True conservatives are pro-choice

[Gadawg73]

You and your crowd have laws on "controlled substances".

We do? What crowd is that?

You may want to trust government making the decision what mother "needed the abortion for the health of the mother" and which do not but as a conservative I DO NOT trust the government to make that decision.

You might trust the government to decide whether it was self defense, but I don't believe that the government has any right to make homicide a crime under any circumstances

I damn sure wouldn't trust your narrow minded opinion either.

Do you even know what my view is?

The problem with America now is so called wannabe conservatives that keep demanding more govermment and less liberty.

What do 'wannabe conservatives' have to do with anything- whatever they're supposed to be?

Do you want less government or more government?
What panel will determine which abortion was "legal" and which was not?
What bureaucrat will determine what criteria determines a "legal" abortion?
What bureaucrat will determine what doctors have committed an illegal abortion and which ones are legal?
What bureaucrat will sit on the 50 medical boards to determine what punishment, if any, is given to doctors that violate any one of the many laws in each 50 states?
Or do we now prosecute this in Federal court as murder?
Who draws that law and do you want government politicians making that law?

If you do not know that the power of the medical lobby WILL DOMINATE the prohibition of abortion then you are naive.
NO law stops abortion for middle class and wealthy. Never has and never will.

 

[mdn2000]

We do not want the government to make decisions for us yet they made the decision to approve killing another human being. It took more government to give us less government. It took more laws and court decisions to give us less government, we do not want the government to make decisions for us but now we have demanded the government mandate abortion, we have demanded government to approve the drugs used for abortion, we have demanded the government approve the procedure used. We also have provided the laws for the failed abortions. Seems to me it took a whole lot of Bureaucratic expansion of Government to give us less of that government and more liberty.

I am not pro abortion but I am for the government mandated abortion and bureaucracy that supports it Judicially and Medically.

Medically its a procedure that should never be done. Too many babies lived long enough to suffer, too many women die during the procedure, too many women can never have babies after an abortion.

Of course I am not Conservative because I understand there is a need of law and regulation to prevent some humans from harming themselves as well as others.

I find it hard to believe people argue for a "Choice" that can and does kill the mother.

We were told that we had to have abortion or women would just get an abortion in a back alley. Looks like we have legalized the "Back Alley". I also have to correct myself a bit. Seems planned parenthood does not even require a doctor, they are exempted from basic medical practices.

The illogic of abortion is astounding, I wish I never looked into the "Back Alley" of legalized abortion.

Planned Parenthood Hurts Women : Iowa Right To Life

On August 17, 2007, a 40 year-old woman almost died from a botched abortion at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Lincoln, Nebraska, in which Dr. Meryl Severson punctured her uterus, causing her to lose 80 percent of the blood in her body. Severson, who also performs abortions at Planned Parenthood clinics in Council Bluffs and Sioux City, had to resign from the University of Nebraska Medical Center in 2001, for performing an elective abortion there, against the rules.

Is Severson just any abortion butcher? No. He was Medical Director of Planned Parenthood of Nebraska and Council Bluffs at the time. He was one of Planned Parenthood’s experts.

Why was he allowed to still practice? Because Planned Parenthood clinics are not regulated. (Severson's medical license expired in June 2008 and he has not renewed it, according to the Iowa Board of Medicine website.)

Planned Parenthood does not have to meet the same medical, safety or sanitation standards as other outpatient surgical clinics.

 

[PixieStix]

Government these days must really be happy about Roe V Wade. It helps them to keep the masses in check

Next step euthanasia

"Get those daggumb bloodsucking Americans off our backs, And let them eat cake shees " ~Government~

 

[newpolitics]

False.

True conservatives also recognize that the securing of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is the role of government. True conservatives recognize that there are times where some interests overlap and come into conflict.

Thus, a true conservative might very well believe that the government has an obligation to preserve the life of the pre-born.

In other words, true conservatives are confused? I'd watch who you claim to be representing, because I don't think a 'true-conservative' would think what you are saying is very true.

 

[manifold]

I'd like to thank the many true conservatives that have thanked, repped or PM'd me to express their agreement with the premise of the OP. I'm very encouraged to find out that there are far more true conservatives on this board than I realized.

