Trump brilliant on 60 minutes. Why i will vote for him

[JimBowie1958]

Sorry I'm not in the habit of listening to blithering idiots like you. Where the hell do you think tax dollars come from, government takes money from the people who earned it and they move the money around they don't create any net new wealth or jobs. Good grief.

So when the government collects taxes and uses that money to buy fighter planes for the Air Force, no jobs are being created? And when all those people get paid for building those planes and spend their money, that doesn't create jobs? How about all the suppliers for the company building the planes? You are a blithering idiot who has zero understanding of how the economy works. You actually think giving tax breaks to the super wealthy so they can invest their money overseas is going to create jobs because "the wealthy are the job creators". To understand why our economy ended up in such a mess under Bush, all one need do is listen to you, because your idea about economics is exactly what caused the Great Recession, and to this day cons still want more tax cuts for the wealthy to "help improve the economy".

You're forgetting all the jobs that were destroyed because government taxed away the money that taxpayers would have spent themselves. That's how liberal propaganda works. They say "look at this shiny object over here. Don't look there."

These liberals are dumb as a brick. Highest corporate tax rate in the world and they sit there dumbfounded why jobs are fleeing the US. Unwilling to admit they are stupid morons instead they blame and demonize corporations and the 'rich'. No its not the thousands of jobs killing regulations they pass or the insane amount of government red tape and hoops or the high taxes or government standing there with their hand out at the federal, state, and local level, its not the bloated government or the government waste, its not lawyers bullshit lawsuits, no its that rich people are greedy. For fucks sake libs.

Too funny. Now you're calling yoursel a blithering idiot. You're so retarded, you're actually arguing with yourself. Earlier, you said government can't create jobs. Now you're claiming if government eases restrictions, jobs get created here.



You cons crack me up!

Apparently you flunked reading comprehension, I imagine its a bizarre world you live in so handicapped.

Libtards read and retain only what they want to. They are why we have to have tags on pillows so they don't eat them.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The Republican Congress proved you wrong. They do whatever Obama wants them to do.

Not true.
If Republicans in congress gave Obama what he wanted, congress would not be setting records for the least number of bills sent to the president for signature.[/QUOTE]

Giving Obama what he wants is not what the GOP majority in both houses of Congress were elected to do. They are supposed to be the loyal opposition, but they don't know how to oppose, but only play fight as if they opposed.

 

[BluesLegend]

So when the government collects taxes and uses that money to buy fighter planes for the Air Force, no jobs are being created? And when all those people get paid for building those planes and spend their money, that doesn't create jobs? How about all the suppliers for the company building the planes? You are a blithering idiot who has zero understanding of how the economy works. You actually think giving tax breaks to the super wealthy so they can invest their money overseas is going to create jobs because "the wealthy are the job creators". To understand why our economy ended up in such a mess under Bush, all one need do is listen to you, because your idea about economics is exactly what caused the Great Recession, and to this day cons still want more tax cuts for the wealthy to "help improve the economy".

You're forgetting all the jobs that were destroyed because government taxed away the money that taxpayers would have spent themselves. That's how liberal propaganda works. They say "look at this shiny object over here. Don't look there."

These liberals are dumb as a brick. Highest corporate tax rate in the world and they sit there dumbfounded why jobs are fleeing the US. Unwilling to admit they are stupid morons instead they blame and demonize corporations and the 'rich'. No its not the thousands of jobs killing regulations they pass or the insane amount of government red tape and hoops or the high taxes or government standing there with their hand out at the federal, state, and local level, its not the bloated government or the government waste, its not lawyers bullshit lawsuits, no its that rich people are greedy. For fucks sake libs.

Too funny. Now you're calling yoursel a blithering idiot. You're so retarded, you're actually arguing with yourself. Earlier, you said government can't create jobs. Now you're claiming if government eases restrictions, jobs get created here.



You cons crack me up!

Apparently you flunked reading comprehension, I imagine its a bizarre world you live in so handicapped.

Spits the imbecile who says government can produce jobs after saying government can't produce jobs.

That's not what I said idiot, I don't know maybe gene therapy can help you.

