Treason in America

[SAYIT]

No, it's because the "Palestinians" are nothing more than a proxy army for nations and organizations unwilling to suffer the consequences of attacking Israel.

That is a given. They are a sovereign nation surrounded by enemies and potential enemies. Our interests trump all other nations as well, except under Obama, who is essentially a shill for those who would destroy us.

You are correct on both points....The Palestinians are the Pawns for the entire ME because they now lack the military power or the nukes needed to successfully war on Israel...That gap is closing, and frankly, I can't see how these enemies of Western Colonialism can keep the Arabs from obtaining nukes unless Israel makes peace to the 67 lines they (Arabs) are willing to accept in their collective peace offerings.

How does Israel making peace (tough to do unilaterally) end the Arab/Muslim nuke parade? Pakistan has 'em, paid for by the Saudis who have publically stated that if Iran get nukes they will too (none of which is contingent upon Israel making peace).

""How does Israel making peace (tough to do unilaterally) end the Arab/Muslim nuke parade? Pakistan has 'em, paid for by the Saudis who have publically stated that if Iran get nukes they will too (none of which is contingent upon Israel making peace)."

The Arab League has made many offers for Israel, for recognition, exchange of Embassies and most importantly Trade...

Trade builds relationships and trust, it also should benefit the Economic Conditions for all parties.

But the Arabs have also made it clear that Jerusalem is holy to them and they will never give up E. Jerusalem...Neither will the Jews...

Internationalize it like the original UN Partition Plan, this way neither party loses anything...

Can this plan work today? The Arab Spring has radicalized the ME to frightening proportions, it is however worth the try, but I fear it may be too late....

Israel's Nukes can not protect her, because enemies in International Relations always want armament parity, and they succeed...Only a real peace acceptable by the Palestinians, and the Arab League can Israel mobilize with the Arabs to keep Iran off balance.

If peace is not made, the Nukes will.

You just danced around your bogus claim that Israeli/Palestinian peace would end the Arab quest for nukes. Even if we agree that Israel has had them for decades it only validates the fact that Iran's nuclear program is the real motivator. Arab/Muslim states clearly don't feel threatened by Israel but do feel threatened by Iran. Can you explain that?

The Sunnis are more worried that the Shiite will hit the fan, than about Israel.

So much so that some of Israel's neighbors have quietly become her allies. The need for regional security and stability may well trump all that Muslim fury at the Jews of Israel that some here promote.

Saudi Arabia is building a 600 mile long security fence (with razor wire) but not to defend against Israel.

 

[Coyote]

When you spy on your own country you have to be ready for the ultimate punishment. In some countries spies are just executed.

That is true, but I think solitary confinement is barbaric - 30 year sentance? Sure. But solitary IS torture.

I agree, solitary is one people on death row get. Which is why Pollard's punishment was excessive by comparison.

I agree that 7 yrs in solitary was excessive as was Vanunu's 11 years in solitary. It's barbaric imo (a lot of research has come out on the effects of solitary confinement on the human psyche).

I don't know if that is the norm for spies in prison????

 

[Coyote]

Mordechai Vanunu - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew: מרדכי ואנונו‎; born 14 October 1954), also known as John Crossman,[2][3] is an Israeli former nuclear technician who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986.[4][5] He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[4] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[4]


Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004, he became subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He says he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity from Judaism.[6]


In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusual even by the prosecution who expected a suspended sentence. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release on 2 July 2007, stating that "The organisation considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."[7] In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail.​

Vanunu has been characterized internationally as a whistleblower[8][9] and by Israel as a traitor.[10][11][12][13] Daniel Ellsberg has referred to him as "the preeminent hero of the nuclear era".[14]
​

I was not familiar with Vanunu so I looked him up. Rather interesting the striking disparities in treatment between Pollard and Vanunu. Eleven years in solitary confinement is barbaric to say the least. Why won't Israel let him leave yet clamor for Pollards release?

Because he kept babbling himself to death even after being released. We didn't check on him just because we felt like it, it's not like Israel doesn't have anything better do than chasing an old fart. But then he converted to Christianity and left to America where he was appreciated by them (imagine that) and says he doesn't want anything to do with Israel. In return we said, "Sayonara, asshole," gave him the boot and that was that.

Mordechai Vanunu is still being held in Israel, and is not free to leave

You're right...the more I read the more interesting I find Vanunu. Unlike Pollard, he was not a spy, he did not act out of greed, sell information for money or engage in illegal arms dealing. So why is he still prevented from leaving and living under such harsh restrictions? He served his sentence - they should let him leave.

