Zone1 Trinitarian _ Godheadian Questions Denied Answered ?

[seaofnails]

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thanks you for replying to my post, much appreciated - IF we look in the manuscripts

we find, the exact phrase " Holy Spirit " appears in the manuscripts ONLY 12 total times in the New Testament

in the other 84 instances in the New Testament - it is phrased as

" THE SPIRIT OF THE HOLY "
or as " SPIRIT OF HOLY "​

in the Old Testament, the exact phrase " Holy Spirit " does not exist anywhere

3 total times in the Old Testament - it is phrased as " SPIRIT OF HOLY "

Psa 51:11
Isa 63:10
Isa 63:11

the exact phrase " Holy Spirit " never appears in the manuscripts of the Old Testament - the term and personality implied upon the Spirit Of God as a second, separate person with a TITLE AND NAME simply does not exist in the way that Trinitarians have presented in the translation.​

its is just saying the Spirit " is of the Holy " - God - and not giving a title or name to a person in a tri - unity faith system.
the translators switched the words around at least 88 total times and even occasionally added or inserted the word " Holy " attaching the word Holy to the word Spirit - when the word Holy was not in the manuscript.

this was done deliberately - intentionally to insert the idea of a Trinity Faith System into the translation that does not exist in the manuscripts.

 

[seaofnails]

if you want we can go through the manuscripts together and see - I can show you

 

[Woodznutz]

You have to love these attempts at "GOTCHA" challenges when someone attempts to refute the Holy Spirit of God that inspired the Holy Scriptures. There is an assumption there is only one passage of scripture that deals with the truth that Jesus is sitting at the right of the Father in heaven (Hebrews 10:12)............but, (Acts 2explains in detail that Jesus is fulfilling the prophecy of Joel in having Jesus ascend to heaven on king David's throne to set in rule of spiritual Jerusalem..aka, the kingdom of God, the church given to Jesus by the Father (Matthew 16, 28:18-20), as both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), as prophesied in the old testament, i.e, The Law and the Prophets.

Simplicity as in Occam's Razor should be used to prohibit the warrantless pursuit of chasing rabbits down a hole that has many exists and is futile in the end, it begins with a logical fallacy and simply circles around logic and reason without success. Jesus Christ stated it best, eventually you become the blind attempting to lead the blind, "Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat and swallow a camel." -- Matthew 23:24

The scriptures are recorded by inspiration of God...i.e, the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit of God, literally meaning, the breath of God. (2 Tim. 3:16-17). There is no private interpretation of the Holy Scriptures (2 Peter 1:20).......the scriptures self interpret regardless of translation as the context and subject matter remain intact in any verbatim translation (even if there is a single mistranslated word, the proper word becomes obvious by its surrounding content and context........its truth that God reveals not the method of delivery. Why so simple? God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33).....that would be Satan, the god of this world's department and forte. (2 Cor. 4:4)


1. Both the O.T. and N.T. agree that God is ONE. (Deut. 6:4, Eph. 4:4-6). 2. The fact that God is one is established in the Holy Scriptures. Example: Malachi 2:10 explains, "Have we not one Father? Has not one God created us?"

3. These truthful statements make some claim that God does not consist as 3 entities with one common purpose. They claim there is no evidence in the scriptures to suggest that God has more than 1 personality.

4. This is not a truthful conclusion based upon the Holy Scriptures, regardless of how anyone attempts to cherry pick certain words and phrases away from the content and context of the whole chapter and verse..........they strain on a gnat and then swallow a camel.

5. Where is the evidence that the Messiah was predicted to come to earth and be called a Son of God and be called God at the same time? The first bit of evidence that reveals the Godhead as more than one entity is found in (Genesis 1:26-27), "Then God said, LET "US" MAKE MAN IN "OUR" IMAGE........" This one verse cannot be used alone to prove the "Multiplicity" of God......but it does exist, and it is not based upon the Royal Use of us or our........ Most importantly, the N.T agrees with Genesis 1. (John 1) states that Jesus existed as God before He came to earth to dwell among humanity, Jesus was with God and was God. (John 1:14) This suggests "Multiplicity of Personalities".

6. Thus, the concept of oneness can mean either 1 of 2 things. (A.) Either there is no plurality with God, or.......(B.) there is some plurality with the God of creation, as both testaments agree........we are created by One God, which can or cannot exist as separate but equal entities that are distinct but share a common goal such as A family is considered ONE FAMILY with different members but with a shared singular goal....or God does indeed consist of 3 family members, the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit.