 

[BluesLegend]

So when the government collects taxes and uses that money to buy fighter planes for the Air Force, no jobs are being created? And when all those people get paid for building those planes and spend their money, that doesn't create jobs? How about all the suppliers for the company building the planes? You are a blithering idiot who has zero understanding of how the economy works. You actually think giving tax breaks to the super wealthy so they can invest their money overseas is going to create jobs because "the wealthy are the job creators". To understand why our economy ended up in such a mess under Bush, all one need do is listen to you, because your idea about economics is exactly what caused the Great Recession, and to this day cons still want more tax cuts for the wealthy to "help improve the economy".

You're forgetting all the jobs that were destroyed because government taxed away the money that taxpayers would have spent themselves. That's how liberal propaganda works. They say "look at this shiny object over here. Don't look there."

These liberals are dumb as a brick. Highest corporate tax rate in the world and they sit there dumbfounded why jobs are fleeing the US. Unwilling to admit they are stupid morons instead they blame and demonize corporations and the 'rich'. No its not the thousands of jobs killing regulations they pass or the insane amount of government red tape and hoops or the high taxes or government standing there with their hand out at the federal, state, and local level, its not the bloated government or the government waste, its not lawyers bullshit lawsuits, no its that rich people are greedy. For fucks sake libs.

Too funny. Now you're calling yoursel a blithering idiot. You're so retarded, you're actually arguing with yourself. Earlier, you said government can't create jobs. Now you're claiming if government eases restrictions, jobs get created here.



You cons crack me up!

Apparently you flunked reading comprehension, I imagine its a bizarre world you live in so handicapped.

Libtards read and retain only what they want to. They are why we have to have tags on pillows so they don't eat them.

LOL I think its a genetic flaw, no amount of facts or reason can penetrate the 4 inches of their Neanderthal skulls.

 

[bripat9643]

That is what they said about him when he entered, that he would never be in the lead and would never poll more than a few percentage points.

Bullshit.

I suspect he will be pressured out of the race though because the establishment will dig up some kind of dirt on him, like violating some laws on zoning, building codes, whatever and put him under indictment and kill his campaign with the DA's office.

No one has to dig up the dirt. It pours out of his mouth. What you see is what you get with Trump, an amateur politician, who has little or no knowledge of how government functions, and even less knowledge of foreign affairs. He's avoided military service, has no experience in public service, and thinks he can run the government the way he runs his businesses. The fact that anyone thinks Trump has what it takes to be president is a said comment on the state of American politics.

I think we all know how government functions, and it isn't pretty. We need someone who wants to change the way government functions, not someone who is content with business as usual.

The president can propose and influence the function of government but it is congress that really makes the decisions and holds the purse strings. Any major change in function of government must come from congress.

The Republican Congress proved you wrong. They do whatever Obama wants them to do.

Not true.
If Republicans in congress gave Obama what he wanted, congress would not be setting records for the least number of bills sent to the president for signature.

They funded Obamacare, they funded is illegal amnesty scheme. They gave away their treaty approval authority so Obama could sing that disgraceful agreement with Iran. What haven't they given him?

 

[bripat9643]

The president can propose and influence the function of government but it is congress that really makes the decisions and holds the purse strings. Any major change in function of government must come from congress.

But apparently not if the POTUS has a pen and a phone.

Presidents can issue executive orders that are not covered by congressional action. Whether those orders stick is determined by the courts. A number of Obama's executive order were blocked by the courts. Most of the proposals that Trump has made will fail without congressional actions. Lasting changes to the function of government can only be made by congress. All executive orders can be changed or dropped by the next president.

Yes, I understand how it is supposed to work, but Obama has not let that stop him. He has ordered that some criminals are to not be arrested and others shall be hassled without any legal foundation for the action by simply expanding the regulatory over reach of an agency like the EPA.

That the Republicans have let Obama get away with this is bad precedent and fuel for a future constitutional crisis.

Obama has issued less executive orders than either Bush or Clinton. When congress can not act for whatever reason, then the president is the only one that can. His orders are temporary and can be overturned by congress or courts and expire at the end of his term. Some of his most controversial executive orders on healthcare and immigration are the result of lac of action by congress. If congress believes he is overstepping his bounds they can step in just as the courts can.

It's not the number of executive orders that count, it's the quality. And Obama has no authority to do shit if Congress declines to act. You don't understand the slightest thing about the Constitution or the separation of powers. The courts have demonstrated no inclination to get involved in disputes between Congress and the Administration. Going down that course resolves nothing.