Paying a price for blowing the whistle on Israel s nuclear weapons 30 years on News The Guardian

No one seriously claims that the man who was exhaustively debriefed by the Sunday Times nearly 30 years ago has any secrets up his sleeve. The decision to restrict his movements seems to be based more on a desire to inflict punishment on an unrepentant man than for security concerns. A pacifist who has urged the Palestinians to pursue their aims by non-violent means, he was not a spy but was driven to his actions by a horror of Hiroshima and the possibility of a nuclear war in the Middle East.​

Israel s Mordechai Vanunu is as much a hero as Edward Snowden Duncan Campbell Comment is free The Guardian

Writing in Ha'aretz last year, Aluf Benn drew parallels between the cases of Vanunu and Snowden, who both "had junior positions in defence organisations, in which they were exposed to sensitive national secrets. Both became convinced their employers were responsible for immoral acts and decided to violate their oaths of secrecy and tell the world about them." Benn suggested that "Israelis who support Snowden, and who see him as a freedom fighter who exposed the American empire in its hypocrisy and evil, need to relate to his Israeli predecessor in the same way".​

 

[Phoenall]

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...

No, it's because the "Palestinians" are nothing more than a proxy army for nations and organizations unwilling to suffer the consequences of attacking Israel.

Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

That is a given. They are a sovereign nation surrounded by enemies and potential enemies. Our interests trump all other nations as well, except under Obama, who is essentially a shill for those who would destroy us.

You are correct on both points....The Palestinians are the Pawns for the entire ME because they now lack the military power or the nukes needed to successfully war on Israel...That gap is closing, and frankly, I can't see how these enemies of Western Colonialism can keep the Arabs from obtaining nukes unless Israel makes peace to the 67 lines they (Arabs) are willing to accept in their collective peace offerings.

And once again you tout the collective suicide of Israel as if it will somehow cause world peace. Why don't you tout the 1923 International law that tells the arab muslims that Jordan is their homeland and not Israel and they should start talking along those lines. They might have to go begging to Jordan to be allowed in again and hand over the leaders that want to be like I.S.

The only enemies of western civilisation are the likes of you and the muslims that follow the koran

 

[Phoenall]

It won't happen, and it's common knowledge that Israel will take down the entire Middle East with them should it come to that, regardless of what weaponry their enemies may or may not have.

Good for them, poison the entire planet as vengeance to their Colonial conquest..Hey, like the Arabs like to say: Let Allah sort them out...

It may happen.

Don't forget that it was you that used the only two nuclear weapons, knowing what the aftereffects would be. And actually the arabs like to say Insh allah, which means it is the will of God. Do you blame the Israeli's when Iran has threatened to wipe the Jews out and to use their first nuclear weapon against Israel, regardless of the cost's in muslim lives. The Iranian spokesman said that if 1 million muslims had to die to kill one Jew then it was the price that must be paid.

 

[Phoenall]

I hope they put him on a one way trip to Israel and let them house and feed him. We have so many Zionist in high places in our gov what does it matter.

Ever thought that they are there because they best suited for the job, unlike Obama who is there out of misplaced racism and sympathy. Don't forget that Zionists can be any race, culture, creed or religion as they believe that the Jews deserve a homeland in their historical home and the ability to defend that land from attack.

 

[Phoenall]

Arnon Milchan - Forbes

He is the one who should have spent 30 years in prison, instead he is a billionaire, and lives in TLV.

Arnon Milchan. , we can't trust the Zionist, yesterday , today or tomorrow.

Another NAZI JEW HATER that uses Zionist out of context and as a racist attack. Why do you hate the Jews so much, is it because you are a muslim or because they are so much better than you will ever be.

 

[Phoenall]

Arnon Milchan - Forbes

He is the one who should have spent 30 years in prison, instead he is a billionaire, and lives in TLV.

Arnon Milchan. , we can't trust the Zionist, yesterday , today or tomorrow.

You seem to be really jealous of rich Jews. Do you have the same problem with Gates, Buffett or Trump?

He was a spy, and got rich while living in the US, he needs to be brought to prison and spend the rest of his life there, and he can take his money to prison and sit and look at it and pay men for sex, and take the rest to the grave with him. Also Israel should be fined heavily for his spying.

And what about US spying on the WEST, another episode of illegal phone tapping of Germany's leaders by the US is causing problems for the Obama administration. So should the US not also be fined very heavily for its spying, and even made bankrupt as an object lesson of what will happen the next time they are caught. Make the American people pay the price of their folly in electing a neo Marxist muslim into the most powerful position in the west.

