.

holy crud! you WANT the NSA to do random sweeps on us Americans?

SORRY, till my last dying breath Sealy, I wont let you institute the Gestapo.

That was candycorn

 

[Care4all]

I'm in favor of first building the wall as a national security measure. Secondly, when it is built, you issue a nationwide ID card that allows you to buy utilities, get a PO box, credit, etc.... You issue these to any and all who apply and pass an exhaustive background check. This itself will take years. Finally, as a third step, you get rid of sanctuary cities and other havens. they are by definition illegal.

Papers! Papers, please!

Well, in fairness; I never said that. The Idea of the ID card is to expose patterns. For example, if John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA but another card # that belongs to Jane Doe who lives in Montana is used to buy utilities for that address....you send an investigator by.

Another example. If John Doe lives in Missouri and the NSA on a sweep sees that his ID# is used to rent a house in San Diego, CA and the same number or the number of his wife is used to pay for utilities...you don't send an investigator by.

Other examples; If you see a number of someone who never had permanent residency in the US one day show up at a flight school in Florida and the guy was born in Yemen...perhaps you send a few investigators by.

I see what you're saying and abuse can (and will) happen. Its a given. I happen to think the positives outweigh the negatives.

holy crud! you WANT the NSA to do random sweeps on us Americans?

SORRY, till my last dying breath Sealy, I wont let you institute the Gestapo.

That was candycorn

yah, I saw afterwards, my bad, however you agreed to it, in a way, didn't you? If not, then I haven't had enough coffee yet, and need a coffee break!

 

[SwimExpert]

Not sure who you're talking about. I doubt that you'll see wages appreciably raise regardless of who does the labor.

That's because you view life in terms of your own sense of victimhood.

 

[SwimExpert]

Damn right I want you to pay for my SS.

I paid for other people for 40+ years while I was working so it's my turn now.

That's your fault.

And you will get your turn if your fellow co-conspirators don't kill SS

The only one killing SS is you. Your generation is the ones who expanded it for yourself, while setting up our generations to deal with it going bankrupt.

so the Wall Street Thieves Guild can steal your money.

The Wall Street "thieves" can take the money I pay in SS taxes and give me ten times the return. You call that stealing? Man, you're a lunatic.

And with the attitude I see from you in messages --- yep, you're a Certified Rectum.

Thank goodness. If a loser like you thought highly of me, I'd be offended.

 

[dcraelin]

I dont know.....hes a puzzle.....its better rhetoric anyway then almost everyone but Sanders.

I'm either voting Sanders or trump. Anyone else would be status quo. Let's Greece this son of a bitch.

Well Im not sure what you mean by lets Greece this son of a bitch......I think that thats where were heading to if we DONT choose someone out of the mainstream.

If Bush and Clinton wind up on top....Im voting 3rd party

Dcraelin made a great case for Clinton.

The only reason you don't like Clinton is you're a Republican.

I have to admit, hillary seems untrustworthy to me. I'm not even immune to the corporate medias brainwashing. Thanks for keeping it real dcraelin. I may not love everything about the Clinton's but at least they aren't full blown Republicans.

1) I'm not a republican 2) I made a great case for Clinton?how? because I like Sanders?

Bill Clinton didn't do a bad job.

gave us NAFTA...... bellicosity overseas, got lucky with a tech bubble for the economy .....didnt cut taxes, that was a good thing I guess.

 

[SwimExpert]

So, what you're saying is that Japan, China, the UK, Germany, France etc bought our debt out of the goodness of their heart and they can never cash in the Treasury notes they bought?

No, I said you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

T-bills can't be redeemed on demand. They have a specified maturation date, no greater than six months. When someone buys a Treasury Bill, they have only two options: 1) Wait for it to mature to collect the matured amount, or 2) Sell it to someone else, who will collect the matured amount. Now, the moment that those puppies mature, you can bet your bottom dollar that China et al are redeeming them. They don't let them just sit and serve as an interest free cash loan to the US. As you point out, they're not buying them out of the goodness of their hearts.