 

[Faun]

You're forgetting all the jobs that were destroyed because government taxed away the money that taxpayers would have spent themselves. That's how liberal propaganda works. They say "look at this shiny object over here. Don't look there."

These liberals are dumb as a brick. Highest corporate tax rate in the world and they sit there dumbfounded why jobs are fleeing the US. Unwilling to admit they are stupid morons instead they blame and demonize corporations and the 'rich'. No its not the thousands of jobs killing regulations they pass or the insane amount of government red tape and hoops or the high taxes or government standing there with their hand out at the federal, state, and local level, its not the bloated government or the government waste, its not lawyers bullshit lawsuits, no its that rich people are greedy. For fucks sake libs.

Too funny. Now you're calling yoursel a blithering idiot. You're so retarded, you're actually arguing with yourself. Earlier, you said government can't create jobs. Now you're claiming if government eases restrictions, jobs get created here.



You cons crack me up!

Apparently you flunked reading comprehension, I imagine its a bizarre world you live in so handicapped.

Spits the imbecile who says government can produce jobs after saying government can't produce jobs.

That's not what I said idiot, I don't know maybe gene therapy can help you.

You don't know what you said.

 

[jasonnfree]

The president can propose and influence the function of government but it is congress that really makes the decisions and holds the purse strings. Any major change in function of government must come from congress.

But apparently not if the POTUS has a pen and a phone.

Presidents can issue executive orders that are not covered by congressional action. Whether those orders stick is determined by the courts. A number of Obama's executive order were blocked by the courts. Most of the proposals that Trump has made will fail without congressional actions. Lasting changes to the function of government can only be made by congress. All executive orders can be changed or dropped by the next president.

Yes, I understand how it is supposed to work, but Obama has not let that stop him. He has ordered that some criminals are to not be arrested and others shall be hassled without any legal foundation for the action by simply expanding the regulatory over reach of an agency like the EPA.

That the Republicans have let Obama get away with this is bad precedent and fuel for a future constitutional crisis.

Obama has issued less executive orders than either Bush or Clinton. When congress can not act for whatever reason, then the president is the only one that can. His orders are temporary and can be overturned by congress or courts and expire at the end of his term. Some of his most controversial executive orders on healthcare and immigration are the result of lac of action by congress. If congress believes he is overstepping his bounds they can step in just as the courts can.

It's not the number of executive orders that count, it's the quality. And Obama has no authority to do shit if Congress declines to act. You don't understand the slightest thing about the Constitution or the separation of powers. The courts have demonstrated no inclination to get involved in disputes between Congress and the Administration. Going down that course resolves nothing.

If you are a conservative, then you should be thankful that we have Obama as president. He's really working for the corporate class you know. The constitution? A scrap of paper to be interpreted by the supremes, who's judges are all corporate lawyers. Citizen's united ruling should be the clue to that

 

[bripat9643]

But apparently not if the POTUS has a pen and a phone.

Presidents can issue executive orders that are not covered by congressional action. Whether those orders stick is determined by the courts. A number of Obama's executive order were blocked by the courts. Most of the proposals that Trump has made will fail without congressional actions. Lasting changes to the function of government can only be made by congress. All executive orders can be changed or dropped by the next president.

Yes, I understand how it is supposed to work, but Obama has not let that stop him. He has ordered that some criminals are to not be arrested and others shall be hassled without any legal foundation for the action by simply expanding the regulatory over reach of an agency like the EPA.

That the Republicans have let Obama get away with this is bad precedent and fuel for a future constitutional crisis.

Obama has issued less executive orders than either Bush or Clinton. When congress can not act for whatever reason, then the president is the only one that can. His orders are temporary and can be overturned by congress or courts and expire at the end of his term. Some of his most controversial executive orders on healthcare and immigration are the result of lac of action by congress. If congress believes he is overstepping his bounds they can step in just as the courts can.

It's not the number of executive orders that count, it's the quality. And Obama has no authority to do shit if Congress declines to act. You don't understand the slightest thing about the Constitution or the separation of powers. The courts have demonstrated no inclination to get involved in disputes between Congress and the Administration. Going down that course resolves nothing.

If you are a conservative, then you should be thankful that we have Obama as president. He's really working for the corporate class you know. The constitution? A scrap of paper to be interpreted by the supremes, who's judges are all corporate lawyers. Citizen's united ruling should be the clue to that

The idea that Obama is "conservative" doesn't pass the laugh test.