 

[Gadawg73]

True conservatives left the building with Goldwater and Reagan.
Reagan also adamantly opposed abortion but signed the bill into law in 1967 legalizing it for "health" reasons. Reagan knew that doctors would broadly interpret the word "health" in the bill before he signed it. Reagan knew that bureaucrats would also be pressured by the medical lobby for a broad definition of "health". Of course, as a politician and as all politicians do, Reagan blamed "liberal" judges and bureaucrats for the interpretations but everyone associated with that administration stated in recent years that Ronnie knew. Because Ronald Reagan was practical and most importantly, HE FAVORED LIMITED GOVERNMENT.
What many fail to open their eyes to is that IT IS DOCTORS that perform abortions.
Guess what other mess we are in these days? These are the folks that are the ONLY group of people in the world that want immunity from their negligence. And most of the so called "conservatives" support the doctors.
We are fast becoming a nation of VILLAGE IDIOTS.

 

[Gadawg73]

I'd like to thank the many true conservatives that have thanked, repped or PM'd me to express their agreement with the premise of the OP. I'm very encouraged to find out that there are far more true conservatives on this board than I realized.

I also thank you. I may disagree with you but respect your opinion and appreciate serious civil debate.
I have a 38 year history voting as a conservative and supporting conservative candidates. I was one of the ones along with Bob Barr that fought the ChristianCoalition and Pat Robertson when they attempted to take over our state convention in 1988. And guess what issue the Christian Coalition were using against George Bush, the MAN THAT WON THE GEORGIA PRIMARY? Christian Coalition had a front man that they had attempting torun the convention that had previous felony convictions. At the convention they shouted down all the other speakers other than CC speakers "With God as our co-pilot" chants. Same thing happened in TX that year with the take over of their convention. And Bush WAS FROM TEXAS.
God may be telling Pat Robertson and Ralph Reed to run for political office, as both have claimed that but:
TRUE conservatives run like hell from and fight preachers disguised as political candidates.

 

[JBeukema]

You and your crowd have laws on "controlled substances".

We do? What crowd is that?


You might trust the government to decide whether it was self defense, but I don't believe that the government has any right to make homicide a crime under any circumstances





Do you even know what my view is?

The problem with America now is so called wannabe conservatives that keep demanding more govermment and less liberty.

What do 'wannabe conservatives' have to do with anything- whatever they're supposed to be?

Do you want less government or more government?

I want good and effective government.

What panel will determine which abortion was "legal" and which was not?

We already have a system in place that does that job well enough. Perhaps you wish to make a case to the contrary? Where are all the women being imprisoned for medically necessary abortions?

the prohibition of abortion then you are naive.
NO law stops abortion for middle class and wealthy. Never has and never will.

'X should be legal because criminalizing X does not stop all instances of X'


Great argument, retard. Let's replace X with rape and apply your very same reasoning...

 

[JBeukema]

We do not want the government to make decisions for us yet they made the decision to approve killing another human being.

Noone's called for a government stamp of approval in any abortion in some 70 years.

I am not pro abortion but I am for the government mandated abortion

huh?

Medically its a procedure that should never be done.

You know nothing of medicine. What about a mother whose body produces antibodies to her second child?

What of some ectopic pregnancies?

 

[JBeukema]

Government these days must really be happy about Roe V Wade. It helps them to keep the masses in check

Next step euthanasia

Um... Roe v. Wade came after state-mandated negative eugenics in America


And RvW only says women can end their own progeny, so I'm not sure what's w/ you channeling the spirit of Eots

 

[Gadawg73]

We do? What crowd is that?


You might trust the government to decide whether it was self defense, but I don't believe that the government has any right to make homicide a crime under any circumstances





Do you even know what my view is?What do 'wannabe conservatives' have to do with anything- whatever they're supposed to be?

Do you want less government or more government?

I want good and effective government.

What panel will determine which abortion was "legal" and which was not?

We already have a system in place that does that job well enough. Perhaps you wish to make a case to the contrary? Where are all the women being imprisoned for medically necessary abortions?

the prohibition of abortion then you are naive.
NO law stops abortion for middle class and wealthy. Never has and never will.

'X should be legal because criminalizing X does not stop all instances of X'


Great argument, retard. Let's replace X with rape and apply your very same reasoning...

"retard"
You have just admitted defeat.
Lack of self discipline.

 

[Anguille]

Looks like JBeukema has had a meltdown and a smackdown all in one thread.

 

[Misty]

I think women should have the choice to kill their child. It is their body, however, stop pretending it's not a life just so women don't have to feel bad.

The choice comes with a heart beat.

 

[JBeukema]

I think women should have the choice to kill their child. It is their body, however, stop pretending it's not a life just so women don't have to feel bad.

The choice comes with a heart beat.

It is another distinct organism and therefore not her body


this is biology 101

 

[Gadawg73]

I think women should have the choice to kill their child. It is their body, however, stop pretending it's not a life just so women don't have to feel bad.