So, your contention is absolutely bogus. Even if China were sitting on $1 trillion of T-bills at any given moment, they could not simply redeem them on a moment's notice just to engage in a tit-for-tat over tariffs.

Furthermore, the contention that they would change their investment behaviors in order to engage in a tit-for-tat over tariffs is itself ridiculous on its face. Again, I point out your own contention that they do not engage in these investment behaviors out of the goodness of their hearts. These are investment decisions, and they are made for the sole purpose of enhancing their own welfare and wealth. Investing in US debt is an exceptionally solid and safe investment, with a very strong return potential. When you can get an 8% APR with virtually zero risk involved, I dare anyone to back away from that.

 

[Care4all]

trumps tax plan is a pipe dream.

FACT CHECK: Math in Trump's tax plan doesn't always add up - Business Insider

 

[candycorn]

So, what you're saying is that Japan, China, the UK, Germany, France etc bought our debt out of the goodness of their heart and they can never cash in the Treasury notes they bought?

No, I said you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

T-bills can't be redeemed on demand. They have a specified maturation date, no greater than six months. When someone buys a Treasury Bill, they have only two options: 1) Wait for it to mature to collect the matured amount, or 2) Sell it to someone else, who will collect the matured amount. Now, the moment that those puppies mature, you can bet your bottom dollar that China et al are redeeming them. They don't let them just sit and serve as an interest free cash loan to the US. As you point out, they're not buying them out of the goodness of their hearts.

So, your contention is absolutely bogus. Even if China were sitting on $1 trillion of T-bills at any given moment, they could not simply redeem them on a moment's notice just to engage in a tit-for-tat over tariffs.

Furthermore, the contention that they would change their investment behaviors in order to engage in a tit-for-tat over tariffs is itself ridiculous on its face. Again, I point out your own contention that they do not engage in these investment behaviors out of the goodness of their hearts. These are investment decisions, and they are made for the sole purpose of enhancing their own welfare and wealth. Investing in US debt is an exceptionally solid and safe investment, with a very strong return potential. When you can get an 8% APR with virtually zero risk involved, I dare anyone to back away from that.

So, the Chinese will simply let us slap a tariff on their imports, and do nothing. Nice of them.

Meanwhile back in the real world, they will use every tool in their arsenal to keep the trade balance favorable for themselves. I know they will threaten it at the very least. Given our market-based economy and that the stock market rises or falls based on confidence/worry as much as any other factor...how far do you think the market would drop if China threatened to stop sponsoring our debt (or Japan or India or X Country)?

We saw what happened last week when there were whiffs of recession in China. Can't wait until they start playing hardball.

This is the immaturity of the Trump position coupled with the idiocy of the Trump supporters. Don't you think that our leaders would have done this by now if they could have done it in a worry free, cost free, way?

Thomas Friedman wrote about it in The Lexus and the Olive Tree. And it isn't only currency at stake that would lead to inflation and our interest rates rising. I doubt if we start placing tariffs on Japan, they'll be okay with our military bases remaining there.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm either voting Sanders or trump. Anyone else would be status quo. Let's Greece this son of a bitch.

Well Im not sure what you mean by lets Greece this son of a bitch......I think that thats where were heading to if we DONT choose someone out of the mainstream.

If Bush and Clinton wind up on top....Im voting 3rd party

Dcraelin made a great case for Clinton.

The only reason you don't like Clinton is you're a Republican.

I have to admit, hillary seems untrustworthy to me. I'm not even immune to the corporate medias brainwashing. Thanks for keeping it real dcraelin. I may not love everything about the Clinton's but at least they aren't full blown Republicans.

1) I'm not a republican 2) I made a great case for Clinton?how? because I like Sanders?

Bill Clinton didn't do a bad job.

gave us NAFTA...... bellicosity overseas, got lucky with a tech bubble for the economy .....didnt cut taxes, that was a good thing I guess.

You cut taxes after all the bills are paid, not before.

Bush cut taxes to get us out of a recession and it only put us more in debt.

 

[sealybobo]

If you all don't like trumps plan or Bernie's, who do you like?