 

[Indeependent]

Presidents can issue executive orders that are not covered by congressional action. Whether those orders stick is determined by the courts. A number of Obama's executive order were blocked by the courts. Most of the proposals that Trump has made will fail without congressional actions. Lasting changes to the function of government can only be made by congress. All executive orders can be changed or dropped by the next president.

Yes, I understand how it is supposed to work, but Obama has not let that stop him. He has ordered that some criminals are to not be arrested and others shall be hassled without any legal foundation for the action by simply expanding the regulatory over reach of an agency like the EPA.

That the Republicans have let Obama get away with this is bad precedent and fuel for a future constitutional crisis.

Obama has issued less executive orders than either Bush or Clinton. When congress can not act for whatever reason, then the president is the only one that can. His orders are temporary and can be overturned by congress or courts and expire at the end of his term. Some of his most controversial executive orders on healthcare and immigration are the result of lac of action by congress. If congress believes he is overstepping his bounds they can step in just as the courts can.

It's not the number of executive orders that count, it's the quality. And Obama has no authority to do shit if Congress declines to act. You don't understand the slightest thing about the Constitution or the separation of powers. The courts have demonstrated no inclination to get involved in disputes between Congress and the Administration. Going down that course resolves nothing.

If you are a conservative, then you should be thankful that we have Obama as president. He's really working for the corporate class you know. The constitution? A scrap of paper to be interpreted by the supremes, who's judges are all corporate lawyers. Citizen's united ruling should be the clue to that

The idea that Obama is "conservative" doesn't pass the laugh test.

Here we are dealing with BritBrainFart who doesn't realize that whoever did NOT pull their money out of the market after the 2008 crash is now close to TWICE as wealthy as they were since BEFORE the 2008 crash.
But what CAN we expect from a BrainFart?

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, I understand how it is supposed to work, but Obama has not let that stop him. He has ordered that some criminals are to not be arrested and others shall be hassled without any legal foundation for the action by simply expanding the regulatory over reach of an agency like the EPA.

That the Republicans have let Obama get away with this is bad precedent and fuel for a future constitutional crisis.

Obama has issued less executive orders than either Bush or Clinton. When congress can not act for whatever reason, then the president is the only one that can. His orders are temporary and can be overturned by congress or courts and expire at the end of his term. Some of his most controversial executive orders on healthcare and immigration are the result of lac of action by congress. If congress believes he is overstepping his bounds they can step in just as the courts can.

It's not the number of executive orders that count, it's the quality. And Obama has no authority to do shit if Congress declines to act. You don't understand the slightest thing about the Constitution or the separation of powers. The courts have demonstrated no inclination to get involved in disputes between Congress and the Administration. Going down that course resolves nothing.

If you are a conservative, then you should be thankful that we have Obama as president. He's really working for the corporate class you know. The constitution? A scrap of paper to be interpreted by the supremes, who's judges are all corporate lawyers. Citizen's united ruling should be the clue to that

The idea that Obama is "conservative" doesn't pass the laugh test.

Here we are dealing with BritBrainFart who doesn't realize that whoever did NOT pull their money out of the market after the 2008 crash is now close to TWICE as wealthy as they were since BEFORE the 2008 crash.
But what CAN we expect from a BrainFart?

How does that prove Obama is conservative?

 

[Flopper]

The Republican Congress proved you wrong. They do whatever Obama wants them to do.

Not true.
If Republicans in congress gave Obama what he wanted, congress would not be setting records for the least number of bills sent to the president for signature.

Giving Obama what he wants is not what the GOP majority in both houses of Congress were elected to do. They are supposed to be the loyal opposition, but they don't know how to oppose, but only play fight as if they opposed.[/QUOTE]
What have they given him? No, they haven't passed the 55th bill to repeal Obamacare and they can't get fellow Republicans to go along with shutting down government over funding planned parenthood. The continuation of fast track authority is a a no brainier. Effectively tying up trade negotiations for next two years is not going to help either Republicans or Democrats and will certainly hurt the US particular in the Pacific Rim.

 

[bripat9643]

Not true.
If Republicans in congress gave Obama what he wanted, congress would not be setting records for the least number of bills sent to the president for signature.