 

[Phoenall]

So we should fine and go after ever Muslim country or Muslim society that harbors and breeds Islamic terrorist animals? I like that concept! How about we start with the 9-11 dancing Paliscumians?

How about we jail the dancing Israel's at the scene taking photos and jumping up and down?

And everyone else within the 5 mile radius who where taking pictures as well. Will you have enough Jails to house them all, or do you only want those 5 to be jailed because they were Jews ?

Your NAZI JEW HATRED is showing again

 

[Phoenall]

Yeah, where are we going to put the half a billion Muslims who danced, burned American flags, and ate sweets on 9-11 and thereafter? Middle of the Nevada desert maybe?

How about the PM of Israel, saying on the order of , This is good, this is very good, well its not good, but for Israel it is.
Seems like Israel is the one who made out the most, and a few others with lots invested in military stock.
Then we have the crooks who had everything hid in WTC 7, and well the owner who said to "pull it" also a jew.

What are you babbling on about now, you sound as if you are drunk or on a bad trip.

 

[Phoenall]

Yeah well every time you Muslims commit savagery it's good for Israel, because the world realizes what animals Israel has to deal with. Why is that a revelation?

Is the asylum escapee still braying that the Joooos did 9-11? I have to tell you, with supporters like Fatima Penepoop there is no need for Palestinians to have any enemies. Ha ha ha.

Muslims didn't do 9-11, good grief.

And you evidence is what ? some white supremacist Nazi site that "proves" the Jews did it. The evidence is overwhelming that it was engineered by muslims and that muslims from Saudi Arabia carried out the attack. Just as they also carried out the Pan Am attack, the Iranian embassy murders, Fort hood and the attempts in London and Glasgow.

 

[Phoenall]

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...


Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

The truth be known.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/o...that-israelis-just-dont-get-america.html?_r=0

181Comments

..."The Israeli government even issued Mr. Pollard an Israeli identity card and published a public admission that he spied for Israel – the opposite of what should have been done to speed his release. Mr. Pollard’s second wife, Esther Seitz, who married him after he was jailed and who holds extreme right-wing views, has been loudly leading this chorus. She even hired a lawyer who had previously been involved in the defense of Yigal Amir, who in 1995 assassinated Mr. Rabin, then the prime minister.

The nationalistic campaign, along with the big mouths of the confused Mr. Pollard and his extremist wife, are the main reason he is still in jail.

When Mr. Pollard is released in November, it will set off rejoicing in Israel. It’s not clear yet if President Obama will allow him to leave the United States and settle there. But if Israelis celebrate his release and possible “homecoming,” there must be a responsible adult in Israel who understands how turning a spy into a returning hero will be interpreted in Washington. Israelis must realize, even if 30 years too late, that Americans see Mr. Pollard as a traitor of the worst kind and that celebrating his release will only further harm Israel’s already strained relations with America.

He served 30 years, we can be happy for his release. Or is it fair only when American calls for release of killers out of Israeli prisons?

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...


Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

The truth be known.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/o...that-israelis-just-dont-get-america.html?_r=0

181Comments

..."The Israeli government even issued Mr. Pollard an Israeli identity card and published a public admission that he spied for Israel – the opposite of what should have been done to speed his release. Mr. Pollard’s second wife, Esther Seitz, who married him after he was jailed and who holds extreme right-wing views, has been loudly leading this chorus. She even hired a lawyer who had previously been involved in the defense of Yigal Amir, who in 1995 assassinated Mr. Rabin, then the prime minister.

The nationalistic campaign, along with the big mouths of the confused Mr. Pollard and his extremist wife, are the main reason he is still in jail.

When Mr. Pollard is released in November, it will set off rejoicing in Israel. It’s not clear yet if President Obama will allow him to leave the United States and settle there. But if Israelis celebrate his release and possible “homecoming,” there must be a responsible adult in Israel who understands how turning a spy into a returning hero will be interpreted in Washington. Israelis must realize, even if 30 years too late, that Americans see Mr. Pollard as a traitor of the worst kind and that celebrating his release will only further harm Israel’s already strained relations with America.

A lot of what pollard turned over was about how the US was able to spy on Israel.
US can spy on Israel, but Israel can't know what the US is doing in Israel?

Much of the information had been shared with the USSR so why not with Israel.

Why would the US withhold information that was relevant to Israeli defense?

I question this whole case, but technically what pollard did was against the law, the severity and penalty is more what I am concerned about. I think it was excessive relevant to the information that was shared.

US spying on Israel strained the relationship. US not sharing pertinent information with Israel strained the relationship.

Rather a double standard.

