True conservatives are pro-choice

[JBeukema]

abortion is a social issue and should not be subject to government intervention one way or the other....

if a women wants to kill her unborn child ...and you can find a doctor to do it....go for it....

on the flip side if she wants to have it and the father doesn't...go for it...but don't ask for financial help form the dad....

your body ...your choice...your problem....

I am pro-life. But, as a conservative, I don't have the right to inflict my social beliefs on anyone else.

So homicide should be a strictly personal matter? What about rape? Theft?

 

[manifold]

More ludicrious hyperbole trying to pass for a well reasoned argument.

 

[JBeukema]

JB,

Ludicrious hyperbole is the fallback position of an academic failure.

*points at the OP and its first sentence, which presents a dishonest absolutist statement*

*points at the rest of your posts in this thread, where you assume 'conservatism' means anarchism and total lack of meaningful Law*

S: (n) homicide (the killing of a human being by another human being)

Human being: Human; a member of the species homo sapiens

 

[uscitizen]

I am not pro abortion, just do not believe it is my right to tell others how to live their lives.
Also many of those most against abortion are the most pro for killing people after they are born, even the collateral damage of killing innocent children with bombs and such.
I think of these types a pro post term abortionists.

When is a person a person?

Is a person not a natural US citizen if they are conceived in another country but born here?
Is a pregnant person who has sex guilty of child sexual abuse?
Are they guilty of child abuse if they smoke, drink, etc while pregnant?
Or guilty of corrupting a minor by going into a bar while pregant?

Where does it begin and end?

 

[JBeukema]

abortion is not a complex issue. Either you are for it or basically against it. Most people fall into those two columns.

So one if for or against homicide?

It's that simple? Motive doesn't matter? Medical emergencies and 8-month partial-birth are the exact same thing?

 

[manifold]

JB,

Ludicrious hyperbole is the fallback position of an academic failure.

*points at the OP and its first sentence, which presents a dishonest absolutist statement*

*points at the rest of your posts in this thread, where you assume 'conservatism' means anarchism and total lack of meaningful Law*

S: (n) homicide (the killing of a human being by another human being)

Human being: Human; a member of the species homo sapiens

I'm wise enough to know that it's pointless to argue with someone too stupid to even know when he's been bested.

Or to put it another way, no amount of schooling is sufficient to teach a cat how to fly.

 

[uscitizen]

no amount of schooling is sufficient to teach a cat how to fly

but with the help of science and a catapult?

 

[RadiomanATL]

no amount of schooling is sufficient to teach a cat how to fly

but with the help of science and a catapult?

Bottle rockets.

Really big ones....

 

[JBeukema]

I am not pro abortion, just do not believe it is my right to tell others how to live their lives.

Really? So you wouldn't tell me to not rape your child, shoot your wife in the back of the head, shit on your porch, burn your house down, and steal your car? Because saying I'm not allowed to do that- let alone having the police stop me- is evil or something?

When is a person a person?

You're a retard. A=A. A person is always a person by definition- you've already defined it as such.

If you want to discuss how we determine when a human being is or should be considered a legal person and be subject to certain legal protections, there are threads about that. Non-troll threads where honest discussion has taken place.

 

[manifold]

no amount of schooling is sufficient to teach a cat how to fly

but with the help of science and a catapult?

being hurled through the air isn't the same as flying.

 

[manifold]

I am not pro abortion, just do not believe it is my right to tell others how to live their lives.

Really? So you wouldn't tell me to not rape your child, shoot your wife in the back of the head, shit on your porch, burn your house down, and steal your car? Because saying I'm not allowed to do that- let alone having the police stop me- is evil or something?

More ludicrous hyperbole that betrays the poster's inability to grasp a simple point.

 

[uscitizen]

no amount of schooling is sufficient to teach a cat how to fly

but with the help of science and a catapult?

Bottle rockets.

Really big ones....

Naah the hissing of the fuse scares the kitty.
A nice cuddly catapult pouch however....

some of them try to learn to fly. Not much good at it though.

 

[JBeukema]

I challenge you to convince the woman it's morality to have the baby. Because:

1) You can't tell a woman what to do with her body.

A baby is not her body.


By definition.


It's a whole other organism.


Biology 101: you fail it

2) The baby is entirely insider her and dependent on her. To just say it's the same as killing someone who isn't physically attached doesn't make sense. You can still think it's immoral, but it's not the same.

Dependence makes it okay? So... what about a 3-year-old?

What about killing your conjoined twin?

What about partial-birth or 8.5-month abortions?

3) The government is not only telling a woman she can't do something, like steal or rob. It's saying she must carry the baby the balance of nine months, she can't smoke or drink too much... There is no other case where government dictates control into the future.

Who in this thread is advocating making all abortions illegal?

Also... birth control...

 

[JBeukema]

True conservatives believe that a government that governs least governs best.

And that would naturally mean an opposition to a government forcing newly pregnant women to carry to term.

Alleged conservatives perform a lot of mental gymnastics to try to rationalize away this simple fact. But they're still wrong and they're not true conservatives.

And that's just the way it is.

Perhaps.

Unless that fetus is human and deserves the same Constitutional protections as are granted to any child.

female foetus is not a man


just sayin'


'all men are created equal...'

 

[JBeukema]

More ludicrous hyperbole that betrays the poster's inability to grasp a simple point.

Replying to the OP, I assume

 

[Zeip343]

Why is it that you insist on posting a "If you are a true liberal/concervative" threads? You realize that it's just an ideal, correct? These are a waist of space on the fucking forum.

 

[JBeukema]

I love when left-wing whackaloons attempt to define conservatism.

I love when people like yourself try to dismiss people like Mani who are far from Liberal by trying to label them as "left-wing whackaloons". Though it seems to me that you can't handle the fact that someone else has a different opinion from you and isn't a loon.

Whatever... abortion isn't a conservative vs. liberal issue. It's about how one regards human life.

End of story.

Buh bye.

Not quite that simple.

I don't think it has to be human. A theoretically intelligent alien species would be subject to the same arguments and reasoning.

Being human isn't necessary; being alive isn't sufficient- or necessary, in the case of a hypothetical sentient machine.


Has more to do with what constitutes a 'person' with a claim to certain base rights and protections.

 

[manifold]

More ludicrous hyperbole that betrays the poster's inability to grasp a simple point.

Replying to the OP, I assume

See what I mean?


Happy fails,
manifold

 

[JBeukema]

I disagree.

It all comes down to when you believe life begins.

Such is a scientific question and not subject to opinion or debate.

If you believe it begins at conception,

A new living organism comes into being with conception.

By definition.

Such is scientific fact and not open for argument or subject to opinon any more than whether Earth is flat or roughly spherical.

 

[RadiomanATL]

I disagree.

It all comes down to when you believe life begins.

Such is a scientific question and not subject to opinion or debate.

If you believe it begins at conception,

A new living organism comes into being with conception.

By definition.

Such is scientific fact and not open for argument or subject to opinon any more than whether Earth is flat or roughly spherical.

Revised: when human life begins.