Giving Obama what he wants is not what the GOP majority in both houses of Congress were elected to do. They are supposed to be the loyal opposition, but they don't know how to oppose, but only play fight as if they opposed.

What have they given him? No, they haven't passed the 55th bill to repeal Obamacare and they can't get fellow Republicans to go along with shutting down government over funding planned parenthood. The continuation of fast track authority is a a no brainier. Effectively tying up trade negotiations for next two years is not going to help either Republicans or Democrats and will certainly hurt the US particular in the Pacific Rim.

In short, they gave him everything he wanted. They funded Obamacare, they gave him fast track authority, they threw away their treaty authority so he could sign his disgraceful agreement with Iran, they funded is illegal amnesty.

Name one thing Obama wanted that he didn't get from this Congress.

 

[Flopper]

Not true.
If Republicans in congress gave Obama what he wanted, congress would not be setting records for the least number of bills sent to the president for signature.

Giving Obama what he wants is not what the GOP majority in both houses of Congress were elected to do. They are supposed to be the loyal opposition, but they don't know how to oppose, but only play fight as if they opposed.

What have they given him? No, they haven't passed the 55th bill to repeal Obamacare and they can't get fellow Republicans to go along with shutting down government over funding planned parenthood. The continuation of fast track authority is a a no brainier. Effectively tying up trade negotiations for next two years is not going to help either Republicans or Democrats and will certainly hurt the US particular in the Pacific Rim.

In short, they gave him everything he wanted. They funded Obamacare, they gave him fast track authority, they threw away their treaty authority so he could sign his disgraceful agreement with Iran, they funded is illegal amnesty.

Name one thing Obama wanted that he didn't get from this Congress.

Not a single Republican voted for Obamacare and Republicans shut the government down over funding Obamacare and they voted to repeal it 54 times..

Congress stopped many of the bills Obama wanted passed, Immigration Reform, infrastructure spending, job training bills, environmental protection bills, gun control, climate and energy proposals, minimum wage, etc, etc...

 

[JimBowie1958]

Not true.
If Republicans in congress gave Obama what he wanted, congress would not be setting records for the least number of bills sent to the president for signature.

Giving Obama what he wants is not what the GOP majority in both houses of Congress were elected to do. They are supposed to be the loyal opposition, but they don't know how to oppose, but only play fight as if they opposed.

What have they given him? No, they haven't passed the 55th bill to repeal Obamacare and they can't get fellow Republicans to go along with shutting down government over funding planned parenthood. The continuation of fast track authority is a a no brainier. Effectively tying up trade negotiations for next two years is not going to help either Republicans or Democrats and will certainly hurt the US particular in the Pacific Rim.

In short, they gave him everything he wanted. They funded Obamacare, they gave him fast track authority, they threw away their treaty authority so he could sign his disgraceful agreement with Iran, they funded is illegal amnesty.

Name one thing Obama wanted that he didn't get from this Congress.

Not a single Republican voted for Obamacare and Republicans shut the government down over funding Obamacare and they voted to repeal it 54 times..

Congress stopped many of the bills Obama wanted passed, Immigration Reform, infrastructure spending, job training bills, environmental protection bills, gun control, climate and energy proposals, minimum wage, etc, etc...

OK, the GOP has some value as a door stop, but as far as getting laws passed their constituents wanted...no dice.

And the TPA? For Fucks Sake what they hell were they thinking about other than more pork for them when they get a guy in the White House next time?

 

[Flopper]

Not true.
If Republicans in congress gave Obama what he wanted, congress would not be setting records for the least number of bills sent to the president for signature.

Giving Obama what he wants is not what the GOP majority in both houses of Congress were elected to do. They are supposed to be the loyal opposition, but they don't know how to oppose, but only play fight as if they opposed.

What have they given him? No, they haven't passed the 55th bill to repeal Obamacare and they can't get fellow Republicans to go along with shutting down government over funding planned parenthood. The continuation of fast track authority is a a no brainier. Effectively tying up trade negotiations for next two years is not going to help either Republicans or Democrats and will certainly hurt the US particular in the Pacific Rim.

In short, they gave him everything he wanted. They funded Obamacare, they gave him fast track authority, they threw away their treaty authority so he could sign his disgraceful agreement with Iran, they funded is illegal amnesty.