Hey we should not be sharing anything with Israel and that includes our taxes. He was a spy and some say the info was also sent to Russia, as we know there were many Jewish Russian Spies over here after WWII , the red scare. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg

So you would have no problem with Israel no longer sharing information with the US and saying after the East attacks " we knew that was going to happen, but because of the views of certain American's we kept it to ourselves" Then you will be able to gloat that you caused the deaths of thousands of Americans because you forced the Jews to stop spying for America. YOU FORGET THAT THE US IS THE BIGGEST SPY NETWORK IN THE WORLD AND HAS BEEN CAUGHT TOO MANY TIMES TO BE TRUSTED ANYMORE.

 

[Phoenall]

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...


Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

The truth be known.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/o...that-israelis-just-dont-get-america.html?_r=0

181Comments

..."The Israeli government even issued Mr. Pollard an Israeli identity card and published a public admission that he spied for Israel – the opposite of what should have been done to speed his release. Mr. Pollard’s second wife, Esther Seitz, who married him after he was jailed and who holds extreme right-wing views, has been loudly leading this chorus. She even hired a lawyer who had previously been involved in the defense of Yigal Amir, who in 1995 assassinated Mr. Rabin, then the prime minister.

The nationalistic campaign, along with the big mouths of the confused Mr. Pollard and his extremist wife, are the main reason he is still in jail.

When Mr. Pollard is released in November, it will set off rejoicing in Israel. It’s not clear yet if President Obama will allow him to leave the United States and settle there. But if Israelis celebrate his release and possible “homecoming,” there must be a responsible adult in Israel who understands how turning a spy into a returning hero will be interpreted in Washington. Israelis must realize, even if 30 years too late, that Americans see Mr. Pollard as a traitor of the worst kind and that celebrating his release will only further harm Israel’s already strained relations with America.

He served 30 years, we can be happy for his release. Or is it fair only when American calls for release of killers out of Israeli prisons?

If anything is really known about why peace has alluded the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the Power of the political influence that Israel has over American Politics and Security via AIPAC and others...


Jonathan Pollard: Israel making a hero out of this dirt-bag is indicative that Israel's interests above all trump America's...

The truth be known.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/o...that-israelis-just-dont-get-america.html?_r=0

181Comments

..."The Israeli government even issued Mr. Pollard an Israeli identity card and published a public admission that he spied for Israel – the opposite of what should have been done to speed his release. Mr. Pollard’s second wife, Esther Seitz, who married him after he was jailed and who holds extreme right-wing views, has been loudly leading this chorus. She even hired a lawyer who had previously been involved in the defense of Yigal Amir, who in 1995 assassinated Mr. Rabin, then the prime minister.

The nationalistic campaign, along with the big mouths of the confused Mr. Pollard and his extremist wife, are the main reason he is still in jail.

When Mr. Pollard is released in November, it will set off rejoicing in Israel. It’s not clear yet if President Obama will allow him to leave the United States and settle there. But if Israelis celebrate his release and possible “homecoming,” there must be a responsible adult in Israel who understands how turning a spy into a returning hero will be interpreted in Washington. Israelis must realize, even if 30 years too late, that Americans see Mr. Pollard as a traitor of the worst kind and that celebrating his release will only further harm Israel’s already strained relations with America.

A lot of what pollard turned over was about how the US was able to spy on Israel.
US can spy on Israel, but Israel can't know what the US is doing in Israel?

Much of the information had been shared with the USSR so why not with Israel.

Why would the US withhold information that was relevant to Israeli defense?

I question this whole case, but technically what pollard did was against the law, the severity and penalty is more what I am concerned about. I think it was excessive relevant to the information that was shared.

US spying on Israel strained the relationship. US not sharing pertinent information with Israel strained the relationship.

Rather a double standard.

Hey we should not be sharing anything with Israel and that includes our taxes. He was a spy and some say the info was also sent to Russia, as we know there were many Jewish Russian Spies over here after WWII , the red scare. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg

This is why dual citizenship laws need to be repealed, you cannot serve two Masters...

Personally 30 years is fair, but he should be paroled in a house arrest for the remainder of his natural life.

Traitors should be no-one's hero!

That would hit the muslims the hardest as they are the ones with dual. triple and even quadruple nationalities. So yes it should be made illegal for all migrants to keep their original nationality, and shot if they are caught, then dumped in a pit facing north and smothered with pig entrails and quicklime

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

They might have to go begging to Jordan to be allowed in again

Jordan doesn't want them, nor anyone else over there. They are a proxy army for the Islamists, nothing more.

 

[Phoenall]

They might have to go begging to Jordan to be allowed in again

Jordan doesn't want them, nor anyone else over there. They are a proxy army for the Islamists, nothing more.