7. There is evidence that God exists as 3 distinct members, The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit with a common oneness of total agreement in purpose and goal. Jesus/Messiah is referred to as The Son, Father and God at the same time in (Isaiah 9:6), speaking of the Messiah, the scripture declares that the coming Child/Messiah would be called "MIGHTY GOD". In (John 4:25), Jesus is speaking to a woman at the well......who states, "I know the Messiah is coming...." and in the next verse (vs 26), Jesus claims to be the Messiah, "I am He who speaks to you........" Again both testaments agree.........the Messiah will come in the form of a Son, and shall be God incarnate, spoken of directly as the equal to the Father. (Isaiah 9:6, John 1:14, Phil. 2:6)

8. Jesus the Son is worthy of worship. It is written in the O.T. that only God is to be worshiped as referenced by Jesus (Matt. 4:1). On numerous occasions, the scripture show that Jesus is being worshiped as God (Matthew 14:33)

9. O.T. the Messiah will be worshiped as God by Jew and gentile with the majority of Israel rejecting the Messiah
(Isa. 49:7, 53:1-3, Zech. 11:4-14)


10th and last point. Jesus the Son is equated with God (Jehovah). In the O.T scripture, the angels who stood around the throne and worshiped God. In Isaiah 6:3, its clear that Isaiah is having a vision from God with the same term for God/Jehovah used in verse 5. Forward to the N.T we find the Apostle John (John 12:38) in his gospel account referencing Isaiah 6:9-10 when he charges the Jews, "Jesus..........has done so many sings before them, and they did not believe........"

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and swims like a duck...............its neither a gnat nor a camel.

The Holy Spirit was sent into the New Testament church after the death of Jesus, but there is no evidence that the spirit is a third person in the Godhead, thus the 'Trinity' as commonly believed is false.

 

[seaofnails]

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Hey there,

thanks for taking time to reply



You are right, the " Spirit " of God is mentioned at least 50 times in the Old Testament

I was trying to explain is the phrase - :( HOLY SPIRIT - does not exist anywhere at all in the Hebrew Manuscripts - themselves. -

- never is the phrase - :( HOLY SPIRIT - found anywhere in the Old Testament

the Trinitarian Translators have used 3 verses in the Old Testament to INSERT the phrase - :( holy spirit
into the Old Testament


In the Old Testament, Trinitarians pretend that the phrase “ HOLY SPIRIT “ exists 3 total times.

Psa 51:11, - Isa 63:10, - Isa 63:11 -

​

Here are the manuscripts original message - word for word - from the Hebrew manuscripts

Psa 51:11

אל Do not - תשׁליכני take away from me - מלפניך your presence - ורוח and the Spirit - קדשׁך of holy - אל do not - תקח take - ממני׃ from me

meaning

DO NOT TAKE AWAY FROM ME YOUR PRESENCE AND THE SPIRIT OF HOLY DO NOT TAKE FROM ME.





Isa 63:10

והמה And they - מרו rebelled - ועצבו and they grieved - את his - רוח Spirit - קדשׁו of holy - ויהפך and turned - להם to them - לאויב as their enemy - הוא he then - נלחם׃ fought

meaning

AND THEY REBELLED AND THEY GRIEVED HIS SPIRIT OF HOLY AND TURNED TO THEM AS THEIR ENEMY HE THEN FOUGHT.




Isa 63:11

ויזכר Then he remembered - ימי the days - עולם of old, - משׁה Moses - עמו and his people - איה where - המעלם he brought them up - מים the sea - את him - רעי he shepherd - צאנו of the flock - איה where - השׂם he put - בקרבו in his midst - את his - רוח Spirit - קדשׁו׃ of Holy

meaning

THEN HE REMEMBERED THE DAYS OF OLD, MOSES AND HIS PEOPLE WHERE HE BROUGHT THEM UP THE SEA, HIM HE SHEPHERD OF THE FLOCK WHERE HE PUT IN HIS MIDST HIS SPIRIT OF HOLY.



Yes, these passages are referring to the Spirit of God, however, the Trinitarian Translators switched the words around changing the original manuscript wording saying - " " SPIRIT OF HOLY "



changing this, switching the words around to say " " HOLY SPIRIT " " in the translation


never is the phrase - :( HOLY SPIRIT - found anywhere in the Old Testament - - 3 total times the translators moved the words around to insert the the phrase - :( HOLY SPIRIT -

and

78 total times in the New Testament the Trinitarian Translators again switch the words around in the same exact way

or they just simply - ADD = INSERT - the word """ Holy """" into the verse to insert the phrase
" " HOLY SPIRIT " " in the translation when the word Holy is not even in the verse and this is done twice
​

 

[seaofnails]

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Others can decide what this means for them personally. I am just explaining the Manuscripts

it's not a big deal - just a single harmless aspect of many, many other alterations by design

but it just shows what was originally as message into what was altered and changed for Trinitarians to express what they feel and believe.

This is along with everything else that has been altered to promote the Trinitarian Faith System.

it shows a woven, controlling, deliberate, intentional, purposefully design of the Translators that alters and manipulates the original intent of the manuscript changing the simplicity - as how they were transmitted in their original meaning and context