Name one thing Obama wanted that he didn't get from this Congress.

Not a single Republican voted for Obamacare and Republicans shut the government down over funding Obamacare and they voted to repeal it 54 times..

Congress stopped many of the bills Obama wanted passed, Immigration Reform, infrastructure spending, job training bills, environmental protection bills, gun control, climate and energy proposals, minimum wage, etc, etc...

OK, the GOP has some value as a door stop, but as far as getting laws passed their constituents wanted...no dice.

And the TPA? For Fucks Sake what they hell were they thinking about other than more pork for them when they get a guy in the White House next time?

There isn't a lot Republicans can do except be a door stop with a Democratic president and not enough votes in congress to turn their bills into law. Thus you have a congress that does practically nothing. Democrats will do exactly the same thing with same control of government.

With the degree of polarization in congress, coalitions across party lines are very difficult so major legislation gets pasted when one party has a firm control on government which occurs less than 25% of the time. So congress does little or nothing but jawbone 75% of time. No wonder Americans have such poor opinion of Congress.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Giving Obama what he wants is not what the GOP majority in both houses of Congress were elected to do. They are supposed to be the loyal opposition, but they don't know how to oppose, but only play fight as if they opposed.

What have they given him? No, they haven't passed the 55th bill to repeal Obamacare and they can't get fellow Republicans to go along with shutting down government over funding planned parenthood. The continuation of fast track authority is a a no brainier. Effectively tying up trade negotiations for next two years is not going to help either Republicans or Democrats and will certainly hurt the US particular in the Pacific Rim.

In short, they gave him everything he wanted. They funded Obamacare, they gave him fast track authority, they threw away their treaty authority so he could sign his disgraceful agreement with Iran, they funded is illegal amnesty.

Name one thing Obama wanted that he didn't get from this Congress.

Not a single Republican voted for Obamacare and Republicans shut the government down over funding Obamacare and they voted to repeal it 54 times..

Congress stopped many of the bills Obama wanted passed, Immigration Reform, infrastructure spending, job training bills, environmental protection bills, gun control, climate and energy proposals, minimum wage, etc, etc...

OK, the GOP has some value as a door stop, but as far as getting laws passed their constituents wanted...no dice.

And the TPA? For Fucks Sake what they hell were they thinking about other than more pork for them when they get a guy in the White House next time?

There isn't a lot Republicans can do except be a door stop with a Democratic president and not enough votes in congress to turn their bills into law. Thus you have a congress that does practically nothing. Democrats will do exactly the same thing with same control of government.

With the degree of polarization in congress, coalitions across party lines are very difficult so major legislation gets pasted when one party has a firm control on government which occurs less than 25% of the time. So congress does little or nothing but jawbone 75% of time. No wonder Americans have such poor opinion of Congress.

Oh, I disagree.

People's Evidence, exhibit 1: Tip O'Neil accomplished quite a bit while the Republicans controlled the Senate and the White House. He proved what guts, cunning and determination can accomplish even if the numbers are against you.

2. The Republicans have the power of the purse according to the Constitution. They have every right to defund select programs and have not done it well nor have they led the public to understand their position. IF the GOP would break the bills into smaller pieces, they could put forward all the noncontested programs and wait to the end to push forward the conflicting budgets. This could keep the majority of the government functioning while they engage the White House in a public debate about the defunded/reduced budgets for the selected programs.

IF the WH shuts down the federal government in its entirety, the GOP could then make the case to the American people that they are not shutting down the government but Obama is.

They have failed to do this and it isn't rocket science.

The GOP is giving Obama the strategic ground politically then play fighting a losing battle to mollify their rank and file.

The INTEND to lose most of these battles because they want the programs but don't want to share the blame for them.

 

[Flopper]

What have they given him? No, they haven't passed the 55th bill to repeal Obamacare and they can't get fellow Republicans to go along with shutting down government over funding planned parenthood. The continuation of fast track authority is a a no brainier. Effectively tying up trade negotiations for next two years is not going to help either Republicans or Democrats and will certainly hurt the US particular in the Pacific Rim.

In short, they gave him everything he wanted. They funded Obamacare, they gave him fast track authority, they threw away their treaty authority so he could sign his disgraceful agreement with Iran, they funded is illegal amnesty.

Name one thing Obama wanted that he didn't get from this Congress.