And still the uninformed and brainwashed support their terrorism and violence all because the Jews are involved.

 

[Daniyel]

..."The Israeli government even issued Mr. Pollard an Israeli identity card and published a public admission that he spied for Israel – the opposite of what should have been done to speed his release. Mr. Pollard’s second wife, Esther Seitz, who married him after he was jailed and who holds extreme right-wing views, has been loudly leading this chorus. She even hired a lawyer who had previously been involved in the defense of Yigal Amir, who in 1995 assassinated Mr. Rabin, then the prime minister.

There you go folks, propaganda for the masses..
"The Israeli government 'EVEN' issued an Israeli ID"
Obviously for the reason he spied, right? Wrong, but because they had to.

Next there's the part when past and future all mixed up but nobody needs to know about it right? Israel issued official apologies after admitting Pollard spied for Israel for the reason the US held crucial intelligence for Israel, and the US kept Israel out just like Obama did with Iran, in a way it was worth risking the relations with the US, 16 years ago.
Here is the part where you get to hear about his wife the extremist, please, then the punch line with Rabin to mark the '"lost hope" milestone, nice.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

..."The Israeli government even issued Mr. Pollard an Israeli identity card and published a public admission that he spied for Israel – the opposite of what should have been done to speed his release. Mr. Pollard’s second wife, Esther Seitz, who married him after he was jailed and who holds extreme right-wing views, has been loudly leading this chorus. She even hired a lawyer who had previously been involved in the defense of Yigal Amir, who in 1995 assassinated Mr. Rabin, then the prime minister.

There you go folks, propaganda for the masses..
"The Israeli government 'EVEN' issued an Israeli ID"
Obviously for the reason he spied, right? Wrong, but because they had to.

Next there's the part when past and future all mixed up but nobody needs to know about it right? Israel issued official apologies after admitting Pollard spied for Israel for the reason the US held crucial intelligence for Israel, and the US kept Israel out just like Obama did with Iran, in a way it was worth risking the relations with the US, 16 years ago.
Here is the part where you get to hear about his wife the extremist, please, then the punch line with Rabin to mark the '"lost hope" milestone, nice.

It was 30 years ago. America has spied on France, Germany and Brazil--for what reasons, I don't know.

 

[rylah]

Treason in US.

 

[pbel]

..."The Israeli government even issued Mr. Pollard an Israeli identity card and published a public admission that he spied for Israel – the opposite of what should have been done to speed his release. Mr. Pollard’s second wife, Esther Seitz, who married him after he was jailed and who holds extreme right-wing views, has been loudly leading this chorus. She even hired a lawyer who had previously been involved in the defense of Yigal Amir, who in 1995 assassinated Mr. Rabin, then the prime minister.

There you go folks, propaganda for the masses..
"The Israeli government 'EVEN' issued an Israeli ID"
Obviously for the reason he spied, right? Wrong, but because they had to.

Next there's the part when past and future all mixed up but nobody needs to know about it right? Israel issued official apologies after admitting Pollard spied for Israel for the reason the US held crucial intelligence for Israel, and the US kept Israel out just like Obama did with Iran, in a way it was worth risking the relations with the US, 16 years ago.
Here is the part where you get to hear about his wife the extremist, please, then the punch line with Rabin to mark the '"lost hope" milestone, nice.

It was 30 years ago. America has spied on France, Germany and Brazil--for what reasons, I don't know.

There is a huge difference between spying and TREASON!!!

 

[pbel]

..."The Israeli government even issued Mr. Pollard an Israeli identity card and published a public admission that he spied for Israel – the opposite of what should have been done to speed his release. Mr. Pollard’s second wife, Esther Seitz, who married him after he was jailed and who holds extreme right-wing views, has been loudly leading this chorus. She even hired a lawyer who had previously been involved in the defense of Yigal Amir, who in 1995 assassinated Mr. Rabin, then the prime minister.

There you go folks, propaganda for the masses..
"The Israeli government 'EVEN' issued an Israeli ID"
Obviously for the reason he spied, right? Wrong, but because they had to.

Next there's the part when past and future all mixed up but nobody needs to know about it right? Israel issued official apologies after admitting Pollard spied for Israel for the reason the US held crucial intelligence for Israel, and the US kept Israel out just like Obama did with Iran, in a way it was worth risking the relations with the US, 16 years ago.
Here is the part where you get to hear about his wife the extremist, please, then the punch line with Rabin to mark the '"lost hope" milestone, nice.

The propaganda is your favorite tune...the scumbag Pollard was spying for Israel and he not only spied for Israel and other nations for MONEY he committed TREASON and should have been executed!