The choice comes with a heart beat.

You would judge every single woman for decisions they made not knowing any of the individual facts in each situation.
How convenient and shallow of you.

 

[Gadawg73]

Here is some bad news for those infatuated and obsessed with controlling women's reproductive lives:
We know that even if Roe v. Wade is overturned abortion will never, ever be illegal in America. Overturn Roe v. Wade and all you accomplish is placing the issue back to the states and the state legislatures. There will be some states, very few, that will outlaw abortion and a few others will put restrictions of some form or another on the procedure.
All that will be accomplished there would be to make it more difficult for poor women to travel to another state to have an abortion.
This will result to more children being born to women, and men as they are given a totally free pass by "right to lifers", who DO NOT want them and CAN NOT raise them properly.
For the rest all it will be is a simple matter of getting in a car or an airplane and going to the nearest state where abortion is legal.
Hang it up folks. Let's concentrate on limiting the powers of government, balancing the budget, property rights AND THE RULE OF LAW.
We are a nation OF LAWS, not men and their various religions.

 

[Publius1787]

True conservatives believe that a government that governs least governs best.

And that would naturally mean an opposition to a government forcing newly pregnant women to carry to term.

Alleged conservatives perform a lot of mental gymnastics to try to rationalize away this simple fact. But they're still wrong and they're not true conservatives.

And that's just the way it is.

You could be absolutly right. If republicans got their way and compleatly outlawed abortion it would be the death of their party for the following reasons.

1. Low income people have the most unwanted children and most abortions.
2. Low income people always vote for democrats to give them other peoples money.
3. If abortion was outlawed the increase of low income families on the government welfare dime would explode.
4. In 18 years democrats would make the republican party nonexistant and reinstate abortion.

Well, it certainly would benefit the republicans if they were "pro choice".

 

[Jroc]

True conservatives believe that a government that governs least governs best.

And that would naturally mean an opposition to a government forcing newly pregnant women to carry to term.

Alleged conservatives perform a lot of mental gymnastics to try to rationalize away this simple fact. But they're still wrong and they're not true conservatives.

And that's just the way it is.

You could be absolutly right. If republicans got their way and compleatly outlawed abortion it would be the death of their party for the following reasons.

1. Low income people have the most unwanted children and most abortions.
2. Low income people always vote for democrats to give them other peoples money.
3. If abortion was outlawed the increase of low income families on the government welfare dime would explode.
4. In 18 years democrats would make the republican party nonexistant and reinstate abortion.

Well, it certainly would benefit the republicans if they were "pro choice".

Wrong.. Conservatives believe it should be up to the states to pass their own laws regarding abortion. There is no Constitutional right to an abortion, that’s the conservative view. Of course most think that it is morally wrong as I do, People like me will help fight the practice of Abortion and decrease the number, Adoption is a good thing, and should be pushed as the preferred alternative. Planned Parenthood does just the opposite, they are a disgrace, and were founded by the racist Margaret Sanger. They should not receive any taxpayer money for anything.

 

[JBeukema]

Here is some bad news for those infatuated and obsessed with controlling women's reproductive lives:
We know that even if Roe v. Wade is overturned abortion will never, ever be illegal in America. Overturn Roe v. Wade and all you accomplish is placing the issue back to the states and the state legislatures. There will be some states, very few, that will outlaw abortion and a few others will put restrictions of some form or another on the procedure.
All that will be accomplished there would be to make it more difficult for poor women to travel to another state to have an abortion.
This will result to more children being born to women, and men as they are given a totally free pass by "right to lifers", who DO NOT want them and CAN NOT raise them properly.
For the rest all it will be is a simple matter of getting in a car or an airplane and going to the nearest state where abortion is legal.
Hang it up folks. Let's concentrate on limiting the powers of government, balancing the budget, property rights AND THE RULE OF LAW.
We are a nation OF LAWS, not men and their various religions.

'The Lower Tenth will wipe themselves out'

Sanger's promise....


then they complained that too many good, rich, white people were getting them and not enough black and brown people

go figure

 

[mdn2000]

I think women should have the choice to kill their child. It is their body, however, stop pretending it's not a life just so women don't have to feel bad.

The choice comes with a heart beat.

You would judge every single woman for decisions they made not knowing any of the individual facts in each situation.
How convenient and shallow of you.

And how even more shallow of you, to denigrate someone you know nothing of.

You read a lot into a simple statement before you were so critical, why did you not at least ask for a clarification before you assumed as much as you did.

How convenient, shallow, and awful rotten of you to pass judgement in such a way.