Not a single Republican voted for Obamacare and Republicans shut the government down over funding Obamacare and they voted to repeal it 54 times..

Congress stopped many of the bills Obama wanted passed, Immigration Reform, infrastructure spending, job training bills, environmental protection bills, gun control, climate and energy proposals, minimum wage, etc, etc...

OK, the GOP has some value as a door stop, but as far as getting laws passed their constituents wanted...no dice.

And the TPA? For Fucks Sake what they hell were they thinking about other than more pork for them when they get a guy in the White House next time?

There isn't a lot Republicans can do except be a door stop with a Democratic president and not enough votes in congress to turn their bills into law. Thus you have a congress that does practically nothing. Democrats will do exactly the same thing with same control of government.

With the degree of polarization in congress, coalitions across party lines are very difficult so major legislation gets pasted when one party has a firm control on government which occurs less than 25% of the time. So congress does little or nothing but jawbone 75% of time. No wonder Americans have such poor opinion of Congress.

Oh, I disagree.

People's Evidence, exhibit 1: Tip O'Neil accomplished quite a bit while the Republicans controlled the Senate and the White House. He proved what guts, cunning and determination can accomplish even if the numbers are against you.

2. The Republicans have the power of the purse according to the Constitution. They have every right to defund select programs and have not done it well nor have they led the public to understand their position. IF the GOP would break the bills into smaller pieces, they could put forward all the noncontested programs and wait to the end to push forward the conflicting budgets. This could keep the majority of the government functioning while they engage the White House in a public debate about the defunded/reduced budgets for the selected programs.

IF the WH shuts down the federal government in its entirety, the GOP could then make the case to the American people that they are not shutting down the government but Obama is.

They have failed to do this and it isn't rocket science.

The GOP is giving Obama the strategic ground politically then play fighting a losing battle to mollify their rank and file.

The INTEND to lose most of these battles because they want the programs but don't want to share the blame for them.

Tip O'Neil served in Congress 30 to 40 years ago. Those were the days when coalitions between republicans and democrats were common. Those were also the days when their were liberal republicans and conservative democrats. Today there is little room for negotiations.

Yes, congress can certainly defund programs but the results are often not what you expect. For example, Obamacare is not single program. It is a combination of a number of newly created programs, changes to existing healthcare programs, and expansions of existing healthcare programs. There are eight major components of the Affordable Care Act funded outside of the appropriations process through mandatory spending authority which can only be change by changing the law, not just cut appropriations.

Some of the Obamacare funding is discretionary which can be defuned. However,this funding is scattered among a number a number of programs in number of agencies such as Health and Human Services, the Internal Revenue Service, and the Office of Personnel Management. The funding is not specific for Obamacare and thus intermixed with other funds. Since these agencies have significant other responsibilities beyond implementing the Affordable Care Act defunding would have significant consequences that would have nothing to do with Obamacare.

Planned Parenthood is another good example. Congress could defund planned parenthood. The result would be that the organization would lose 1/3 of it's funds. However, since federal funds can not be used for abortions, cutting the funds would little impact on abortions but would have a major effect on the organization's ability to provide birth control to nearly million women, and the organizations ability to provide 400,000 pap tests, 500,000 breast exams.

The way to do away with legislation is to repeal or replace it but certainly not defunding.

 

[JimBowie1958]

In short, they gave him everything he wanted. They funded Obamacare, they gave him fast track authority, they threw away their treaty authority so he could sign his disgraceful agreement with Iran, they funded is illegal amnesty.

Name one thing Obama wanted that he didn't get from this Congress.

Not a single Republican voted for Obamacare and Republicans shut the government down over funding Obamacare and they voted to repeal it 54 times..

Congress stopped many of the bills Obama wanted passed, Immigration Reform, infrastructure spending, job training bills, environmental protection bills, gun control, climate and energy proposals, minimum wage, etc, etc...

OK, the GOP has some value as a door stop, but as far as getting laws passed their constituents wanted...no dice.

And the TPA? For Fucks Sake what they hell were they thinking about other than more pork for them when they get a guy in the White House next time?

There isn't a lot Republicans can do except be a door stop with a Democratic president and not enough votes in congress to turn their bills into law. Thus you have a congress that does practically nothing. Democrats will do exactly the same thing with same control of government.

With the degree of polarization in congress, coalitions across party lines are very difficult so major legislation gets pasted when one party has a firm control on government which occurs less than 25% of the time. So congress does little or nothing but jawbone 75% of time. No wonder Americans have such poor opinion of Congress.

Oh, I disagree.

People's Evidence, exhibit 1: Tip O'Neil accomplished quite a bit while the Republicans controlled the Senate and the White House. He proved what guts, cunning and determination can accomplish even if the numbers are against you.

2. The Republicans have the power of the purse according to the Constitution. They have every right to defund select programs and have not done it well nor have they led the public to understand their position. IF the GOP would break the bills into smaller pieces, they could put forward all the noncontested programs and wait to the end to push forward the conflicting budgets. This could keep the majority of the government functioning while they engage the White House in a public debate about the defunded/reduced budgets for the selected programs.

IF the WH shuts down the federal government in its entirety, the GOP could then make the case to the American people that they are not shutting down the government but Obama is.

They have failed to do this and it isn't rocket science.

The GOP is giving Obama the strategic ground politically then play fighting a losing battle to mollify their rank and file.

The INTEND to lose most of these battles because they want the programs but don't want to share the blame for them.

Tip O'Neil served in Congress 30 to 40 years ago. Those were the days when coalitions between republicans and democrats were common. Those were also the days when their were liberal republicans and conservative democrats. Today there is little room for negotiations.

Yes, congress can certainly defund programs but the results are often not what you expect. For example, Obamacare is not single program. It is a combination of a number of newly created programs, changes to existing healthcare programs, and expansions of existing healthcare programs. There are eight major components of the Affordable Care Act funded outside of the appropriations process through mandatory spending authority which can only be change by changing the law, not just cut appropriations.

Some of the Obamacare funding is discretionary which can be defuned. However,this funding is scattered among a number a number of programs in number of agencies such as Health and Human Services, the Internal Revenue Service, and the Office of Personnel Management. The funding is not specific for Obamacare and thus intermixed with other funds. Since these agencies have significant other responsibilities beyond implementing the Affordable Care Act defunding would have significant consequences that would have nothing to do with Obamacare.

Planned Parenthood is another good example. Congress could defund planned parenthood. The result would be that the organization would lose 1/3 of it's funds. However, since federal funds can not be used for abortions, cutting the funds would little impact on abortions but would have a major effect on the organization's ability to provide birth control to nearly million women, and the organizations ability to provide 400,000 pap tests, 500,000 breast exams.

The way to do away with legislation is to repeal or replace it but certainly not defunding.

Nah, defunding is an option, why not? Even though the total set of laws are scattered as modifications to a whole bunch of laws, it can still be done by targeting critical pieces of the legislation.

 

[Flopper]

The president can propose and influence the function of government but it is congress that really makes the decisions and holds the purse strings. Any major change in function of government must come from congress.

But apparently not if the POTUS has a pen and a phone.

Presidents can issue executive orders that are not covered by congressional action. Whether those orders stick is determined by the courts. A number of Obama's executive order were blocked by the courts. Most of the proposals that Trump has made will fail without congressional actions. Lasting changes to the function of government can only be made by congress. All executive orders can be changed or dropped by the next president.

Yes, I understand how it is supposed to work, but Obama has not let that stop him. He has ordered that some criminals are to not be arrested and others shall be hassled without any legal foundation for the action by simply expanding the regulatory over reach of an agency like the EPA.

That the Republicans have let Obama get away with this is bad precedent and fuel for a future constitutional crisis.

Obama has issued less executive orders than either Bush or Clinton. When congress can not act for whatever reason, then the president is the only one that can. His orders are temporary and can be overturned by congress or courts and expire at the end of his term. Some of his most controversial executive orders on healthcare and immigration are the result of lac of action by congress. If congress believes he is overstepping his bounds they can step in just as the courts can.

It's not the number of executive orders that count, it's the quality. And Obama has no authority to do shit if Congress declines to act. You don't understand the slightest thing about the Constitution or the separation of powers. The courts have demonstrated no inclination to get involved in disputes between Congress and the Administration. Going down that course resolves nothing.

If Obama does not have the authority, then it's up to either congress or the courts to act. Apparently neither feels he has overstepped his authority because they have not acted. At the end of his term, next year, all the executive orders go away. What do you bet the next president will extend almost all of them that are still applicable.